Israeli Air Force Gears up to Strike Iran.

[Thomas]

Excerpts: IAEA report on Iran nuclear programme
Excerpts from the International Atomic Energy Agency's report on Iran's nuclear enrichment programme, dated 18 February 2010:
BBC News - Excerpts: IAEA report on Iran nuclear programme

IAEA CONCERNS

The information available to the agency is extensive and has been collected from a variety of sources over time. This raises concerns about the possible existence in Iran of past or current undisclosed activities related to the development of a nuclear payload for a missile.

These alleged activities consist of a number of projects and sub-projects, covering nuclear and missile-related aspects, run by military related organisations.

ALLEGED ACTIVITIES

Among the activities which the agency has attempted to discuss with Iran are: activities involving high-precision detonators fired simultaneously; studies on the initiation of high explosives and missile re-entry body engineering... and various procurement-related activities.

Specifically, the agency has... sought clarification of the following: whether Iran's exploding bridgewire detonator activities were solely for civil or conventional military purposes; whether Iran developed a spherical implosion system, possibly with the assistance of a foreign expert knowledgeable in explosives technology; whether the engineering design and computer modelling studies aimed at producing a new design for the payload chamber of a missile were for a nuclear payload; and the relationship between various attempts by senior Iranian officials with links to military organisations in Iran to obtain nuclear-related technology and equipment.

The agency would also like to discuss with Iran: the project and management structure of alleged activities related to nuclear explosives; nuclear-related safety arrangements for a number of the alleged projects; details relating to the manufacture of components for high explosives initiation systems; and experiments concerning the generation and detection of neutrons.

Since August 2008, Iran has declined to discuss the above issues with the agency or to provide any further information and access (to locations and/or people) to address these concerns, asserting that the allegations relating to possible military dimensions to its nuclear programme are baseless and that the information to which the agency is referring is based on forgeries.

SUMMARY

Iran has not provided the necessary co-operation to permit the agency to confirm that all nuclear material in Iran is in peaceful activities.

Iran is not implementing the requirements contained in the relevant resolutions of the board of governors and the security council... which are essential to building confidence in the exclusively peaceful purpose of its nuclear programme and to resolve outstanding questions.

In particular, Iran needs to co-operate in clarifying outstanding issues which give rise to concerns about possible military dimensions to Iran's nuclear programme.

Contrary to the relevant resolutions of the board of governors and the security council, Iran has continued with the operation of PFEP and FEP at Natanz, and the construction of a new enrichment plant at Fordow. Iran has also announced the intention to build 10 new enrichment plants.

Contrary to the relevant resolutions of the board of governors and the security council, Iran has also continued with the construction of the IR-40 reactor and related heavy water activities. The agency has not been permitted to take samples of the heavy water which is stored at UCF, and has not been provided with access to the heavy water production plant.

The director general requests Iran to take steps towards the full implementation of its safeguards agreement and its other obligations.

 

[QWECXZ]

Excerpts: IAEA report on Iran nuclear programme
Excerpts from the International Atomic Energy Agency's report on Iran's nuclear enrichment programme, dated 18 February 2010:
BBC News - Excerpts: IAEA report on Iran nuclear programme

IAEA CONCERNS

The information available to the agency is extensive and has been collected from a variety of sources over time. This raises concerns about the possible existence in Iran of past or current undisclosed activities related to the development of a nuclear payload for a missile.

These alleged activities consist of a number of projects and sub-projects, covering nuclear and missile-related aspects, run by military related organisations.

ALLEGED ACTIVITIES

Among the activities which the agency has attempted to discuss with Iran are: activities involving high-precision detonators fired simultaneously; studies on the initiation of high explosives and missile re-entry body engineering... and various procurement-related activities.

Specifically, the agency has... sought clarification of the following: whether Iran's exploding bridgewire detonator activities were solely for civil or conventional military purposes; whether Iran developed a spherical implosion system, possibly with the assistance of a foreign expert knowledgeable in explosives technology; whether the engineering design and computer modelling studies aimed at producing a new design for the payload chamber of a missile were for a nuclear payload; and the relationship between various attempts by senior Iranian officials with links to military organisations in Iran to obtain nuclear-related technology and equipment.

