JF-17 Block-3 -- Updates, News & Discussion

[denel]

We dropped the ball on Denel and South Africa. Yes, it'd cost money to basically transplant their operations to Pakistan. But we're talking about shifting people, IP, and other non-capital-intensive elements. While the UAE can drop dimes, it'll never overpay for anything. Despite being a Gulf state, the UAE is ruthlessly pragmatic. I guarantee you we wasted a lot more money in the last 5 years than whatever the UAE spent to transfer Denel's organs into EDGE Group, Halcon, etc.

I go back to my articles about the Marlin LRAAM. I get that it wouldn't have been as long-range as the PL-15E. Fair. But it would've given us more independence in how to configure the JF-17 Block-3. It also would've helped build an R&D base for future DPMR technology which, in 5, 10, or 15 years, could translate into a cutting-edge AAM as good as any other available to us on the world market. Instead of paying a pretty dime for the Albatros-NG, we could've been developing a 60+ km range SAM based on the Marlin and Umkhonto. I don't even need to take note of South Africa's prior work on ramjet applications.

We're even talking about the JF-17's engine. Well, Ukraine thinks it can develop an RD-93-type engine. We can call it vaporware or "just an illustration," but Ukraine's R&D foundations are leagues ahead of Pakistan. Their 'vapourware' can materialize into substance because they know how to do it. We don't. Worse, we don't want to put our money towards learning or building those foundations. We can literally see what UAE and KSA are doing.

Unless we have leaders who just say, "enough is enough of this garbage," our future involves taking out loans to buy Chinese weapons. God knows no one's even doing anything to change our fiscal state so that we don't fall further into debt. Our military capability will gradually diminish relative to others because there's only so much you can buy with a PKR perpetually losing its value. One answer to our problem, perhaps, is the fact that to build a strong indigenous defence industry, you need strong economic thinking. Our economic thinking is woefully weak, so the R&D culture, industries, etc all mirror it.


View attachment 793546

You made me cry Bilal!. UAE is thriving on our IP and engineers and entire next gen systems are in flight. Unfortunately Pak leadership has been so blindsighted in their policies that 'local' implies just assembly with no deep core knowledge. Let us take your neighbour; the failure of Pak to even understand mine proof vehicles to begin with has been IA take up entire JVs with Paramount; same thing is happening with radar, comms from Reutech, hmds etc.

 

[MIRauf]

are the 2 extra hard points going to be under the air intake chins?

Just one ( 8th ), other under misunderstanding is the existing Center line HP since day one.

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

I do wonder though what would had happened if our planners had chosen to invest in "farming" this IP. The realist/pessimist in me thinks something like this would have happened:
View attachment 793547

UAE and KSA have shown the capacity to make smart investments and manage them well. We have not.

I agree, but that's the flaw with our planners. They're not capable people. I'm sure we have some kind of corruption racket in South Africa, 100%.

We lack discipline, vision, and relentlessness. Just an anecdote about our cricket team. The current roster is unique because they exhibit qualities that our teams in the past 10-15 years did not. Babar Azam spends a lot of time and energy refining his skills (discipline). Muhammad Rizwan basically came back from crippled to play-ready (relentlessness). Yes, they'll make mistakes -- like overplaying Hassan Ali -- but teams do that in the hopes of getting talented guys out of their slumps (vision). It doesn't work out all the time. We lost the semi-finals, fair, but we came out as a stronger team since everyone knows Babar Azam will have their back, no matter what idiots on the internet will say about a bad series. That's how we forge unity.

We Pakistanis have a ridiculous aversion to failure. We mock failure (see how we taunt the Indians). We fear it to such an extent that we ourselves don't bother to take necessary risks in order to advance. Yes, AZM flopped. The lesson here isn't "never do it again" but to run a postmortem on understanding why it failed and launch it again in a more refined form. If I had been decision-maker, I would've replaced Project AZM with Project AZM 2.0, 3.0, 4.0, etc until we get it right.

I remember failing at something once, and a smart-alec uncle tried taunting me on it. This was a rare time where I got angry, and I said to him, "Uncle, I failed now, but I'll succeed insh'Allah later. I'll make money off this project, but you'll still be here talking. That's all you do. Talk." You can all guess what 'that' project was.

We need to stop being ashamed of failure. In this sense, we need to become like Indians. Shameless of failure. Relentless in pursuit. Our only differentiating point should be that we do it with a little swag like Wassim Akram or Shoaib Malik. In the end, people will fear and admire us like they did peak/pre-injury Waqar Younis. I really want Pakistanis to be respected in the customs line of every God damn airport, including New Delhi. That's the type of leadership and vision we need.

 

[Trango Towers]

Is everyone happy now 8 harpoints confirmed in b3

Yes and the dual racks

 

[FOOLS_NIGHTMARE]

Maybe posted earlier!

