JF-17 Block-3 -- Updates, News & Discussion

[Deino]

You'll be surprised... you'll be surprised....

As it seem, unfortunately yes:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1460353546805821445

 

[Irfan Baloch]

I do wonder though what would had happened if our planners had chosen to invest in "farming" this IP. The realist/pessimist in me thinks something like this would have happened:
View attachment 793547

UAE and KSA have shown the capacity to make smart investments and manage them well. We have not.

this is why we are stuck at square 1 forever. this handicap is national and doesn't mater if one is in uniform or civvies.

 

[Trango Towers]

View attachment 793586
Maybe posted earlier!

Length 7 ft ??

 

[Aesterix]

Length 7 ft ??

Yeah. It's remote control .

 

[khanasifm]

Who ever took pic could have take the whole poster pic revealing everything ??

 

[khanasifm]

Number of hard points increased to 8 from 6.

It was released long time ago from 7 to 8, 8th being under intake for pods nothing new here

main things are aesa, hmd, more internal fuel, weapons package and ew suite

 

[CodeforFood]

Guess who else visited OAC Kamra at Dubai expo.

View attachment 793697

Pakistan ertugrul?

 

[Thorough Pro]

whoever did the proofreading on this should be court-martialled for the negligence of duties. Officially Pakistan uses metric system of measurements, why are all the parameters in foot-pound system here? Length 7 feet, max engine thrust 1.9 lbs

View attachment 793586
Maybe posted earlier!

 

[mudas777]

Yes and the dual racks

Since you asked for it and was very kind of you to ask, forgetting one thing we are a nation which is hard to please.
Any hope of having the triple ejectors with the plane?
Icing on the cake will be the conformal tanks and a shoulder fire missile for the pilot as an extra point to make it even points. . .

 

[luciferdd]

Under whelming to say the least. G limits not increased, thrust not increased, Mach no. not increased, thrust to weight ratio was being reported as above 1 previously now it is confirmed that it never increased. Took 2016 - 2021 just to upgrade a radar, some sensors and 1 extra hard point? 5 years in making for a new block, 2 decades in making for a jet that still hasn't reached its complete potential. I think Chinese also had a conflict of interest there. Why would they improve JF17 beyond a certain point when they can just pitch their J10-C for sale? Goes to show importance of not becoming dependant on 1 supplier. Pakistan should take 3 important steps in future. 1. Start aggressive indigenisation 2. Invest in Turkish alliance as well. 3 Keep working with Chinese. If 1 fails to deliver we'd have other options to fall back on.

The problems you mentioned are all about the engines,and the engines come from Russia it's nothing about China.Paf choices the RD93MA,then you have to wait for it.

 

[iLION12345_1]

Under whelming to say the least. G limits not increased, thrust not increased, Mach no. not increased, thrust to weight ratio was being reported as above 1 previously now it is confirmed that it never increased. Took 2016 - 2021 just to upgrade a radar, some sensors and 1 extra hard point? 5 years in making for a new block, 2 decades in making for a jet that still hasn't reached its complete potential. I think Chinese also had a conflict of interest there. Why would they improve JF17 beyond a certain point when they can just pitch their J10-C for sale? Goes to show importance of not becoming dependant on 1 supplier. Pakistan should take 3 important steps in future. 1. Start aggressive indigenisation 2. Invest in Turkish alliance as well. 3 Keep working with Chinese. If 1 fails to deliver we'd have other options to fall back on.

So they upgraded literally everything except the engine, and you’re still not happy. Just great.

You just pointed out the few factors that are strictly related to the engine to make it seem like they’ve done nothing to the aircraft, completely ignoring the fact that that it can carry an entire Ton of ordinance more than block 1, the new Avionics, the new radar, the new missiles, the new MAWS, new RWRs, the new EW suite, the new HUD, the new HMD/S, an extra hardpoint, the new airframe makeup, increased fuel capacity (that’s how the range is still the same with more weight)…need I go on?

It’s not that they haven’t done enough, it’s that you don’t know enough.
they’ve upgraded nearly every single aspect of the aircraft, F-16 has gotten new blocks with a quarter of the upgrades this thing has.

And this jets limitations have Absolutely nothing to do with the J-10C, no matter how good you make it, the J-10C will always be significantly better, why? Because it’s much bigger. There is no conflict of interest given China has been pushing the JF-17 for export literally everywhere but has not marketed the J-10C At all.

China has already made a new engine for the JF-17, in-fact China is doing more for its export than we ever have, the reason it didn’t get a new engine in Pakistani service is because we wanted the Russian one, as it would fit in much easier with existing maintenance sites and logistics, however that engine is not ready yet (maybe we will see it in the future, maybe not). I assume PAF wanted it for the block 3 but development has been delayed.
Keep in mind, the JF-17 is not Underpowered. It has sufficient power to carry a full load, but a newer engine would be a drastic increase in performance regardless, so we’re all hoping it gets one eventually. Not reaching full potential just means there’s more to do with the bird, the F-16 is 3 times older than the JF-17 and The F-16V isn’t even its full potential.

The only point I agree with you on is the need for indigenization, but that’s a broader problem in the country than just the JF-17.

 

[Goku-kun]

So they upgraded literally everything except the engine, and you’re still not happy. Just great.

You just pointed out the few factors that are strictly related to the engine to make it seem like they’ve done nothing to the aircraft, completely ignoring the fact that that it can carry an entire Ton of ordinance more than block 1, the new Avionics, the new radar, the new missiles, the new MAWS, new RWRs, the new EW suite, the new HUD, the new HMD/S, an extra hardpoint, the new airframe makeup, increased fuel capacity (that’s how the range is still the same with more weight)…need I go on?

