JF-17 Block-3 -- Updates, News & Discussion

[ARMalik]

While I respect all views expressed here regarding our country’s relationship with the US (and especially our military’s interaction with the US leaders – both civilians as well as the military). But I think most of these views are based on partial picture of the prevailing scenario. To be honest we need to evaluate our own position (strengths and weaknesses) before we can have a meaningful critical view of our relations with the US. To start with, think of a newly born country that virtually had no resources even to run the country. To make things worst, we had (and still have it) a severed enemy – much more resourceful and many times bigger than us - across the newly established borders. The enemy was trying/exploiting every single opportunity (fair or otherwise) to bleed us, make us fail, and get their dream of Akhand Bharat fulfilled. The enemy, in the first placed, agreed on the partition only after ensuring that we would fail as a country and beg for merger back to mother India. So, during the years after the independence 1947, we were struggling for our survival. In such a dire situation, the US offered us some aid in both economic and military terms and we happily accepted that. Of course, uncle Sam had his own agenda. But anyone would accept a helping hand in the then prevailing situation. While it’s true that our military leadership then was very much westernized but at the same time, most, if not all, of military officers were fully charged with patriotic feelings just like the rest of their countrymen. We made many mistakes too (such as missing 1962 opportunity to wrest J&K from India) but the net gain for us was the fact that we survived as a nation till 1971.

The deep wound that we got in 1971 re-energized us and as a result we started our national journey with a stronger determination. Bouncing back (i.e. becoming a nuclear power and bringing stability in the country despite all enemy subversion, insurgencies, and terrorism) in about a decade after losing half of country and humiliating defeat is no less than a miracle. But only to face one of the two superpowers at our doorsteps. To the shock for the rest of the world (including friends and foes), we decided and actually all alone stood up against the mighty USSR in Afghanistan. And, by the grace of Allah SwT Almighty, we were able to turn the tide on the invading bear and forced it to beg for safe return to its borders. Almost similar story of bravery, planning, fighting, and determination was repeated during 2001-2021 period.

All these achievements are no less of a feat. Our deeper state is not that cowardly, short-sighted, or stupid. Why we are so depressed by the current situation? We are still under the offense by our unified enemies. We need vision, intelligent actions, and solid determination on all fronts of war – diplomatic, economic, military, etc. I think IK government left much to be desired on the first two fronts. Our closest allies were alienated. We were making new foes just because of our stupidity. We needed more actions – under well thought out policies – rather than silly rhetoric. We needed a reckless diplomatic discourse the least. I hope the new government at least rectifies some of the harmful ripples created by the IK government.

You got to be kidding yourself with all the lame excuses you are presenting. When a country called Bangladesh is economically stronger than Pakistan, and have more than US 45 Billion foreign reserves THEN EVEN A 2-YEAR OLD KID WOULD KNOW BETTER THAT THIS BANANA REPUBLIC OF PAKISTAN IS FUKED (excuse the word) !

 

[Trango Towers]

While I respect all views expressed here regarding our country’s relationship with the US (and especially our military’s interaction with the US leaders – both civilians as well as the military). But I think most of these views are based on partial picture of the prevailing scenario. To be honest we need to evaluate our own position (strengths and weaknesses) before we can have a meaningful critical view of our relations with the US. To start with, think of a newly born country that virtually had no resources even to run the country. To make things worst, we had (and still have it) a severed enemy – much more resourceful and many times bigger than us - across the newly established borders. The enemy was trying/exploiting every single opportunity (fair or otherwise) to bleed us, make us fail, and get their dream of Akhand Bharat fulfilled. The enemy, in the first placed, agreed on the partition only after ensuring that we would fail as a country and beg for merger back to mother India. So, during the years after the independence 1947, we were struggling for our survival. In such a dire situation, the US offered us some aid in both economic and military terms and we happily accepted that. Of course, uncle Sam had his own agenda. But anyone would accept a helping hand in the then prevailing situation. While it’s true that our military leadership then was very much westernized but at the same time, most, if not all, of military officers were fully charged with patriotic feelings just like the rest of their countrymen. We made many mistakes too (such as missing 1962 opportunity to wrest J&K from India) but the net gain for us was the fact that we survived as a nation till 1971.

