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Israeli F-16 fighter jet shot down amid Syrian anti-air fire, pilots safe - IDF

Welcome to the Human Kingdom...


Why did they let it happen? it's simple... Human nature...
And who told you Iraq situation is over...


They saw others do it...they believed to be the same... but they weren't... they forgot their history...their differences...their hate...their future...
The world push us to believe in" globalisation" in being the same... sharing the same past and future..;and the same rights and duty... But we are not... and will never be...
Syrian revolution... should have been supported... by those holding power in this world... since their ppl weren't ready to accept their "shared" reality...


In revolutions... everything that made your past and will make your future will be added to this "revolutionary" group... Syrians lacked a "shared" vision of their future... they weren't made of only one group...


Ofc Assad has to be blamed for those atrocities... but not only him... His father... Pan-Arabism... the people who turned a blind eye to such system fro decades... thinking they will get a share..;a peace... a future...
A gov do not pop from nowhere... it's not forced upon his citizens (except invasion)... A gov is a collective "vision"... feed him and it will grow...respect it and it will respect you... corrupt him and it will corrupt you...



Obama will be known as the worst President in US history... Someone who embodied every hope of a nation... Someone who had everything to succeed... to change the face of his nation and the world... But did nothing... he didn't have the guts to move... he wasn't a president of the strongest nation on earth... he was just an empty shell...who stayed alive... by a collective desire... mostly made of Hope... But As someone said... "Hope only feed the soul..."

Russians are opportunist... they always were... and what they did... is a masterpiece of Realpolitiks... they feed on the weakness , on the fear, on the hope of those who are lost cause... But they will make you believe..;that you will reborn...like a Phoenix... But after the contract... Russia will still keep hidden one fact... the most important one...
"Phoenix never existed..;and never will..."

Sorry for the late reply, bro.

Indeed. Or should we rather say the animalistic kingdom.

Not over yet indeed but for now it has calmed down a lot. The last 3 moths have been good for Iraq. I really hope that it continues and the elections will not kickstart another conflict.

I agree. Globalization works in the West (but not even fully) due to that part of the world being on the same page (more or less) for quite some time now.

Yes, someone should have taken action but it is easier said than done. People had the Iraq and Afghanistan fiascos (in particular the US) in fresh memory. Nobody wanted to take such a risk. You had the financial crisis too and at the start the focus was on Libya as I recall.

Sure it is a combination but if any party is to be blamed first and foremost it is Al-Asad and his local allies (the network that his father created back in the 1960's).

Yes, Obama will probably win (one day) the opposite of the "Nobel Prize" (how could he come even remotely close to this prize, I have no idea about) for his cowardice, inaction and in general very poor foreign policy. Your description of him says it all.

Indeed but their legend (which is IMO more contrary to the reality than the opposite) also helps them out with such moves and the traditional Post WW1, European/Western paranoia about them. It strengthens them and their agenda.
 
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Before you -- the radar trying to find the 'stealth' fighter -- shares any kind of data to anyone, you must be statistically certain of what you 'see'.

This...

y8Rpj48.jpg


...Is how any radar 'sees' any aircraft -- as a cluster of voltage spikes. The voltage spikes by themselves are not enough. Free space is filled with them from all sources. So the important word here is CLUSTER. Not only that, each voltage spike inside that cluster should have the same signal characteristics. Radars that are designed to provide high target accuracy must be discriminatory in assessing each voltage spike. If one spike does not conform, it will be discarded from target algorithm.

Once a radar signal bounced off a surface, at least one component of its signal characteristics is changed. Usually phase is flipped, so the seeking radar will be designed to accept phase flipping as an acceptable change.

http://ieeexplore.ieee.org/document/4404102/

Therein lies the problem posed by 'stealth' platforms regarding the highlighted.

YOU -- the seeking radar -- is running a transmit freq of centimeters long, aka centimetric signals. The 'stealth' fighter produces echoes that are already low amplitude, now add in signal characteristics changes that ranges from phase flipping to pulse width or even the echo signal dies completely. So instead of you processing a cluster, you struggles to process voltage spikes that are sufficiently dissimilar to each other BEFORE you can determine if there is a cluster or not.

There is no radar system in the world that is designed to share this kind of erratic data.

This is not the same as multiple radars trying to process the same erratic set of echo signals. That is not data sharing. It is bi-static or multi-static radar configuration. A different discussion in trying to deal with 'stealth'.