It’s not that they haven’t done enough, it’s that you don’t know enough.
they’ve upgraded nearly every single aspect of the aircraft, F-16 has gotten new blocks with a quarter of the upgrades this thing has.

And this jets limitations have Absolutely nothing to do with the J-10C, no matter how good you make it, the J-10C will always be significantly better, why? Because it’s much bigger. There is no conflict of interest given China has been pushing the JF-17 for export literally everywhere but has not marketed the J-10C At all.

China has already made a new engine for the JF-17, in-fact China is doing more for its export than we ever have, the reason it didn’t get a new engine in Pakistani service is because we wanted the Russian one, as it would fit in much easier with existing maintenance sites and logistics, however that engine is not ready yet (maybe we will see it in the future, maybe not). I assume PAF wanted it for the block 3 but development has been delayed.
Keep in mind, the JF-17 is not Underpowered. It has sufficient power to carry a full load, but a newer engine would be a drastic increase in performance regardless, so we’re all hoping it gets one eventually. Not reaching full potential just means there’s more to do with the bird, the F-16 is 3 times older than the JF-17 and The F-16V isn’t even its full potential.

The only point I agree with you on is the need for indigenization, but that’s a broader problem in the country than just the JF-17.

than why would an air chief give 8/10 to block 3 and j10c with a mere 0.5 increase of 8.5/10 with these upgrades..and furthermore how can block 3 be inferior to block 2 e.g;in service ceiling which for block 2 is 55000 ft and according to this new poster for block 3 is just 50000 ft and if there is no new engine than how id they managed to include another weapon/pod station making total hard points to 8..

 

[Enigma SIG]

whoever did the proofreading on this should be court-martialled for the negligence of duties.

The graphic design itself warrants a death by guillotine for the whole marketing department.

Like hire some competent designers from Fiverr for **** sake.

 

[Big_bud]

So they upgraded literally everything except the engine, and you’re still not happy. Just great.

You just pointed out the few factors that are strictly related to the engine to make it seem like they’ve done nothing to the aircraft, completely ignoring the fact that that it can carry an entire Ton of ordinance more than block 1, the new Avionics, the new radar, the new missiles, the new MAWS, new RWRs, the new EW suite, the new HUD, the new HMD/S, an extra hardpoint, the new airframe makeup, increased fuel capacity (that’s how the range is still the same with more weight)…need I go on?

It’s not that they haven’t done enough, it’s that you don’t know enough.
they’ve upgraded nearly every single aspect of the aircraft, F-16 has gotten new blocks with a quarter of the upgrades this thing has.

And this jets limitations have Absolutely nothing to do with the J-10C, no matter how good you make it, the J-10C will always be significantly better, why? Because it’s much bigger. There is no conflict of interest given China has been pushing the JF-17 for export literally everywhere but has not marketed the J-10C At all.

China has already made a new engine for the JF-17, in-fact China is doing more for its export than we ever have, the reason it didn’t get a new engine in Pakistani service is because we wanted the Russian one, as it would fit in much easier with existing maintenance sites and logistics, however that engine is not ready yet (maybe we will see it in the future, maybe not). I assume PAF wanted it for the block 3 but development has been delayed.
Keep in mind, the JF-17 is not Underpowered. It has sufficient power to carry a full load, but a newer engine would be a drastic increase in performance regardless, so we’re all hoping it gets one eventually. Not reaching full potential just means there’s more to do with the bird, the F-16 is 3 times older than the JF-17 and The F-16V isn’t even its full potential.

The only point I agree with you on is the need for indigenization, but that’s a broader problem in the country than just the JF-17.

To begin with. The great jet in making from past 20 years, the pride of nation can't still pull 9Gs... a basic trait of most modern 4th gen fighters. Despite all axis fly by wire. We said it will be 4+ or even 4.5! The only good thing about this fighter would be PL15, we don't know yet if and when PL15 is coming. If not for the PL15, there was nothing special about this jet as compared to the competition. I am not impressed by the time they have taken for this.

Remember this jet could have started off with almost all these features in block 1 as well back in 2007. It was our inability that resulted in induction of a 3.5 gen block 1. We have been catching up on our lackings from past 10+ years. The engine problem existed during the initial design phase of this plane as well. Some 20 years later, back to square one. Working in patch works?

 

[iLION12345_1]

than why would an air chief give 8/10 to block 3 and j10c with a mere 0.5 increase of 8.5/10 with these upgrades..and furthermore how can block 3 be inferior to block 2 e.g;in service ceiling which for block 2 is 55000 ft and according to this new poster for block 3 is just 50000 ft and if there is no new engine than how id they managed to include another weapon/pod station making total hard points to 8..

The word of the air chief isn’t the word of god, they will always hype up JF-17 because it’s a local product, the JF-17 doesn’t compare to the J-10C on a one-one basis in any metric, but it’s a very good aircraft for its size.

The service ceiling has likely not changed, it’s not a rigid number, it’s been quoted all over the place. PAC website still say 55,500 ft.

I think I’m repeating this for the third time now, but the JF-17 does NOT need a better engine to carry more payload. They increased a hardpoint by adding a hardpoint, that’s about it. To increase the payload the wings and airframe were strengthened, just as the wing roots were strengthened in block 2. The engine has More than enough thrust for a fully loaded JF-17. An engine with more thrust would make the aircraft generally more maneuverable, but people are acting like the engine in it current is underpowered or bad, it’s really not.
To put it into perspective, the Tejas has a similar thrust (84KN) and can carry over half a ton more ordinance than even the JF-17 block 3 because of its delta design (more wing strength and lift, but also higher drag, making it less maneuverable and more prone to losing energy.)