The deep wound that we got in 1971 re-energized us and as a result we started our national journey with a stronger determination. Bouncing back (i.e. becoming a nuclear power and bringing stability in the country despite all enemy subversion, insurgencies, and terrorism) in about a decade after losing half of country and humiliating defeat is no less than a miracle. But only to face one of the two superpowers at our doorsteps. To the shock for the rest of the world (including friends and foes), we decided and actually all alone stood up against the mighty USSR in Afghanistan. And, by the grace of Allah SwT Almighty, we were able to turn the tide on the invading bear and forced it to beg for safe return to its borders. Almost similar story of bravery, planning, fighting, and determination was repeated during 2001-2021 period.

All these achievements are no less of a feat. Our deeper state is not that cowardly, short-sighted, or stupid. Why we are so depressed by the current situation? We are still under the offense by our unified enemies. We need vision, intelligent actions, and solid determination on all fronts of war – diplomatic, economic, military, etc. I think IK government left much to be desired on the first two fronts. Our closest allies were alienated. We were making new foes just because of our stupidity. We needed more actions – under well thought out policies – rather than silly rhetoric. We needed a reckless diplomatic discourse the least. I hope the new government at least rectifies some of the harmful ripples created by the IK government.

What a waffle???
Wtf had that got to do with the imported government

 

[Ali_Baba]

Ever since the first Pak related defence forums sprouted in the early days of the internet, I had been avidly following them in my young days. I was a contributor to the now defunct Pakdef, but till recent have been a lurker on this forum since it popped up. I have had an interest in defense matters as well as having worked as a consultant to a middle eastern security agency. Ever since the current regime was installed, and I seem to have completely lost interest in pak defense related matters and equipment. Why, because the generals have shown their true colors and who their loyalty is to. What is the purpose of all these hi tech toys when the military leadership will roll over from the orders of a single junior state department official.
The US does not appear to have any concern or fears of Pak nuclear program as they used to, why because they probably know everything they need to know via traitors in our military who will sell their souls for a green card. Heck even previous heads of Pak strategic forces are living in the US. What did they compromise to get the green card.
When did all this treachery start, from the time Musharraf or afterwards, or has it always been there..
The Pak foot soldier and junior officers are second to none, but army top leadership leave a lot to be desired…

I too was on Pakdef when it started ( well - i started on the "Defenders of Pakistan" site first! ) and my feelings are the same as yours right now.

 

[m52k85]

Ever since the first Pak related defence forums sprouted in the early days of the internet, I had been avidly following them in my young days. I was a contributor to the now defunct Pakdef, but till recent have been a lurker on this forum since it popped up. I have had an interest in defense matters as well as having worked as a consultant to a middle eastern security agency. Ever since the current regime was installed, and I seem to have completely lost interest in pak defense related matters and equipment. Why, because the generals have shown their true colors and who their loyalty is to. What is the purpose of all these hi tech toys when the military leadership will roll over from the orders of a single junior state department official.
The US does not appear to have any concern or fears of Pak nuclear program as they used to, why because they probably know everything they need to know via traitors in our military who will sell their souls for a green card. Heck even previous heads of Pak strategic forces are living in the US. What did they compromise to get the green card.
When did all this treachery start, from the time Musharraf or afterwards, or has it always been there..
The Pak foot soldier and junior officers are second to none, but army top leadership leave a lot to be desired…

I used to count deployments, movement of squadrons etc, I was so interested. Not anymore..

 

[JamD]

Thread derailing ?

You are right. Mods can you please clean this thread up. @Jango
Sorry, I participated in the derailing too. Continuing discussion elsewhere.

 

[Al_Muhannad]

Ever since the first Pak related defence forums sprouted in the early days of the internet, I had been avidly following them in my young days. I was a contributor to the now defunct Pakdef, but till recent have been a lurker on this forum since it popped up. I have had an interest in defense matters as well as having worked as a consultant to a middle eastern security agency. Ever since the current regime was installed, and I seem to have completely lost interest in pak defense related matters and equipment. Why, because the generals have shown their true colors and who their loyalty is to. What is the purpose of all these hi tech toys when the military leadership will roll over from the orders of a single junior state department official.
The US does not appear to have any concern or fears of Pak nuclear program as they used to, why because they probably know everything they need to know via traitors in our military who will sell their souls for a green card. Heck even previous heads of Pak strategic forces are living in the US. What did they compromise to get the green card.
When did all this treachery start, from the time Musharraf or afterwards, or has it always been there..
The Pak foot soldier and junior officers are second to none, but army top leadership leave a lot to be desired…

