Israeli F-16 fighter jet shot down amid Syrian anti-air fire, pilots safe - IDF

[Aramagedon]

Yep it seems so that this is the drone that was tracking IS movement in the area when it got shot down.

Yep American pigs are supporting Daesh directly & indirectly...

They don’t want end of civil war in Syria. Truely Bastards.....

 

[Saif al-Arab]

So let me get this straight:

Al-Assad is allied with Russia (Putin) and Iran (Khamenei) simultaneously who both compete for influence in Syria and disagree on certain key fronts.

Turkey (Erdogan) main priority is to prevent the establishment of a "Kurdistan" in Northern Syria and Iraq that would threaten their integrity. At the same time, Erdogan is a long-time (old) enemy of Al-Assad and allied (at least on paper) with MB-inspired Syrian opposition groups. On the other hand Iran has obvious dealings with YPG, as has Russia but less so (from what I can see). Yet Russia "turns the blind eye" to Iran aiding the YPG/arming against Turkey in Afrin. The same Russia is supposedly an ally of Turkey in the region and is officially against a Kurdish state in Syria while openly talking about the integrity of Syria.

Al-Assad himself is against the split of Syria (naturally) but is far more tolerating of YPG than he is of Syrian opposition groups other than YPG.

Both use Daesh (Al-Assad and Russia) against others, typically the Syrian opposition.

Then you have the US who are in Syria to prevent it from becoming an Iranian nest like Southern Lebanon and to try to challenge Russian influence in Syria. At the same time Trump has no love left for most Syrian opposition groups do to their nature/ideology (for him anything remotely Islamist that is not "official" is dangerous and terrorists). Then you have the US-Turkey (NATO split) due to a difference in opinion regarding the Kurds (YPG). At the same time the US, in case of losing Turkey (doubtful IMO), want something to threaten them with on the long-term and here the Kurds come into the picture.

Then you have Israel which is officially against Al-Assad (on paper) but have done little to truly remove him. We have Israeli users here and elsewhere openly admitting to preferring Al-Assad rule due to more stability and the Syrian-Israeli "border" being the most stable during the past 40 + years. Now Israel (my estimation at least) appears to be non-hostile to the Kurds. Probably together with the US. As well as not too hostile with the Syrian opposition but no real trust IMO. If Al-Assad did not have Iranian backing (partially) I believe that Israel would have little problem with him especially now after Russian interference since Russia and Israel have good ties.

Daesh are pretty much non-existent (confined to small parts of Eastern Syria and a tiny enclave in Southern Syria next to Jordan) nowadays and I have no idea if anybody is aiding them and if so why.

Oh and Jordan is basically worrying about securing its borders. Officially it is against Al-Assad but in reality it probably prefers and end to the conflict at it is a catastrophe for them much like its s for Lebanon. The Jordanian population are of course anti-Al-Assad (90% if not more).

Lebanon has no real government and is de facto ruled by Hezbollah hence their mostly pro-Al-Assad stance and obviously due to Hezbollah's heavy involvement in the conflict, Hezbollah is the Lebanese "official" representative.

Then you have KSA and the GCC. Pretty much left the arena expect for ties with certain Syrian opposition groups who are pretty much on their own and might receive support from KSA/GCC and Turkey but not much lately and especially not much after the Yemen war began in March 2015 and the lower oil prices (now back to more normal levels).

Well, I forgot Iraq whose main priority was to remove the Syrian-Iraqi border from Daesh control and prevent Daesh from escaping to Syria from Iraq and the other way around. The Iraqis have no love lost for Al-Asad due to what he did post 2003 (main logistical supporter of the insurgency) but most of the Iraqi Shia Arabs are behind Al-Assad compared to the opposition while Iraqi Sunni Arabs support the Syrian opposition. Kurds in Iraq support the Kurds in neighboring Syria and both are hostile against mostly Turkey and Al-Assad and Al-Abadi. Allied with the US and most likely Israel.

Did I miss something?

@HannibalBarca

In any case it will be almost impossible to solve this conflict until somebody knockouts another player or heavily wounds him. Can't see who that will be. This might go on for another 7 years, sadly.

 

[BHarwana]

Yep American pigs are supporting Daesh directly & indirectly...

