J/APG-1. World's first AESA, most advanced type of radar.

[Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/J/APG-1

The Mitsubishi F-2 is a multirole fighter manufactured by Mitsubishi Heavy Industries (MHI) and Lockheed Martin for the Japan Air Self-Defense Force, with a 60/40 split in manufacturing between Japan and the USA. Production started in 1996 and the first aircraft entered service in 2000. The first 76 aircraft entered service in 2008, with a total of 94 airframes produced. The first AESA Active electronically scanned array radar on a combat aircraft was the J/APG-1 introduced on the Mitsubishi F-2 in 1995. Source wikiwand.com

https://thaimilitaryandasianregion.wordpress.com/2016/07/04/mitsubishi-f-2-japan/

 

[Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen]

At the time, Russia had PESA used in MiG-31. Americans only had mechanically scanning radar like APG-71 used in F-15E and APG-73 used in F-18E. So Americans took AESA technology from Japan to make APG-77 for F-22 which had first flight in 1997.

@pakistanipower

 

[Ultima Thule]

At the time, Russia had PESA used in MiG-31. Americans only had mechanically scanning radar like APG-71 used in F-15E and APG-73 used in F-18E. So Americans took AESA technology from Japan to make APG-77 for F-22 which had first flight in 1997.

@pakistanipower

PESA is less accurate than AESA and how do you know Japan gave the tech to USA to build APG-77, you have no proof, USA have no research facilities to develop his own AESA @undertakerwwefan the opposite was real USA help Japan to develop J/AGP-1 and Name shows that USA help Japan rather than Japan help USA to develop APG-77 @undertakerwwefan keep blabbering without base @undertakerwwefan

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/J/APG-1

The Mitsubishi F-2 is a multirole fighter manufactured by Mitsubishi Heavy Industries (MHI) and Lockheed Martin for the Japan Air Self-Defense Force, with a 60/40 split in manufacturing between Japan and the USA. Production started in 1996 and the first aircraft entered service in 2000. The first 76 aircraft entered service in 2008, with a total of 94 airframes produced. The first AESA Active electronically scanned array radar on a combat aircraft was the J/APG-1 introduced on the Mitsubishi F-2 in 1995. Source wikiwand.com

https://thaimilitaryandasianregion.wordpress.com/2016/07/04/mitsubishi-f-2-japan/

Name already says that USA did help Japan to develop J/APG-1 rather than Japan help to Build APG-77 @undertakerwwefan Keep blabbering without base @undertakerwwefan

 

[serenity]

PESA is less accurate than AESA and how do you know Japan gave the tech to USA to build APG-77, you have no proof, USA have no research facilities to develop his own AESA @undertakerwwefan the opposite was real USA help Japan to develop J/AGP-1 and Name shows that USA help Japan rather than Japan help USA to develop APG-77 @undertakerwwefan keep blabbering without base @undertakerwwefan


Name already says that USA did help Japan to develop J/APG-1 rather than Japan help to Build APG-77 @undertakerwwefan Keep blabbering without base @undertakerwwefan

Actually Japan did this and installed this on fighter before US. Everyone had large phased radars at that time already. Its not new at all AESA technology by this time but the Japanese first made it small enough to be effectively installed on fighter and on missile. They pioneered this but stopped working on it because they were not a really military nation at that time and didn't want to keep spending money on it and develop things further.

You're saying USA help Japan with no proof but a name even though the name designation is also for US version just like SPY1 radar for Japan probably has a Japanese designation in their own books. Reality is USA probably learned a lot from Japanese about miniaturising AESA to develop their own. J1 radar had many problems because it is the first of its kind and American ones after that were very good. It makes sense for US engineers to learn from Japanese in this case because why not learn where others maybe made mistakes and less time wasted doing trivial testings.