The cancer runs deep

Ever since the first Pak related defence forums sprouted in the early days of the internet, I had been avidly following them in my young days. I was a contributor to the now defunct Pakdef, but till recent have been a lurker on this forum since it popped up. I have had an interest in defense matters as well as having worked as a consultant to a middle eastern security agency. Ever since the current regime was installed, and I seem to have completely lost interest in pak defense related matters and equipment. Why, because the generals have shown their true colors and who their loyalty is to. What is the purpose of all these hi tech toys when the military leadership will roll over from the orders of a single junior state department official.
The US does not appear to have any concern or fears of Pak nuclear program as they used to, why because they probably know everything they need to know via traitors in our military who will sell their souls for a green card. Heck even previous heads of Pak strategic forces are living in the US. What did they compromise to get the green card.
When did all this treachery start, from the time Musharraf or afterwards, or has it always been there..
The Pak foot soldier and junior officers are second to none, but army top leadership leave a lot to be desired…

The idea of Pakistan is far more important than some desi-kemalist. I study warfare not out of love for our military even though I am not related to any thing remotely military in my personal life. It is the duty of all able-bodied muslims to prepare for the future wars in whatever capacity they can.

 

[Iron Shrappenel]

You are right. Mods can you please clean this thread up. @Jango
Sorry, I participated in the derailing too. Continuing discussion elsewhere.

We're just turning every thread into this man .. It's sad we aren't seeing any solid news from PAC but that doesn't mean we turn the place into a quagmire of our personal thoughts.

 

[GriffinsRule]

Ever since the first Pak related defence forums sprouted in the early days of the internet, I had been avidly following them in my young days. I was a contributor to the now defunct Pakdef, but till recent have been a lurker on this forum since it popped up. I have had an interest in defense matters as well as having worked as a consultant to a middle eastern security agency. Ever since the current regime was installed, and I seem to have completely lost interest in pak defense related matters and equipment. Why, because the generals have shown their true colors and who their loyalty is to. What is the purpose of all these hi tech toys when the military leadership will roll over from the orders of a single junior state department official.
The US does not appear to have any concern or fears of Pak nuclear program as they used to, why because they probably know everything they need to know via traitors in our military who will sell their souls for a green card. Heck even previous heads of Pak strategic forces are living in the US. What did they compromise to get the green card.
When did all this treachery start, from the time Musharraf or afterwards, or has it always been there..
The Pak foot soldier and junior officers are second to none, but army top leadership leave a lot to be desired…

Feel exactly the same way as well as many others I suspect. You can tell by the lack of any meaningful posts and topics lately

 

[HRK]

same feeling here

I have deleted my post quoted above as It was off-topic

 

[denel]

I understand your point, but the thing that escapes me is -- why don't they care about their country enough to make the right decisions?

There's inequality, classism, injustice, etc, in the United States too. Yet, at a macro-level, the U.S. has kept moving forward. The leaders of the U.S. rarely made self-destructive (for a nation) decisions. The big one was probably opening up to China, but it was a mistake in hindsight.

What's missing among Pakistan's leaders (especially the Army leadership)? How do they lack vision? Why do they lack the ambition to "look outwards" and compete with other nations?

It is called lining up your retirement fund - preferably have an 'abroad' place plus a nice 'farm' house.

When you have this mindset nurtured as a 'for profit' - you have sold out the entire brass. Best is to take off your uniform and donne on the Don suite and ask people to kiss your proverbial ring.

Frankly, this malaise I have seen for decades in all the limited dealings i have had with some of your brass.

Man Zia was a great man in comparison. Those were soldiers who feared noone.

 

[Rafael]

Feel exactly the same way as well as many others I suspect. You can tell by the lack of any meaningful posts and topics lately

Same here. Don't give a rat's *** anymore about anything.

 

[denel]

Same here. Don't give a rat's *** anymore about anything.

my friend. i am feeling the same way; not sure what has changed but entire forum has gone - no mojo left.

 

[Rafael]

my friend. i am feeling the same way; not sure what has changed but entire forum has gone - no mojo left.

I have been following PAF's and JFTs development since I was a boy back in 2005-06 with several hours on the forum each day. Now I dont visit for several days straight. Have been reading books since than. Fiction is the only thing that makes sense to me these days.

