Israeli Air Force Gears up to Strike Iran.

[Old School]

we're not talking about the saudis, but in case of Pakistan, I doubt that the pakistani government would side any one if It's wise.

Pakistani foreign policy on Iran will be the same as of the Saudis. Iranian diplomats and government official know this reality too. Just ask any Iranian government official.

 

[QWECXZ]

Pakistani foreign policy on Iran will be the same as of the Saudis. Iranian diplomats and government official know this reality too. Just ask any Iranian government official.

unfortunately I don't know any Iranian government official around me and I don't believe what they say either if you know pakistani officials you can ask them.

from what we see on the news, I can't agree with you that Pakistan's foreign policy is the same as of the saudi government. and even If It was, I don't think it would be a matter of importance in the issue.

 

[gambit]

yes, Iranian immigrant in USA live in a good situation but how much have they helped the US economy? they are one of the most well-educated and rich group of immigrants in the US.

What does that question imply?

how do you know the US doesn't persecute, kill and rape its own citizens? the foreign media can broadcast the reality inside Iran, but is there any powerful media out there to broadcast what the USA does to its own people? They possess the powerful media and they can show selectively whatever you're supposed to see.

That is an absurd argument. If Iranians can leak out videos of the shooting of Neda surely those Iranian immigrants living in the US can leak out videos of US citizens who received similar treatments, no? What about CAIR and assorted muslim related organizations? Are you saying that the US media control them as well? Try to have some semblance of logic and common sense.

what about the news of torture in the CIA? didn't they cover it up and said, if the national interests require, we would even torture?

What about them? I am a SERE graduate and yes, I do know what waterboarding feel like on the receiving end. Show me a source detailing what 'torture' techniques the CIA employ.

did you know the US is the 5th country of the world in terms of executions?

They were criminals like rapists and murderers, not political protesters like Neda, the Iranian girl who was shot.

what about the suppresion of the Californian students that they protested against Israel? why did they get attacked by the police?

Source please. Details matter.

but let me be exact, what the US does to its own people and what the US does in its own local affairs is not a matter of importance to me. so is Iran's affairs to others. as an Iranian I'm not in favor of our today's regime, but that doesn't mean I have to support the USA. It's not a case of my enemy's enemy is my friend for me.

No one asked you to.

 

[QWECXZ]

What does that question imply?

It wasn't a question, It was an answer.

That is an absurd argument. If Iranians can leak out videos of the shooting of Neda surely those Iranian immigrants living in the US can leak out videos of US citizens who received similar treatments, no? What about CAIR and assorted muslim related organizations? Are you saying that the US media control them as well? Try to have some semblance of logic and common sense.

you can search for Ali tabatabaee on youtube, an iranian student who got shocked in the UCLA i guess. but that's not something important. I was talking about american people not iranians living in the US.

What about them? I am a SERE graduate and yes, I do know what waterboarding feel like on the receiving end. Show me a source detailing what 'torture' techniques the CIA employ.

It doesn't take much time for you to search about the torture techniques the CIA has employed and is still employing. I'm sure you know pretty well what I'm talking about. I'm talking about the CIA tortures during the Bush administration which were revealed later but the Obama administration found it against the national interests to be investigated.

They were criminals like rapists and murderers, not political protesters like Neda, the Iranian girl who was shot.

what's the difference? execution is execution. who knows that they all were criminals? the Iranian regime says the same thing, they say all people they execute every year are just murderers and rapists.

Source please. Details matter.

see this link then:
Student protests at speech of Israeli ambassador at California campus raise free speech issues : First Amendment Coalition

you can find more sources on the net if you google. I wonder why the american media didn't cover it well enough.

No one asked you to.

No one asked you either to stick your nose into Iran's local affairs. no one asked you to support the iranian people either. meanwhile, no one asked you to reply to my post. lol

 

[gambit]

It wasn't a question, It was an answer.