I totally agree with you but here remains a question of prerecorded data. for example the new radars have data bases that have recorded data on aircraft. like there are F-35 flying in Japan and Chinese Radars are recording their RADAR data once a data base has been established the data then can be used to get a better lock with RADAR validating data with it's previous records and thus getting a lock on a stealth fighter. With previous data the algorithm can have a better chance of keeping the lock.
 
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Before you -- the radar trying to find the 'stealth' fighter -- shares any kind of data to anyone, you must be statistically certain of what you 'see'.

This...

y8Rpj48.jpg


...Is how any radar 'sees' any aircraft -- as a cluster of voltage spikes. The voltage spikes by themselves are not enough. Free space is filled with them from all sources. So the important word here is CLUSTER. Not only that, each voltage spike inside that cluster should have the same signal characteristics. Radars that are designed to provide high target accuracy must be discriminatory in assessing each voltage spike. If one spike does not conform, it will be discarded from target algorithm.

Once a radar signal bounced off a surface, at least one component of its signal characteristics is changed. Usually phase is flipped, so the seeking radar will be designed to accept phase flipping as an acceptable change.

http://ieeexplore.ieee.org/document/4404102/

Therein lies the problem posed by 'stealth' platforms regarding the highlighted.

YOU -- the seeking radar -- is running a transmit freq of centimeters long, aka centimetric signals. The 'stealth' fighter produces echoes that are already low amplitude, now add in signal characteristics changes that ranges from phase flipping to pulse width or even the echo signal dies completely. So instead of you processing a cluster, you struggles to process voltage spikes that are sufficiently dissimilar to each other BEFORE you can determine if there is a cluster or not.

There is no radar system in the world that is designed to share this kind of erratic data.

This is not the same as multiple radars trying to process the same erratic set of echo signals. That is not data sharing. It is bi-static or multi-static radar configuration. A different discussion in trying to deal with 'stealth'.
Good.. but if that cluster has any close form look like a plane.. the operator can ask for other systems to look it up.. and has just to give them the coordinates..
 
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Good.. but if that cluster has any close form look like a plane.. the operator can ask for other systems to look it up.. and has just to give them the coordinates..
That is a big 'if'. But that is what 'stealth' is supposed to do: make big 'ifs'.

I understand that everyone want to defeat the American 'stealth' platforms. I get it. But people should stop focusing on B, C, D, and so on when your radars is struggling with A. It is a chain of causes and effects where the effects from one link becomes the causes for the next link. If you cannot process A, it is useless to speculate on how good it is to defeat 'stealth' with B, C, D, and so on...
 
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I second this. @Mods - Why is this Clown been let loose like this? A damn good thread has been derailed. Please take action.

Go take your medicine, bro. You are 5-6 hours late. For the past 3-4 pages it has been on topic and I was not the one that derailed it initially. Instead of writing one-liners, read the content of the thread. Stop crying and get over it, lol.

IAF must now modify its offensive tactics


Analysis: Saturday’s incidents, which signal dawn of new state of affairs with Iranians and Syrians coordinating offensive actions against Israel, require IAF to modify its tactics even in Israeli airspace; however, while the Iranians aimed for propaganda victory, they shot themselves in foot, as Iranian adventures endanger Russian interests and regional stability.

Ron Ben Yishai|Last update: 02.11.18 , 00:03

The fact that a Syrian anti-aircraft missile, fired from deep within Syria, managed to hit an Israeli jet flying over Israeli territory calls for the Israeli Air Force to modify its offensive tactics and its flight profile in certain instances, even while flying over Israeli airspace.

What exactly happened Saturday morning?

In the early morning hours, an IAF Apache helicopter downed an Iranian drone (UAV) that infiltrated Israeli airspace; Israeli jets then set out to attack Syrian and Iranian targets in Syria. The Syrians responded with anti-aircraft fire forcing two pilots to abandon their aircraft. The jet crashed in the central Galilee and the two pilots were hurt, one seriously.

Israel proceeded to attack 12 targets in Syria and the Syrians continued their anti-aircraft fire. Air raid sirens went off in large parts of the Galilee, the Golan Heights and the northern Jordan Valley. Remnants of Syrian missiles landed in Israeli territory.


Crews at site of downed IAF jet (Photo: AFP)

How was the plane downed?