Facts are Japanese first put working AESA on service fighter and missile. USA first fighter AESA and missile seeker came much later. Why wouldn't the Americans want to know everything their allies have done? It would make the process must faster, cheaper, easier and also much more effective. All done while they do their own research and development like how most good engineering departments will operate for such grand cutting edge technology projects. So it makes absolutely good sense that the Japanese would help the Americans develop this area of military technology which the Japaense themselves will benefit from in future since they don't want to keep spending billions on developing and improving this technology. While what you are claiming that the Americans helped develop this for Japan is ridiculous. No US military project has ever in modern history been given to any one else first before the US. So why would they give fighter AESA to Japan years before they put their own into initial research and then operation.

 

[Ultima Thule]

Actually Japan did this and installed this on fighter before US. Everyone had large phased radars at that time already. Its not new at all AESA technology by this time but the Japanese first made it small enough to be effectively installed on fighter and on missile. They pioneered this but stopped working on it because they were not a really military nation at that time and didn't want to keep spending money on it and develop things further.

You're saying USA help Japan with no proof but a name even though the name designation is also for US version just like SPY1 radar for Japan probably has a Japanese designation in their own books. Reality is USA probably learned a lot from Japanese about miniaturising AESA to develop their own. J1 radar had many problems because it is the first of its kind and American ones after that were very good. It makes sense for US engineers to learn from Japanese in this case because why not learn where others maybe made mistakes and less time wasted doing trivial testings.

Facts are Japanese first put working AESA on service fighter and missile. USA first fighter AESA and missile seeker came much later. Why wouldn't the Americans want to know everything their allies have done? It would make the process must faster, cheaper, easier and also much more effective. All done while they do their own research and development like how most good engineering departments will operate for such grand cutting edge technology projects. So it makes absolutely good sense that the Japanese would help the Americans develop this area of military technology which the Japaense themselves will benefit from in future since they don't want to keep spending billions on developing and improving this technology. While what you are claiming that the Americans helped develop this for Japan is ridiculous. No US military project has ever in modern history been given to any one else first before the US. So why would they give fighter AESA to Japan years before they put their own into initial research and then operation.

First do me a favor, Tell me that what the experience Japanese had for development and manufacturing airborne radars before J/APG 1, None, they always buy military tech from west/ USA , USA did help for the development of J/APG-1 as name suggest @serenity

 

[serenity]

First do me a favor, Tell me that what the experience Japanese had for development and manufacturing airborne radars before J/APG 1, None, they always buy military tech from west/ USA , USA did help for the development of J/APG-1 as name suggest @serenity

Wrong. What kind of logic is this? So many Pakistani members always use this thinking. Because there is no information on google therefore the thing didn't happen. Because there are no public photos of Japanese developing radar technology, they must be incapable. Because they don't publish articles detailing all the things they have researched and experimented on, none of that must exist. So dumb. I won't do your first favour because it is stupid. It means nothing.

China also never had experience making computers at some point, now China can build supercomputers. USA never built a stealth plane at some point, but they have the largest experience now. Everything starts from somewhere.

Why do you need to believe all people are incapable? I don't understand this. The Japanese do not need to tell you everything they have and everything they've done. You can decide that they have never tried if you want.

All the available public information suggests this radar is entirely from Mitsubishi. Can you explain to me why USA didn't field the first fighter AESA radar if they developed a suitable one first? Start with that actually. Can you show any proof it was the Americans that built it? All the evidence I found show opposite is true.

 

[Ultima Thule]

Wrong. What kind of logic is this? So many Pakistani members always use this thinking. Because there is no information on google therefore the thing didn't happen. Because there are no public photos of Japanese developing radar technology, they must be incapable. Because they don't publish articles detailing all the things they have researched and experimented on, none of that must exist. So dumb. I won't do your first favour because it is stupid. It means nothing.

China also never had experience making computers at some point, now China can build supercomputers. USA never built a stealth plane at some point, but they have the largest experience now. Everything starts from somewhere.

Why do you need to believe all people are incapable? I don't understand this. The Japanese do not need to tell you everything they have and everything they've done. You can decide that they have never tried if you want.