Quite a meaningless one.

you can search for Ali tabatabaee on youtube, an iranian student who got shocked in the UCLA i guess. but that's not something important. I was talking about american people not iranians living in the US.

So am I. If you are going to make the charge that the US government treats its citizens the same way the Iranian government its citizens, provide credible sources.

It doesn't take much time for you to search about the torture techniques the CIA has employed and is still employing. I'm sure you know pretty well what I'm talking about. I'm talking about the CIA tortures during the Bush administration which were revealed later but the Obama administration found it against the national interests to be investigated.

When people speaks of torture, the context is usually pulling of fingernails, for starter, and escalate up to something horrific like what the sons of Saddam Hussein did to young girls and football players who lost a match. In SERE...

SERE - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Survival, Evasion, Resistance and Escape - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

We were taught about regimes like Iran, Iraq, China, Russia, even Venezuela, routinely uses torture technique that made what SERE has the equivalent of the TV show 'Man versus Wild'. What we experienced in SERE would qualify as 'torture' only in the most comprehensive context. I heard the UK's version of SERE is even harsher than ours.

what's the difference? execution is execution. who knows that they all were criminals? the Iranian regime says the same thing, they say all people they execute every year are just murderers and rapists.

Wrong...The reason for the execution is very important. It is amusing and very revealing about YOU reading the above. It contradict everything you claimed about yourself regarding how you oppose the current Iranian regime. It also revealed a willful disregard for logical thought processes. Ever wonder why these regimes always classified political prisoners as common criminals charged with civil crimes like rapes or robbery or murders? Because they know that the true charge against them, political dissent, and the subsequent persecution of the dissenters, essentially rendered the regime illegitimate. And here you are trying desperately to associate genuine criminals in the US with persecuted political prisoners in odious regimes like Iran or NKR. Like it or not, you ARE defending the mullahs.

see this link then:
Student protests at speech of Israeli ambassador at California campus raise free speech issues : First Amendment Coalition

you can find more sources on the net if you google. I wonder why the american media didn't cover it well enough.

If you can find it then it is covered well enough. Still...What you brought on is old news and inappropriate at that. Let us take a brief look...

Student protests at speech of Israeli ambassador at California campus raise free speech issues : First Amendment Coalition

All of this raises the question: Is interrupting a campus speaker ever a legitimate form of free expression?

Most higher education leaders welcome vocal protests outside a speaking venue and quiet protest (leaflets, for example) inside, but draw the line at interrupting speakers.

Many other experts on free speech and protest agree — and some are disappointed that national organizations are defending the right to shout repeatedly during a campus talk.

So as we can see...The students were not arrested because of their views but because of their disruptive behavior in a controlled environment. The venue is supposed to encourage an EQUITABLE exchange of opinions, not lopsided shouting by one side to shut out the other, which is what happened. But then again, I should not be surprised at how quickly people disregard details and logical thought processes when it come to US.

No one asked you either to stick your nose into Iran's local affairs. no one asked you to support the iranian people either.

Some Iranians do and did asked.

meanwhile, no one asked you to reply to my post. lol

This is a publicly accessible forum. If you do not like to be challenged, do not participate and expressed your opinion. Quite a juvenile response.

 

[Hussein]

Like it or not, you ARE defending the mullahs.

that it is not that simple.

they are some very humanist mullahs
most grand ayatollahs support the green
i know this very much being myself from religious family. i never learned it was good to have a dictatorship, i never learned woman was inferior, i never learned that US is devil, so on...

i understand anyway some Iranians in Europe especially and in US less, they are hating religion. I can see it in France when i am here. But they are not the Iranians of Iran.
Not a long time ago i had a speech with a guy who escaped the country when he was 7 years old and believed he could speak of the country when he didn't know anything about it.
He was hiding being Iranian, he always said Iranians inside were bastards, and now he is kind of proud and says to be for green but anti mousavi, without saying it much publicly.