 

[Ali_Baba]

The specification of the Block III is not suprising. Block III is about the AESA radar and the PL15E and PL10E aswell as a new integrated EW package, and not much else.

 

[Deino]

View attachment 793586
Maybe posted earlier!

Even if I risk again to be the evil German now I'm almost sure this is nothing but a faked & fabricated sheet.
In fact I cannot think that anyone official at PAC Kamra would be so stupid to put so many wrong stats on an official sheet.
IMO some bored kid made it to look official.

And most of all no-one should blame @isipuppet

 

[Big_bud]

Under whelming to say the least. G limits not increased, thrust not increased, Mach no. not increased, thrust to weight ratio was being reported as above 1 previously now it is confirmed that it never increased. Took 2016 - 2021 just to upgrade a radar, some sensors and 1 extra hard point? 5 years in making for a new block, 2 decades in making for a jet that still hasn't reached its complete potential. I think Chinese also had a conflict of interest there. Why would they improve JF17 beyond a certain point when they can just pitch their J10-C for sale? Goes to show importance of not becoming dependant on 1 supplier. Pakistan should take 3 important steps in future. 1. Start aggressive indigenisation 2. Invest in Turkish alliance as well. 3 Keep working with Chinese. If 1 fails to deliver we'd have other options to fall back on.

 

[GumNaam]

View attachment 793586
Maybe posted earlier!

says length is 7 feet...

 

[JamD]

Even if I risk again to be the evil German now I'm almost sure this is nothing but a faked & fabricated sheet.
In fact I cannot think that anyone official at PAC Kamra would be so stupid to put so many wrong stats on an official sheet.
IMO some bored kid made it to look official.

And most of all no-one should blame @isipuppet

You'll be surprised... you'll be surprised....

 

[maverick1977]

You made me cry Bilal!. UAE is thriving on our IP and engineers and entire next gen systems are in flight. Unfortunately Pak leadership has been so blindsighted in their policies that 'local' implies just assembly with no deep core knowledge. Let us take your neighbour; the failure of Pak to even understand mine proof vehicles to begin with has been IA take up entire JVs with Paramount; same thing is happening with radar, comms from Reutech, hmds etc.

Pakistanis left behind and in power circles are corrupt, bottom line, they are busy in hiding their wealth and plundering it, how can they have foresight of developing a nation... some of the good ones left behind are the ones who are still salvaging it. Pakistan needs accountability and tough justice system.

 

[Aesterix]

You'll be surprised... you'll be surprised....

It says length 7 feet
So it is surprising

 

[omi]

I agree, but that's the flaw with our planners. They're not capable people. I'm sure we have some kind of corruption racket in South Africa, 100%.

We lack discipline, vision, and relentlessness. Just an anecdote about our cricket team. The current roster is unique because they exhibit qualities that our teams in the past 10-15 years did not. Babar Azam spends a lot of time and energy refining his skills (discipline). Muhammad Rizwan basically came back from crippled to play-ready (relentlessness). Yes, they'll make mistakes -- like overplaying Hassan Ali -- but teams do that in the hopes of getting talented guys out of their slumps (vision). It doesn't work out all the time. We lost the semi-finals, fair, but we came out as a stronger team since everyone knows Babar Azam will have their back, no matter what idiots on the internet will say about a bad series. That's how we forge unity.

We Pakistanis have a ridiculous aversion to failure. We mock failure (see how we taunt the Indians). We fear it to such an extent that we ourselves don't bother to take necessary risks in order to advance. Yes, AZM flopped. The lesson here isn't "never do it again" but to run a postmortem on understanding why it failed and launch it again in a more refined form. If I had been decision-maker, I would've replaced Project AZM with Project AZM 2.0, 3.0, 4.0, etc until we get it right.

I remember failing at something once, and a smart-alec uncle tried taunting me on it. This was a rare time where I got angry, and I said to him, "Uncle, I failed now, but I'll succeed insh'Allah later. I'll make money off this project, but you'll still be here talking. That's all you do. Talk." You can all guess what 'that' project was.

We need to stop being ashamed of failure. In this sense, we need to become like Indians. Shameless of failure. Relentless in pursuit. Our only differentiating point should be that we do it with a little swag like Wassim Akram or Shoaib Malik. In the end, people will fear and admire us like they did peak/pre-injury Waqar Younis. I really want Pakistanis to be respected in the customs line of every God damn airport, including New Delhi. That's the type of leadership and vision we need.

How and when did we fail AZM? Have I missed something? Care to elaborate just a little, please?

 

[kursed]

There's actually so much chatter about the Block 3 getting WS13E eventually, specially after its most recent certification on the type, that I will not be surprised if this happens for real. I'd not go by the above-mentioned sheet.

If Pak does switch engines, it'll opt for WS-13E, not RD-93MA.

 

[Aesterix]

Guess who else visited PAC Kamra at Dubai expo.