Japan always relying to USA/West since the ww2, especially for military tech, USA/West wont allow Japan to do independent military research from their own and that's the facts @serenity

 

[serenity]

Japan always relying to USA/West since the ww2, especially for military tech, USA/West wont allow Japan to do independent military research from their own and that's the facts @serenity

This doesn't mean they don't have anything of their own. In logic, as long as you can demonstrate an exception to a rule, the rule is proven false. The rule you are suggesting is the assumption that Japanese ALWAYS rely on west since WW2 on everything military, and therefore they cannot independently have military research. This logic is so wrong I don't even know how to start fixing it.

I will demonstrate exception instead.

1. Type 10 tank. Independently developed. Different structure and chasis with Type 90 which is based off Leopard design philosophy only smaller and lighter for island fighting. Type 10 has extreme high tensile strength steel armour and laminate ceramics different. Gun based off Rheinmetal like all western tanks except english and french but because it is a fantastic gun and they want to use same 120mm types of rounds.

2. ASM-3 missile. Totally different design and Japanese exclusive. Again self developed.

3. Type 88 missiles. Again I don't see a direct US link.

4. Type 12 missiles. Again I don't see a direct US link.

5. Type 96 multipurpose missile.

6. Type 11 SAM

7. Type 03 SAM

8. AAM 3

9. AAM 5

10. Izumo class VTOL carrier

Just some examples to prove they do develop some equipment and definitely build and design most sub-components but many things are obviously common. Just like UK and US have many common things shared too. They are allies.

This proves they can and do have the infrastructure to do these things and radar is included.

https://asia.nikkei.com/Politics/In...an-radar-tech-to-double-missile-defense-range

They have good semiconductor industries and only one of two countries in the world other one being netherlands that have lithography technique for semiconductor fabrication. Very technologically advanced country with very small military budget. They can become very serious big player if they wanted to.

It is Japan who doesn't want to with article 9 but USA beginning to wish Japan does build military industry. Right now, Japanese military industry doesn't get serioius funding like for example China's. If they decide to, they will come out with some amazing terrifying things and world becomes more dangerous because everyone has big military technologies and before when war mostly is shooting at each other, now some bombs can destroy entire countries. Neutron bomb will clean out entire region. So too dangerous to play war nowadays. Better find economic and diplomatic ways to get along and spend more effort that direction which Japan sometimes tries. They are not a really bad guy anymore so don't blame them for no military power because they are very very capable of it. Just restraining themselves a bit because they are wise enough to understand there is no win anymore better to look after non-military power and Japan is ffantastic in those areas.

Most Japanese military stuff is really US that is true. Almost all of it. But you are thinkng just because majority is, therefore all of it is and Japanese are not able to do any independently more or less. But truth is not like that. They have small parts that they do play around with in niche technology areas and they are definitely very innovative and capable. So it is very possible that radar is totally Japanese and facts are USA started developing fighter AESA after and fielded them after J/APG-1. They also bought this radar to analyse. Any Japanese equipment is usually shared and Japan is usually happy to share with US. So the english name for this radar system is J/APG-1 because it is a common system that USA can get hands on anytime. If you believe otherwise, please share proof this system was developed by US and given to Japan. I haven't found any.

Original poster is wrong. US didn't take AESA technology from Japan. AESA technology was quite widely understood then and many phased arrays already exist all over the world but it is first fighter sized and can track target and shoot at small fast targets and doing this has diferent challenges to the very large phased radars for ballistic missile detection. USA may have gotten this and studied it and find ways to develop this type of technology for fighters. I think USA already had projects to do this because it makes sense to have them and obvious direction for development. But please don't suggest JApann 100% incapable and must have this given from USA. This isn't true until proven so and there is no proof and everything suggest the opposite.

 

[Ultima Thule]

This doesn't mean they don't have anything of their own. In logic, as long as you can demonstrate an exception to a rule, the rule is proven false. The rule you are suggesting is the assumption that Japanese ALWAYS rely on west since WW2 on everything military, and therefore they cannot independently have military research. This logic is so wrong I don't even know how to start fixing it.