Of course most Iranians are smart and not violent in speech but some of them in foreign countries are very much full of hatred and exagerate a lot with using bad words.

One of them is "the problem is mullahs" .
How could someone say he has some intelligence and use this kiddish sentence. In the old past of France when church got a lot of power, nobody could say "the power of priests".

More than this, in Iran people are educated and most religious figures clearly showed (when they can because it is hard to say something in Iran nowadays. it became very hard dictatorship) they don't agree with violence.

 

[QWECXZ]

1)Quite a meaningless one.


2)So am I. If you are going to make the charge that the US government treats its citizens the same way the Iranian government its citizens, provide credible sources.


3)When people speaks of torture, the context is usually pulling of fingernails, for starter, and escalate up to something horrific like what the sons of Saddam Hussein did to young girls and football players who lost a match. In SERE...

SERE - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Survival, Evasion, Resistance and Escape - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

4)We were taught about regimes like Iran, Iraq, China, Russia, even Venezuela, routinely uses torture technique that made what SERE has the equivalent of the TV show 'Man versus Wild'. What we experienced in SERE would qualify as 'torture' only in the most comprehensive context. I heard the UK's version of SERE is even harsher than ours.


5)Wrong...The reason for the execution is very important. It is amusing and very revealing about YOU reading the above. It contradict everything you claimed about yourself regarding how you oppose the current Iranian regime. It also revealed a willful disregard for logical thought processes. Ever wonder why these regimes always classified political prisoners as common criminals charged with civil crimes like rapes or robbery or murders? Because they know that the true charge against them, political dissent, and the subsequent persecution of the dissenters, essentially rendered the regime illegitimate. And here you are trying desperately to associate genuine criminals in the US with persecuted political prisoners in odious regimes like Iran or NKR. Like it or not, you ARE defending the mullahs.


6)If you can find it then it is covered well enough. Still...What you brought on is old news and inappropriate at that. Let us take a brief look...

Student protests at speech of Israeli ambassador at California campus raise free speech issues : First Amendment Coalition

7)So as we can see...The students were not arrested because of their views but because of their disruptive behavior in a controlled environment. The venue is supposed to encourage an EQUITABLE exchange of opinions, not lopsided shouting by one side to shut out the other, which is what happened. But then again, I should not be surprised at how quickly people disregard details and logical thought processes when it come to US.


8)Some Iranians do and did asked.


9)This is a publicly accessible forum. If you do not like to be challenged, do not participate and expressed your opinion. Quite a juvenile response.

1) It isn't you who decides what is meaningless or not, It's the readers who decide that and you here is just someone who is participating in a debate.


2) the word credible resources is funny. you're trying to make a way for saying those sources are not credible. that sounds like "mine is right, yours is B.S" like children. lol

3) unlike you, I've never been working in any army seriously. but drawing off fingernails is the least thing they do in a professional security agency like the CIA. If the obama administration had let the torture case be investigated and revealed, then I would've been expected to provide sources, but when it had refused to do so, I'm not expected to provide anything.
can you provide "credible sources" about the tortures techniques the iranian regime does?

4) It's pretty funny that you're trying to defend yourself against the Iranian regime. I'm not the speaker of the iranian regime. so you can't expect me to respond to this.

5) I didn't claim people executed in the US were political activists, but due to lack of observation over the US prisons, no one can deny such claims either. how can you be sure that they are not covering anything when there's no superior power to watch over the US?. and the things you're saying about the iranian regime are just claims. those are the things YOU say, and I'm not in the position to answer them

6) how many news papers are published in the US? and how many of them published it? since one or two news papers published the report it doesn't mean it has been covered well enough. what percentage of the US newspapers covered it? less than 1%. plus, the website I gave wasn't a giant media. so you can't say It's been published at all.

7) lmao. this one was hella funny. That's exactly what the Iranian regime says. so as we can see, you both are doing the same.