They don’t want end of civil war in Syria. Truely Bastards.....

It seems so because the area where this drone is shot down is few of the last hot beds of IS in Syria. Israel defending the IS pocket in south and USA defending IS pocket in east only 2 pockets left of IS and both are protected by USA and Israel.

 

[HannibalBarca]

So let me get this straight:

Al-Assad is allied with Russia (Putin) and Iran (Khamenei) simultaneously who both compete for influence in Syria and disagree on certain key fronts.

Turkey (Erdogan) main priority is to prevent the establishment of a "Kurdistan" in Northern Syria and Iraq that would threaten their integrity. At the same time, Erdogan is a long-time (old) enemy of Al-Assad and allied (at least on paper) with MB-inspired Syrian opposition groups. On the other hand Iran has obvious dealings with YPG, as has Russia but less so (from what I can see). Yet Russia "turns the blind eye" to Iran aiding the YPG/arming against Turkey in Afrin. The same Russia is supposedly an ally of Turkey in the region and is officially against a Kurdish state in Syria while openly talking about the integrity of Syria.

Al-Assad himself is against the split of Syria (naturally) but is far more tolerating of YPG than he is of Syrian opposition groups other than YPG.

Both use Daesh (Al-Assad and Russia) against others, typically the Syrian opposition.

Then you have the US who are in Syria to prevent it from becoming an Iranian nest like Southern Lebanon and to try to challenge Russian influence in Syria. At the same time Trump has no love left for most Syrian opposition groups do to their nature/ideology (for him anything remotely Islamist that is not "official" is dangerous and terrorists). Then you have the US-Turkey (NATO split) due to a difference in opinion regarding the Kurds (YPG). At the same time the US, in case of losing Turkey (doubtful IMO), want something to threaten them with on the long-term and here the Kurds come into the picture.

Then you have Israel which is officially against Al-Assad (on paper) but have done little to truly remove him. We have Israeli users here and elsewhere openly admitting to preferring Al-Assad rule due to more stability and the Syrian-Israeli "border" being the most stable during the past 40 + years. Now Israel (my estimation at least) appears to be non-hostile to the Kurds. Probably together with the US. As well as not too hostile with the Syrian opposition but no real trust IMO. If Al-Assad did not have Iranian backing (partially) I believe that Israel would have little problem with him especially now after Russian interference since Russia and Israel have good ties.

Daesh are pretty much non-existent (confined to small parts of Eastern Syria and a tiny enclave in Southern Syria next to Jordan) nowadays and I have no idea if anybody is aiding them and if so why.

Oh and Jordan is basically worrying about securing its borders. Officially it is against Al-Assad but in reality it probably prefers and end to the conflict at it is a catastrophe for them much like its s for Lebanon. The Jordanian population are of course anti-Al-Assad (90% if not more).

Lebanon has no real government and is de facto ruled by Hezbollah hence their mostly pro-Al-Assad stance and obviously due to Hezbollah's heavy involvement in the conflict, Hezbollah is the Lebanese "official" representative.

Then you have KSA and the GCC. Pretty much left the arena expect for ties with certain Syrian opposition groups who are pretty much on their own and might receive support from KSA/GCC and Turkey but not much lately and especially not much after the Yemen war began in March 2015 and the lower oil prices (now back to more normal levels).

Did I miss something?

@HannibalBarca

In any case it will be almost impossible to solve this conflict until somebody knockouts another player or heavily wounds him. Can't see who that will be. This might go on for another 7 years, sadly.

Nope. You said it all.

 

[BHarwana]

Yep American pigs are supporting Daesh directly & indirectly...

They don’t want end of civil war in Syria. Truely Bastards.....

This is the actual image of the missile used to intercept released by Israeli media.
It was S-200(Vega) modified version that did the intercept. 8 Jets were sent on the mission to attack Syria by Israel after the intercept Jets were ordered to engage evasive maneuvers and returned. One missile landed in Lebanon.

the image of missile landing in Lebanon.

One Syrian missile landed in Northern Israel after damaging a F-14. The missile that landed in northern Israel.

This was the whole fight that happened today. in first attack.