The agency would also like to discuss with Iran: the project and management structure of alleged activities related to nuclear explosives; nuclear-related safety arrangements for a number of the alleged projects; details relating to the manufacture of components for high explosives initiation systems; and experiments concerning the generation and detection of neutrons.

Since August 2008, Iran has declined to discuss the above issues with the agency or to provide any further information and access (to locations and/or people) to address these concerns, asserting that the allegations relating to possible military dimensions to its nuclear programme are baseless and that the information to which the agency is referring is based on forgeries.

SUMMARY

Iran has not provided the necessary co-operation to permit the agency to confirm that all nuclear material in Iran is in peaceful activities.

Iran is not implementing the requirements contained in the relevant resolutions of the board of governors and the security council... which are essential to building confidence in the exclusively peaceful purpose of its nuclear programme and to resolve outstanding questions.

In particular, Iran needs to co-operate in clarifying outstanding issues which give rise to concerns about possible military dimensions to Iran's nuclear programme.

Contrary to the relevant resolutions of the board of governors and the security council, Iran has continued with the operation of PFEP and FEP at Natanz, and the construction of a new enrichment plant at Fordow. Iran has also announced the intention to build 10 new enrichment plants.

Contrary to the relevant resolutions of the board of governors and the security council, Iran has also continued with the construction of the IR-40 reactor and related heavy water activities. The agency has not been permitted to take samples of the heavy water which is stored at UCF, and has not been provided with access to the heavy water production plant.

The director general requests Iran to take steps towards the full implementation of its safeguards agreement and its other obligations.

Yes, and as I said in my first posts, I completely accept that the world should be worrying about Iran's nuclear programme and the proliferation of atomic weapons, but even in this report, the IAEA didn't condemn Iran to pursuing nuclear weapons. It was the first report of the agency after elbaradei left the office.

like 2 weeks ago, Iran accepted to let the agency experts visit Arak's heavy water plant. the refusal of accepting that before can be a mater of controversy but still it doesn't PROVE Iran is pursuing nuclear weapons. but let's be fair, have the other sides of the treaty honored their obligations so far? why should Iran trust the west when they have never done anything constructive to boost trust?

plus, being under the direct threat of the US and its ally Israel, It sounds completely rational that Iran wants to spread its nuclear facilities to reduce the chance of being damaged by a possible strike. so That's pretty understandable why Iran is planning for the construction of more enrichment sites.

one more question that I want you to clarify it for me, why the IAEA doesn't show the same interest to know more about Israel's nuclear programme?

 

[gambit]

1) It isn't you who decides what is meaningless or not, It's the readers who decide that and you here is just someone who is participating in a debate.

I say it is meaningless for me. The readers can decide for themselves.

2) the word credible resources is funny. you're trying to make a way for saying those sources are not credible. that sounds like "mine is right, yours is B.S" like children. lol

No...Am saying that if you are going claim that the US persecute political dissent, provide credible sources. lol

3) unlike you, I've never been working in any army seriously. but drawing off fingernails is the least thing they do in a professional security agency like the CIA. If the obama administration had let the torture case be investigated and revealed, then I would've been expected to provide sources, but when it had refused to do so, I'm not expected to provide anything.
can you provide "credible sources" about the tortures techniques the iranian regime does?

As you wish...

How Ahmad Batebi Survived Torture In Iran - 60 Minutes - CBS News

"They kicked me in the teeth and broke them. There was a toilet that was stopped up with feces. They put my head into the toilet," he said.

Batebi told Cooper the bottom of his feet and his back were beaten with a cable, and that his testicles were beaten as well.

Asked how long this went on for, Batebi said, "This happened the whole time I was in solitary confinement. It also happened at other times."

Human rights groups don't know how much torture takes place in Iran's prisons. But three years ago, Iran's judiciary did publicly admit that torture was used to extract confessions.

"It's part of the torture that they use to get a confession or to convince people not to commit another crime," Batebi replied.

Public hangings in Iran are especially cruel - instead of a quick drop to break their neck, the doomed are lifted up by a crane so they suffocate slowly.