8) It's because iranians know the problem. they've realized that the system is poisoned. but americans haven't realized the problem yet.

9) If I hadn't believed in that, I wouldn't have responded to your post.

10) I'm not supporting the iranian regime. even If the iranian regime was the worst and wildest regime in the world it still doesn't prove that the american system is good. trying to lable me as a supporter of the iranian regime is just a method of psychological warfare to escape the challenge.

 

[H2O3C4Nitrogen]

Would you like a nuclear weaponed Iran on your border or not?

Its a simple question and i dont want the talk going anything related to India. Please answer in simple words.

I guess GOP dosent have any problem with Iran Armed with Nukes. Pakistan enjoys healthy relations especially in the Bilateral economic arena.
However owing to the fact that Israel once tried to Bomb Pakistani Nuclear Installation in the Past from Indian soil, having an Iran equiped with Nukes will ofcourse diverge Israel's focus more off the Pakistani Nukes thus there shouldn't be any problem with Iran having Nukes.

 

[Thomas]

Iran's facilities are open for the agency experts and ALL Iranian facilities has been equipped with cameras by the agency to observe what's going on in there. you claim Iran is not cooperating with the agency, That's okay, the world has the right to be worrying about the proliferation of atomic weapons, but have you proved anything yet? saying someone is guilty of something isn't enough, you can't go to court with only claims.

if you're referring to the appendix of the NPT that it states Iran should open its weaponry factories which Iran didn't sign it, then I can promise you that Iran will never do that cause It's not reasonable and any country that thinks it has the ability to go into war with Iran is welcomed to do so.

actually Iran turned the cameras off and broke the IAEA seals on the monitoring equipment when they resumed enrichment. They also still refuse IAEA unannounced inspections to verify NPT compliance. There is also enough circumstantial evidence to show Iranian military involvement in the nuclear program. And not all the intelligence comes from the U.S. but from the E.U. as well.


I agree with you that Iran will never comply. That is why war is inevitable.

 

[QWECXZ]

actually Iran turned the cameras off and broke the IAEA seals on the monitoring equipment when they resumed enrichment. They also still refuse IAEA unannounced inspections to verify NPT compliance. There is also enough circumstantial evidence to show Iranian military involvement in the nuclear program. And not all the intelligence comes from the U.S. but from the E.U. as well.


I agree with you that Iran will never comply. That is why war is inevitable.

can you provide any announcement from the IAEA referring to the points you made? Iran has been enriching uranium for years after 'Ahmadi Nejad' came to power and It has never stopped its enrichment to resume it again during the A.N era. with respect to you, your information seems to be wrong. well, I agree that All the intelligence doesn't come from the USA only, but why don't you talk about China, Russia and some other countries which they don't agree with you?

well, if you see war as unavoidable and you have the ability to launch a military strike now, what are you waiting for? I'm wondering.

 

[Thomas]

can you provide any announcement from the IAEA referring to the points you made? Iran has been enriching uranium for years after 'Ahmadi Nejad' came to power and It has never stopped its enrichment to resume it again during the A.N era. with respect to you, your information seems to be wrong. well, I agree that All the intelligence doesn't come from the USA only, but why don't you talk about China, Russia and some other countries which they don't agree with you?

well, if you see war as unavoidable and you have the ability to launch a military strike now, what are you waiting for? I'm wondering.

Paris agreement of 2004 - Under the terms of the Paris Agreement, on November 14, 2004, Iran's chief nuclear negotiator announced a voluntary and temporary suspension of its uranium enrichment program.

http://www.iaea.org/Publications/Documents/Infcircs/2004/infcirc637.pdf

Iran reaffirms that, in accordance with Article II of the NPT, it does not and will
not seek to acquire nuclear weapons. It commits itself to full cooperation and
transparency with the IAEA. Iran will continue implementing voluntarily the Additional
Protocol pending ratification. (the additional protocol allows for unannounced inspections)

To build further confidence, Iran has decided, on a voluntary basis, to continue
and extend its suspension to include all enrichment related and reprocessing activities,
and specifically: the manufacture and import of gas centrifuges and their components;
the assembly, installation, testing or operation of gas centrifuges; work to undertake any
plutonium separation, or to construct or operate any plutonium separation installation;
and all tests or production at any uranium conversion installation. The IAEA will be
notified of this suspension and invited to verify and monitor it.