 

[Dalit]

most of the ummah with us agianst iran
intresting times

LOL You are smoking too much of that Indian stuff.

No matter how you try to play this, the damage has been done. You lost one of your best fighters and that is no joke. IAF lost its so-called impeccable record today.

Most importantly, today's loss highlights that IAF is vulnerable.

 

[Aramagedon]

Iran Threats to destroy US bases after israeli F16 fighter jet shot down

'WE WILL BRING HELL' Iran’s chilling threat to destroy US bases after Israeli F16 fighter jet shot down

The Islamic Republic said it had the power to destroy all American bases in the region if it so desired.

IRAN'S military leader has warned that the Islamic Republic will "open the gates of hell" over Israel after the Jewish state retaliated to one of its planes being shot down over Syria.

An Israeli F16 fighter crashed after coming under fire from Syrian air defences during attacks against "Iranian targets" in the war-torn country this morning.


Lieutenant Commander of the country's Islamic Revolutionary Guards Corps Brigadier General Hossein Salami threatened both the US and Israel
Lieutenant Commander of the country's Islamic Revolutionary Guards Corps Brigadier General Hossein Salami made the comments earlier today

He also threatened the USA, claiming his country had the military power to destroy all American bases in the region.

Goading the Americans, he said they would be better "to leave the region before its defeat."

A spokesman for Iran's Supreme National Security Council said: "The era of Israeli strikes on Syria is over."

The exchange of fire was the most serious between arch foes Israel and Iran since the start of the civil war in Syria in 2011.



AFP OR LICENSORS

A search team sift through the wreckage of the downed fighter jet

AFP OR LICENSORS
The F16 crashed after coming under fire from Syrian anti-aircraft weapons
It marked the first time Israel publicly acknowledged attacking what it identified as Iranian targets in Syria since the war began.

The US has reaffirmed it's backing for Israel with the Pentagon saying it fully supports the Jewish state's right to defend itself.

Pentagon spokesman Adrian Rankine-Galloway said: "The [U.S.] Department of Defense did not participate in this military operation.

"Israel is our closest security partner in the region and we fully support Israel's inherent right to defend itself against threats to its territory and its people."

The Israeli military issued a warning to Tehran, saying it was responsible for the drone that entered Israel.

Israel has repeatedly warned in recent weeks against the presence of Iranian forces in neighbouring Syria.

The Israeli pilots of the crashed F16 were reported alive.


AFP
An Israeli F-16 fighter jet takes off (stock)

AFP OR LICENSORS
Police said the F16 crashed in the Jezreel valley in northern Israel
The Israeli military "targeted the Iranian control systems in Syria that sent the UAV (unmanned aerial vehicle) into Israeli airspace. Massive Syrian anti-air fire, one F16 crashed in Israel, pilots safe," spokesman Lieutenant Colonel Jonathan Conricus tweeted.

According to a separate military statement, Israeli forces identified an "Iranian UAV" launched from Syria and intercepted it in Israeli airspace with a combat helicopter.

Police said the F16 crashed in the Jezreel valley in northern Israel.

Low flying in an F16 jet
"During the attack, multiple anti-aircraft missiles were fired at IAF (Israel Air Force) aircraft," the military statement read.

"The pilots of one of the aircraft abandoned as per procedure. The pilots landed in Israeli territory and were taken to the hospital for medical treatment."

Conricus meanwhile said that the army had confirmed "accurate hits of (the) Iranian UAV control facility" in Syria.

"Iran is responsible for this severe violation of Israeli sovereignty," Conricus said on Twitter.

Syria said its air defences repelled two Israeli raids on its military bases in the centre of the country, hitting more than one warplane during the first.

"At dawn, the Zionist enemy carried out a new aggression against one of our military bases in the centre of the country," state news agency SANA reported.

"Our air defences repelled it and hit more than one plane."

Israel has sought to avoid direct involvement in the Syrian war, but acknowledges carrying out dozens of air strikes there to stop what it says are advanced arms deliveries to Hezbollah.

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/55447...argeting-iranian-drone-in-the-wartorn-country

 

[BHarwana]

This is the image of Drone that was shot down the wing piece shows it was Shahed 129 to my assessment.