 

[Kaleem.61]

JF-17 Block 3 Fighter Has J-20 ‘DNA’: Which 5G Technologies Give it an Edge? ​

The JF-17 Block 3’s new avionics suite including its controls and cockpit displays, notably bear a resemblance to those of the J-20. The fighter’s helmet mounted sights and heads up displays are ahead of those of early fifth generation fighter models, and allow it to capitalise on a new range of armaments which are deployed by both it and the J-20. Other notable advances the new JF-17 variant benefits from include a slightly larger high composite airframe, a more powerful engine, a reduced radar cross section and a new active electronically scanned array (AESA) radar. Materials and sensors on the aircraft are thought to have benefitted greatly from the advanced state of the Chinese military aviation industry needed to develop fifth generation aircraft. Beyond its sensors, its new air to air missiles the PL-15 and PL-10 provide an overwhelming advantage over both prior JF-17 variants and standard fourth generation aircraft such as the F-16C, Mirage 2000 or J-10B. The PL-15 is the only active non-Japanese air to air missile confirmed to use an AESA radar for guidance, and although estimates of its range vary widely from 200-300km even the lower estimate would still provide a considerable advantage over Western and Russian missile designs. The new American AIM-120D has an estimated 160-180km range, while the much more widely used AIM-120C relied on by Pakistan's F-16 units can engage at only 100km. The R-77-1 used by the Russian Air Force from 2015 can engage at 110km, which is similar to the estimated range of India's ASTRA missile currently under development.

Pakistan’s Dangerous New JF-17 Block 3 Fighter Has J-20 ‘DNA’: Which Fifth Generation Technologies Give it an Edge?

Following its first flight in December 2019 the JF-17 Block 3 fighter program has shown signs of considerable progress. The fighter is widely expected to enter service

militarywatchmagazine.com

I have written extensively on this forum many a years ago that Pakistan nucs have been neutered.

Very sad 2 9 and alarming as well. I just open the thread to read some good stuff and here.....

IK may not be an ideal choice and have committed some mistakes but far far better than the ones which have been imposed to us as of now.

Please avoid it. Calculate the votes of ppp + pmln . We have nothing to discuss but politics we are just st***d like hell.
In office, in restaurants, attending ceremonies and in family gatherings all around we have one sh***t. I don't even watch news channels

 

[NA71]

JF-17 Block 3 Fighter Has J-20 ‘DNA’: Which 5G Technologies Give it an Edge? ​

The JF-17 Block 3’s new avionics suite including its controls and cockpit displays, notably bear a resemblance to those of the J-20. The fighter’s helmet mounted sights and heads up displays are ahead of those of early fifth generation fighter models, and allow it to capitalise on a new range of armaments which are deployed by both it and the J-20. Other notable advances the new JF-17 variant benefits from include a slightly larger high composite airframe, a more powerful engine, a reduced radar cross section and a new active electronically scanned array (AESA) radar. Materials and sensors on the aircraft are thought to have benefitted greatly from the advanced state of the Chinese military aviation industry needed to develop fifth generation aircraft. Beyond its sensors, its new air to air missiles the PL-15 and PL-10 provide an overwhelming advantage over both prior JF-17 variants and standard fourth generation aircraft such as the F-16C, Mirage 2000 or J-10B. The PL-15 is the only active non-Japanese air to air missile confirmed to use an AESA radar for guidance, and although estimates of its range vary widely from 200-300km even the lower estimate would still provide a considerable advantage over Western and Russian missile designs. The new American AIM-120D has an estimated 160-180km range, while the much more widely used AIM-120C relied on by Pakistan's F-16 units can engage at only 100km. The R-77-1 used by the Russian Air Force from 2015 can engage at 110km, which is similar to the estimated range of India's ASTRA missile currently under development.

Pakistan’s Dangerous New JF-17 Block 3 Fighter Has J-20 ‘DNA’: Which Fifth Generation Technologies Give it an Edge?

Following its first flight in December 2019 the JF-17 Block 3 fighter program has shown signs of considerable progress. The fighter is widely expected to enter service

militarywatchmagazine.com

Very sad 2 9 and alarming as well. I just open the thread to read some good stuff and here.....

Please avoid it. Calculate the votes of ppp + pmln . We have nothing to discuss but politics we are just st***d like hell.
In office, in restaurants, attending ceremonies and in family gatherings all around we have one sh***t. I don't even watch news channels

It looks all funny headlines "JF-17 Block 3 Fighter Has J-20 ‘DNA" after knowing that our actual slavery rich DNA.

Look and analyse the deep divide that have been successfully created between our nation, between institutions,between provinces

have you ever felt the strong civil-military divide as we see & feel today?