 

[QWECXZ]

Paris agreement of 2004 - Under the terms of the Paris Agreement, on November 14, 2004, Iran's chief nuclear negotiator announced a voluntary and temporary suspension of its uranium enrichment program.

http://www.iaea.org/Publications/Documents/Infcircs/2004/infcirc637.pdf

Yes, I know, but That was during the Khatami era. AhmadiNejad took the office in 2005. and if you read my previous post again, you will notice the difference between What I said and What you misunderstood. plus, Iran announced a voluntary and temporary suspension of its enrichment program. that means Iran wasn't sentenced by the IEAE and since It was mentioned to be a temporary suspension, you can't say that Iran has violated any rule.

 

[H2O3C4Nitrogen]

Ok if the wars inevitable , What if the Iran has couple of nukes and would respond by nuking Israel and the Oil feilds of Arab counteries . Is the West prepared for a chaotic scenario like that ..!!! Absolute Power Corrupts .
Attacking Iran would be an act of desperation and would backfire and that would take half a century to pick up the pieces of broken crockery .

 

[Thomas]

Yes, I know, but That was during the Khatami era. AhmadiNejad took the office in 2005. and if you read my previous post again, you will notice the difference between What I said and What you misunderstood. plus, Iran announced a voluntary and temporary suspension of its enrichment program. that means Iran wasn't sentenced by the IEAE and since It was mentioned to be a temporary suspension, you can't say that Iran has violated any rule.

Look......The bottom line can be expressed in the words of the IAEA head at the time Dr. ElBaradei.

Iran Begins Removal of IAEA Seals at Enrichment-related Locations

"In Dr. ElBaradei´s view, maintaining the suspension, resuming the dialogue with all concerned parties, and providing the necessary cooperation and transparency to the IAEA are conditions for a comprehensive and equitable solution that ensures Iran´s right to peaceful nuclear activities while assuring the international community of the peaceful nature of its nuclear programme."

The IAEA still considers Iran to be in breach of the NPT for a reason. If Iran's Nuke program was peaceful it would have nothing to fear in completely opening up to the IAEA. Which includes unannounced inspections.

 

[QWECXZ]

Look......The bottom line can be expressed in the words of the IAEA head at the time Dr. ElBaradei.

Iran Begins Removal of IAEA Seals at Enrichment-related Locations

"In Dr. ElBaradei´s view, maintaining the suspension, resuming the dialogue with all concerned parties, and providing the necessary cooperation and transparency to the IAEA are conditions for a comprehensive and equitable solution that ensures Iran´s right to peaceful nuclear activities while assuring the international community of the peaceful nature of its nuclear programme."

The IAEA still considers Iran to be in breach of the NPT for a reason. If Iran's Nuke program was peaceful it would have nothing to fear in completely opening up to the IAEA. Which includes unannounced inspections.

the report is old. last time I checked the USA and its allies attacked ElBaradei because they taught elbaradei was siding with Iran. Elbaradei insisted that Iran's nuclear programme is for power producing purposes and if you remember correctly, during his last speech, he mentioned that the western powers kept pressuring him on Iran's nuclear programme.

the reason that the west is putting pressure on Iran is Iran rejects to open up its weaponry facilities to the agency. why should Iran do so? such an action would completely endanger Iran's national security. plus, Iran signed the NPT like 35 years ago during the Shah era, why should Iran sign the appendixes too when the other sides of the TREATY hasn't been honoring their obligations toward Iran?