 

[Saif al-Arab]

Nope. You said it all.

I could mention Egypt (Sisi) here who I believe is more pro-Al-Assad than against him although the official policy is to be neutral. Of course given Al-Sisi's upbringing in the Egyptian military and exposure to pan-Arabism ideology and himself being a military strongman, I believe that he sees some affinity with Al-Assad unlike what Morsi would have, ironically, given how KSA/UAE were against him.

Then there is the EU who care more about a humanitarian end to the conflict and whose politicians and populations care more about the refugee problem caused by the war and how to deal with it in fair way. Here most Southern European countries and especially Eastern European (Visegrad Group) are heavily against even taking Christian Syrians.

Not sure if there are other players that I have somehow missed other than factions within each of those major groups.

Anyway one thing is to make a diagnose, I am personally more interested in finding a solution as this obviously hurts the region and Arab countries the most. It also signals that the Arab world is up for grabs when you have entities such as Syria, Yemen and Libya. Luckily we are back to 3 rather than 4 (Iraq) as I believe that they are mostly "back on track" (wider picture and thank God for that). One less chaotic problem. Not to say the civilian casualties. I share the same view in Yemen. If the Houthi terrorist cult could somehow be contained to Sa'ada alone and trusted, I would get out. However that is not the case and you also risk making the problem and risks greater if you just leave. I feel that most participants in Syria feel the same way. They are afraid of losing influence, no matter how small it is or how confined it is or how unrealistic the prospect of complete hegemony for each party is.

Speaking about political organizations who could take a stand.

1) EU, has little power as a non-native organization and quite far from the action (closest members are Cyprus and Greece) and do not have the capability, agreement or will to act other than a wish for an humanitarian ending to the conflict as the new pro-democracy bastion (under Macron a role he has proclaimed for himself).

2) UN is paralyzed as long as the P5 member states can block everything politically by vetoing.

3) Then you have the Arab League which as a organization has been pretty much useless (with few exceptions) for the past 3-4 decades. Here even though a political agreement could be reached in theory you have disagreements, mostly Algeria, Iraq, Egypt (I believe they are pro Al-Assad) and the pro-MB and anti-MB (another useless disagreement) members. So here it is also impossible to reach an unanimous decision.

 

[HannibalBarca]

I could mention Egypt (Sisi) here who I believe is more pro-Al-Assad than against him although the official policy is to be neutral. Of course given Al-Sisi's upbringing in the Egyptian military and exposure to pan-Arabism ideology and himself being a military strongman, I believe that he sees some affinity with Al-Assad unlike what Morsi would have, ironically, given how KSA/UAE were against him.

Then there is the EU who care more about a humanitarian end to the conflict and whose politicians and populations care more about the refugee problem caused by the war and how to deal with it in fair way. Here most Southern European countries and especially Eastern European (Visegrad Group) are heavily against even taking Christian Syrians.

Not sure if there are other players that I have somehow missed other than factions within each of those major groups.

Anyway one thing is to make a diagnose, I am personally more interested in finding a solution as this obviously hurts the region and Arab countries the most. It also signals that the Arab world is up for grabs when you have entities such as Syria, Yemen and Libya. Luckily we are back to 3 rather than 4 (Iraq) as I believe that they are mostly "back on track" (wider picture and thank God for that). One less chaotic problem. Not to say the civilian casualties. I share the same view in Yemen. If the Houthi terrorist cult could somehow we contained trusted, I would get out. However that is not the case and you also risk making the problem and risks greater if you just leave. I feel that most participations in Syria feel the same. They are afraid of losing influence, no matter how small it is or how confined it is or how unrealistic the prospect of complete hegemony is.

Speaking about political organizations who could take a stand.

1) EU, has little power as a non-native organization and quite far from the action (closest members are Cyprus and Greece) and do not have the capability, agreement or will to act other than a wish for an humanitarian ending to the conflict as the new pro-democracy bastion (under Macron a role he has proclaimed for himself).

2) UN is paralyzed as long as the P5 member states can block everything politically by vetoing.