In my opinion, the Syrians and Iranians did not plan an ambush, rather the four Israeli F-16s flying at a high altitude over Israel failed to assume that Syria would dare launch missiles into Israeli territory as a response to Israel attacking an Iranian target. Complacency is what led to the incident, which could have been avoided had the jets flown at a lower altitude.

Syrians have been in possession of SA-5 missiles for decades and their range, covering most of Israel, is well known. The SA-5 is a Russian missile designed to hit targets flying at long distances and high altitudes.


IDF forces in Golan (Photo: Effi Shrir)

It is possible that the Russian have recently improved the missiles' homing system and made them immune to electronic disruption. However, there is no doubt that had the aircraft flown at a lower altitude on their return from Syria, they would not have been hit.

What was the Iranian objective?

Seemingly, the Iranian objective was to verify how vulnerable Israeli airspace is to infiltration by UAVs. Moreover, the Iranians sought to garner propaganda points had the infiltration proven successful.

The very deployment of stealth UAV, seemingly a copy of an American model that fell in Iran, was meant to show off an Iranian triumph, while acting against Israel.



Injured pilots being brought to Rambam Hospital (Photo: TPS)


How serious is the incident?

Saturday’s incidents signal the dawn of a new state of affairs in which the Iranians and Syrians coordinate offensive actions against Israel. Until now, the Syrians and Iranians have responded to Israeli attacks through diplomatic channels or with anti-aircraft fire during or after Israeli attacks.



Pilot bailing F16 (Photo: Maya Himmelhoch)

This time, events were initiated by the Iran's launch of an UAV and its infiltration of Israeli airspace; together with a massive barrage of anti-aircraft fire at Israeli jets responding to the Iranian provocation.

The fact that the Syrians launched anti-aircraft missiles at IAF aircraft deep over Israeli airspace is a serious violation of sovereignty. There is only one previous case: a year ago, Syria launched SA-5 missiles against Israeli jets that attacked Syria. The harsh Israeli response is meant to elucidate to the Syrians and Iranians that next time the response will be even harsher.


Site of downet F16 (Photo: AFP)

What about the Russians?

Russia’s policy has been: as long as our interests are not interfered with, everyone can do whatever they want. The Iranian provocation directly endangers Russian interests, just as Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu had warned Russian President Vladimir Putin.

Due to our ability to defend our airspace, Israel allowed the Iranian drone to enter Israeli airspace and only then was it downed. It seems that the Iranians shot themselves in the foot while trying to create a short-term morale or propaganda victory.
The Israeli strike on the Syrian air field from which the drone was launched had to have been carried out with utmost precision to avoid hitting any Russian aircraft or personnel. The Iranian target was extremely small and difficult to detect.

https://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-5104846,00.html
 
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That is a big 'if'. But that is what 'stealth' is supposed to do: make big 'ifs'.

I understand that everyone want to defeat the American 'stealth' platforms. I get it. But people should stop focusing on B, C, D, and so on when your radars is struggling with A. It is a chain of causes and effects where the effects from one link becomes the causes for the next link. If you cannot process A, it is useless to speculate on how good it is to defeat 'stealth' with B, C, D, and so on...

My friend you are wrong here it is not world war 2 and there are programmers better than USA in the world around you. Detecting stealth no more depends on RADARS but algorithms. ADA was the previously used military language but the New Algorithms generated using C++ versions have better deliver ability and Once the RADAR signature of a certain object is stored that Object no matter how stealthy is detectable. Russia made many F-22 intercepts in Syria and Syrian SAMs are linked to Russian new system in Syria because of which today's intercept was also possible. The F-35 and F-22 are recorded platforms. they well get detected.
 
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Yep a Saudi claiming Russia has nothing to show in its history. :lol:

We have created many modern inventions, we have contributed to science, literature, mathematics, medicine, etc.

We launched the first satellite, were the first in space, etc, defeated Germany, etc.

What did the Saudis achieve? What useful contributions did Saudis gift to the world?

Ignore this clown mate. Russia is a true Superpower. When Russia was flying to the moon, these people were trying to ride camels as the MOST advance form of transport they had ever seen.
 
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That is a big 'if'. But that is what 'stealth' is supposed to do: make big 'ifs'.