I will demonstrate exception instead.

1. Type 10 tank. Independently developed. Different structure and chasis with Type 90 which is based off Leopard design philosophy only smaller and lighter for island fighting. Type 10 has extreme high tensile strength steel armour and laminate ceramics different. Gun based off Rheinmetal like all western tanks except english and french but because it is a fantastic gun and they want to use same 120mm types of rounds.

2. ASM-3 missile. Totally different design and Japanese exclusive. Again self developed.

3. Type 88 missiles. Again I don't see a direct US link.

4. Type 12 missiles. Again I don't see a direct US link.

5. Type 96 multipurpose missile.

6. Type 11 SAM

7. Type 03 SAM

8. AAM 3

9. AAM 5

10. Izumo class VTOL carrier

Just some examples to prove they do develop some equipment and definitely build and design most sub-components but many things are obviously common. Just like UK and US have many common things shared too. They are allies.

This proves they can and do have the infrastructure to do these things and radar is included.

https://asia.nikkei.com/Politics/In...an-radar-tech-to-double-missile-defense-range

They have good semiconductor industries and only one of two countries in the world other one being netherlands that have lithography technique for semiconductor fabrication. Very technologically advanced country with very small military budget. They can become very serious big player if they wanted to.

It is Japan who doesn't want to with article 9 but USA beginning to wish Japan does build military industry. Right now, Japanese military industry doesn't get serioius funding like for example China's. If they decide to, they will come out with some amazing terrifying things and world becomes more dangerous because everyone has big military technologies and before when war mostly is shooting at each other, now some bombs can destroy entire countries. Neutron bomb will clean out entire region. So too dangerous to play war nowadays. Better find economic and diplomatic ways to get along and spend more effort that direction which Japan sometimes tries. They are not a really bad guy anymore so don't blame them for no military power because they are very very capable of it. Just restraining themselves a bit because they are wise enough to understand there is no win anymore better to look after non-military power and Japan is ffantastic in those areas.

Most Japanese military stuff is really US that is true. Almost all of it. But you are thinkng just because majority is, therefore all of it is and Japanese are not able to do any independently more or less. But truth is not like that. They have small parts that they do play around with in niche technology areas and they are definitely very innovative and capable. So it is very possible that radar is totally Japanese and facts are USA started developing fighter AESA after and fielded them after J/APG-1. They also bought this radar to analyse. Any Japanese equipment is usually shared and Japan is usually happy to share with US. So the english name for this radar system is J/APG-1 because it is a common system that USA can get hands on anytime. If you believe otherwise, please share proof this system was developed by US and given to Japan. I haven't found any.

Original poster is wrong. US didn't take AESA technology from Japan. AESA technology was quite widely understood then and many phased arrays already exist all over the world but it is first fighter sized and can track target and shoot at small fast targets and doing this has diferent challenges to the very large phased radars for ballistic missile detection. USA may have gotten this and studied it and find ways to develop this type of technology for fighters. I think USA already had projects to do this because it makes sense to have them and obvious direction for development. But please don't suggest JApann 100% incapable and must have this given from USA. This isn't true until proven so and there is no proof and everything suggest the opposite.

just one word they are/was based on western/US military tech @serenity

 

[serenity]

Alright I can't convince you. I'm just pretty sure you shouldn't be so 100% sure. Whereas I think I offered good reasons to have doubts that everything is always USA developed. We can just have our own thoughts about this and people can decide for themselves since there is no concrete evidence to prove either way.

 

[Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen]

Russia was the first to deploy phased array radar operationally with S-300's phased array radar in the 1970s. America didn't deploy phased array radar until 1980s with Patriot. Russia also had first PESA in fighter jet in 1980s. America isn't first in everything. Russia is first in phased array radar and PESA in a fighter jet. Russia is first in helmet mounted display. Japan is first in AESA in fighter jet in 1990s. America is first in IRST in the 1960s.

@serenity @pakistanipower