3) Then you have the Arab League which as a organization has been pretty much useless (with few exceptions) for the past 3-4 decades. Here even though a political agreement could be reached in theory you have disagreements, mostly Algeria, Iraq, Egypt (I believe they are pro Al-Assad) and the pro-MB and anti-MB (another useless disagreement) members. So here it is also impossible to reach an unanimous decision.

The paradox in all of that... no one is "good" enough to lead... or change things... right now.
And as History is our witness... reading a bit...and you will have one "observation"

"From Chaos...Order will rise..."

Everything has a purpose...And maybe this incoming Chaos... could/will be their salvation...

 

[BHarwana]

The missile that landed in Lebanon was SA-6 Kvadrat. This shows that S-200(Vega) is a better killer than all.

 

[Saif al-Arab]

The paradox in all of that... no one is "good" enough to lead... or change things... right now.
And as History is our witness... reading a bit...and you will have one "observation"

"From Chaos...Order will rise..."

Everything has a purpose...And maybe this incoming Chaos... could/will be their salvation...

Just a brutal way of establishing order for our Syrian brothers and sisters. It's really a tragedy. An entire generation destroyed. Hopes and dreams of millions destroyed for what exactly? The selfishness of a corrupt, brutal and non-represnetaive regime (sounds familiar for the region indeed) who wanted a few more years in the public spotlight and glory and who believed/believe that Syria and its future and people was given to him to decide on as a birth right like another demigod. Who saw enemies everywhere from a young age. You was/is ready to destroy most of his country to ensure even a little of that old power, just on paper today. Al-Assad has become his own victim ironically. Now reduced to a mere puppet. Everything that he hated about other regimes in the region he has become the embodiment of.

What I struggle to understand is, how Syrians themselves and the Syrian society could allow this situation to unfold. Yes, I know that in theory this could happen to every country, but it did not happen like this in Iraq. Despite much more instability and foreign meddling in the past 30-40 years (overall). What is is that made Syria, a proud nationalistic Arab country with an ancient history and a relatively well-defined identity like most Arab states, handle this so badly? Personally I believe it was the frustrations of 40 + years that came out back in 2011. 40 + years of martial law. Something like that, sometimes you cannot control it and it destroys you in the process if you are not smart and calculated. Maybe the Syrian opposition lacked a long-term plan and perspective? Can only the Al-Assad regime be blamed here or can we say that the Alawites as a whole (wider group of people) also played a key role given their hijacking of the military and country (government institutions) ever since the 1960's?

If just one party had been brave enough to move forward first and her I mean a real investment. Ala Yemen intervention back in 2015. That would have changed history. Instead it looked like this was almost planned in advance. Make the Al-Asad regime and Syrian opposition bleed themselves out for 3-4 years and their regional supporters (!), get rid of all those potential Jihadis based in Europe (from both sides) and afterwards wait and see until Putin moves in.

The funniest thing is that the Russians first moved in, back in September 2015. LONG after the annexation of Crimea and the Donbass war. Did the Europeans/West sleep or what throughout that entire time period (March 2014 and September 2015) time or was it another "Obama classic"?

 

[HannibalBarca]

.

Just a brutal way of establishing order for our Syrian brothers and sisters. It's really a tragedy. An entire generation destroyed. Hopes and dreams of millions destroyed for what exactly? The selfishness of a corrupt, brutal and non-represnetaive regime (sounds familiar for the region indeed) who wanted a few more years in the public spotlight and glory and who believed/believe that Syria and its future and people was given to him to decide on as a birth right like another demigod. Who saw enemies everywhere from a young age. You was/is ready to destroy most of his country to ensure even a little of that old power, just on paper today. Al-Assad has become his own victim ironically. Now reduced to a mere puppet. Everything that he hated about other regimes in the region he has become the embodiment of.

Welcome to the Human Kingdom...

What I struggle to understand is, how Syrians themselves and the Syrian society could allow this situation to unfold. Yes, I know that in theory this could happen to every country, but it did not happen like this in Iraq. Despite much more instability and foreign meddling in the past 30-40 years (overall).

Why did they let it happen? it's simple... Human nature...
And who told you Iraq situation is over...

What is is that made Syria, a proud nationalistic Arab country with an ancient history and a relatively well-defined identity like most Arab states, handle this so badly?