I understand that everyone want to defeat the American 'stealth' platforms. I get it. But people should stop focusing on B, C, D, and so on when your radars is struggling with A. It is a chain of causes and effects where the effects from one link becomes the causes for the next link. If you cannot process A, it is useless to speculate on how good it is to defeat 'stealth' with B, C, D, and so on...
We are talking about stealth in general terms not particularly the US stealth..All I am saying is that when A has a doubt about a cluster it has detected.. it can eventually verify and confirm what it is.. through B, C or D.. or a combination.. So if there is a stealth fighter approaching its Area, it can be detected if A proceeds to share the coordinates of what ever doubtful cluster it has seen with B,C and D systems that have other means of detection..
 
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Much of the scientific achievements that enabled space agencies to develop were created by Germans during WW2.

Does it matter if it's Russian invention or German invention? Russians invented radio. Germans sent the first radio signal into space. But they are all white people, who dominate the world militarily because of technology.
 
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Ignore this clown mate. Russia is a true Superpower. When Russia was flying to the moon, these people were trying to ride camels as the MOST advance form of transport they had ever seen.

Horses beg to differ as well as existing cars (you can say the same thing about Pakistan and all Muslim countries but you are not even aware of this, sad) which were/are not an Russian invention. Much of the scientific achievements that enabled space agencies to develop were created by Germans during WW2. BTW, I believe that your mouth is brown enough as it is. You are done. BTW why are you blabbering about such topics when I already wrote ages ago that Russia has been ahead of the Arab/Muslim world for the past past least 300 years if not 450 years. But that is the only period of history where they were ahead.


Says a lazy arse Saudi. Hilarious. Please wear some red coloured bangles since that is the only thing you were and are good at. Have a wonderful day.

Your blabbering makes zero sense to me. Go dig a hole in the ground buddy.

Does it matter if it's Russian invention or German invention? Russians invented radio. Germans sent the first radio signal into space. But they are all white people, who dominate the world militarily because of technology.

Did I or anyone else ever state in this thread that the West has not been ahead in the past 500 years? I think that I have been repeating this for quite some time. Ages ago in fact. So not breaking news for me Superboy.

But I hope that you are well aware of the fact that there is a long chain and that every technology (almost) is interconnected. Those chains are becoming more diverse as the non-Western world is slowly catching up. If anything was God-given the same people/region of the world would always be ahead. That has never been the case but some have dominated more than others. Arab world/Middle East says hello. Or for the past at least 500 years (maybe since the Italian renascence began as well). Find somebody who disagrees though that you can discuss this with.

@HannibalBarca

In case somebody was ever in doubt:



As predicated in post 423. No surprises.
 
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Arabs dominated at one time regionally. They were able to spread Islam to Iran and Turkey, but not to Europe, India, China, which were too powerful for Arabs to conquer.

What you wrote would mean being able to control the entire world back then. Nobody has ever been able to do so in human history. No, but creating the largest and most influential empires to date back then is an "ok" achievement, I would claim and most sane people. Nobody could control the entire known world back then. Not Arabs not anyone else. Same case today. BTW Spain, Portugal, Sicily, Malta, Cyprus, parts of Southern Italy, parts of France, Crete (all Europe) disagree with you but whatever. At the borders of the last two. Huge population difference. Unfair comparison.

Lastly this is irrelevant. You did not get the point. Technology (existing) did not jump down from the sky. It came from somewhere else. From a previous chain. That previous chain was again influenced by other prior chains. That's how you develop and improve technology. Whether chemical engineering or computer engineering.



Shrapnel? Really?



More comedy.

 
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What you wrote would mean being able to control the entire world back then. Nobody has ever been able to do so in human history. No, but creating the largest and most influential empires to date back then is an "ok" achievement, I would claim and most sane people. Nobody could control the entire known world back then. Not Arabs non anyone else. Same case today. BTW Spain, Portugal, Sicily, Malta, Cyprus, parts of Southern Italy, parts of France, Crete (all Europe) disagree with you but whatever. At the borders of the last two. Huge population difference. Unfair comparison.

Lastly this is irrelevant. You did not get the point. Technology (existing) did not jump down from the sky. It came from somewhere else. From a previous chain. That previous chain was again influenced by other prior chains. That's how you develop and improve technology. Whether chemical engineering or computer engineering.



Shrapnel? Really?



More comedy.


White people practically conquered the world. Every country speaks English. Every country uses physical units named after white people. Newton. Faraday. Ohm. Celsius. Fahrenheit. Kelvin. Ampere. Coulomb. Volta. Pascal. Tesla. Modern science came from white people. Renaissance and Enlightenment. People live thousands of years because of modern science.
 
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