They saw others do it...they believed to be the same... but they weren't... they forgot their history...their differences...their hate...their future...
The world push us to believe in" globalisation" in being the same... sharing the same past and future..;and the same rights and duty... But we are not... and will never be...
Syrian revolution... should have been supported... by those holding power in this world... since their ppl weren't ready to accept their "shared" reality...

Personally I believe it was the frustrations of 40 + years that came out back in 2011. 40 + years of martial law. Something like that, sometimes you cannot control it and it destroys you in the process if you are not smart and calculated. Maybe the Syrian opposition lacked a long-term plan and perspective?

In revolutions... everything that made your past and will make your future will be added to this "revolutionary" group... Syrians lacked a "shared" vision of their future... they weren't made of only one group...

Can only the Al-Assad regime be blamed here can we say that the Alawites as a whole also played a key role given their hijacking of the military and country (government institutions) ever since the 1960's?

Ofc Assad has to be blamed for those atrocities... but not only him... His father... Pan-Arabism... the people who turned a blind eye to such system fro decades... thinking they will get a share..;a peace... a future...
A gov do not pop from nowhere... it's not forced upon his citizens (except invasion)... A gov is a collective "vision"... feed him and it will grow...respect it and it will respect you... corrupt him and it will corrupt you...

The funniest thing is that the Russian first moved in, back in September 2015. LONG after the annexation of Crimea and the Donbass war. Did the Europeans/West sleep or what throughout that entire time period (March 2014 and September 2015) time or was it another "Obama classic"?

Obama will be known as one of the worst President in US history... Someone who embodied every hope of a nation... Someone who had everything to succeed... to change the face of his nation and the world... But did nothing... he didn't have the guts to move... he wasn't a president of the strongest nation on earth... he was just an empty shell...who stayed alive... by a collective desire... mostly made of Hope... But As someone said... "Hope only feed the soul..."

Russians are opportunist... they always were... and what they did... is a masterpiece of Realpolitiks... they feed on the weakness , on the fear, on the hope of those who are lost cause... But they will make you believe..;that you will reborn...like a Phoenix... But after the contract... Russia will still keep hidden one fact... the most important one...
"Phoenix never existed..;and never will..."

 

[BHarwana]

Children playing jump after Israel F-16 shot down.

 

[gambit]

What if that radar transmits the position of what it "sees"-"but not really sees" to a FLIR, EOTS or IRST system or a combination of them.. which can see the stealth plane, let's say from 50-60 km away rather than 30 or even less?

Before you -- the radar trying to find the 'stealth' fighter -- shares any kind of data to anyone, you must be statistically certain of what you 'see'.

This...

...Is how any radar 'sees' any aircraft -- as a cluster of voltage spikes. The voltage spikes by themselves are not enough. Free space is filled with them from all sources. So the important word here is CLUSTER. Not only that, each voltage spike inside that cluster should have the same signal characteristics. Radars that are designed to provide high target accuracy must be discriminatory in assessing each voltage spike. If one spike does not conform, it will be discarded from target algorithm.

Once a radar signal bounced off a surface, at least one component of its signal characteristics is changed. Usually phase is flipped, so the seeking radar will be designed to accept phase flipping as an acceptable change.

http://ieeexplore.ieee.org/document/4404102/

In a pulsed radar system, the amplitude and sign of the echo from a particular target will depend on the phase of the echo signal relative to that of the local oscillator signal. If the wavelength of the radar signal is very short, the phase of the echo can change greatly if the target moves even slightly.

Therein lies the problem posed by 'stealth' platforms regarding the highlighted.

YOU -- the seeking radar -- is running a transmit freq of centimeters long, aka centimetric signals. The 'stealth' fighter produces echoes that are already low amplitude, now add in signal characteristics changes that ranges from phase flipping to pulse width or even the echo signal dies completely. So instead of you processing a cluster, you struggles to process voltage spikes that are sufficiently dissimilar to each other BEFORE you can determine if there is a cluster or not.

There is no radar system in the world that is designed to share this kind of erratic data.

This is not the same as multiple radars trying to process the same erratic set of echo signals. That is not data sharing. It is bi-static or multi-static radar configuration. A different discussion in trying to deal with 'stealth'.