Human rights activists say two teenaged boys were executed for being gay, but Iran's government says they raped a child. Iran executed more than 300 people last year, second only to China. The vast majority of executions were by slow hanging.

"The Islamic penal code includes a number of punishments which are torture under international law such as flogging, amputations, and stoning," explained Hadi Ghaemi, who leads a New York-based group called the International Campaign for Human Rights on Iran.

'Torture, murder and rape' — Iran’s way of breaking the opposition - Times Online

Some testified that prisoners were subjected to torture including beatings, electrocution and having their toenails torn out.

Female rape victims were mostly held for days, not weeks, like the men. Some said that their jailers claimed to have “religious sanction” to violate them as they were “morally dirty”.

He continued: “There are no few stories about the rape of girls and boys in prison. I say to myself three decades after the revolution and two decades after the death of the Imam [Ayatollah Khomeini] — what place have we reached?”

Now...Can you show the readers if any of the loud mouthed students at UC Irvine suffered similar fates after they were ejected from the lecture hall?

4) It's pretty funny that you're trying to defend yourself against the Iranian regime. I'm not the speaker of the iranian regime. so you can't expect me to respond to this.

Nope...Am pointing out, or rather asking you, to show the readers how the oh-so-scary CIA torture prisoners.

5) I didn't claim people executed in the US were political activists, but due to lack of observation over the US prisons, no one can deny such claims either. how can you be sure that they are not covering anything when there's no superior power to watch over the US?. and the things you're saying about the iranian regime are just claims. those are the things YOU say, and I'm not in the position to answer them

Says who? You? Based on what criteria can you say that US prisons are filled with political dissenters and that no one is watching over them? Yours is the appeal to ignorance argument. Look it up.

6) how many news papers are published in the US? and how many of them published it? since one or two news papers published the report it doesn't mean it has been covered well enough. what percentage of the US newspapers covered it? less than 1%. plus, the website I gave wasn't a giant media. so you can't say It's been published at all.

This is the typical inconsistent argument when it come to free speech in the US compared to MEastern despotic regimes. It is somewhat narcissistic as well. What you are saying is that because major newspapers like the NY Times or the LA Times or USA Today, all quite liberal and anti-Bush/conservative prints, did not report your little local news item, therefore it is 'evident' that there is media oppression or collusion among the major news prints to hide political oppression in the US. Ever consider the possibility that after they examined the details of the event, something that you obviously failed to do, they found the story to be a non-story?

The most that CAIR... CAIR > Home ... managed to milk out of that event is a bland statement...

Student protests at speech of Israeli ambassador at California campus raise free speech issues : First Amendment Coalition

“The students voiced political views to shame the representative of a foreign government embroiled in controversy for its outrageous violations of international humanitarian and human rights law. Delivering this message in a loud and shocking manner expressed the gravity of the charges leveled against Israeli policies, and falls within the purview of protected speech,” said a letter released by the Council on American-Islamic Relations. That statement followed one by Salam Al-Marayati, executive director of the Muslim Public Affairs Council, which said: “These students had the courage and conscience to stand up against aggression, using peaceful means. We cannot allow our educational institutions to be used as a platform to threaten and discourage students who choose to practice their First Amendment right.”

Nothing about if any of the UC Irvine students suffered at the hands of the state anywhere to the level of their Iranian collegiate brothers and sisters. If anyone who should be monitoring this closely would be CAIR, Human Rights Watch or Amnessty International. But what we have is zilch. CAIR's leadership probably behind closed doors considered the event to be a waste of blood sugar to even type up that bland statement.

7) lmao. this one was hella funny. That's exactly what the Iranian regime says. so as we can see, you both are doing the same.

It is funny but in a sad way. The streets of America have been proven to be effective venues for political dissenting speech, from calling a sitting US President names such as adulterer and war criminal to pointing out America's societal ills. Whereas the streets of Iran under the mullahs today proved to be shooting ranges with live targets.

10) I'm not supporting the iranian regime. even If the iranian regime was the worst and wildest regime in the world it still doesn't prove that the american system is good. trying to lable me as a supporter of the iranian regime is just a method of psychological warfare to escape the challenge.

Common wisdom compels people not to seek for what is 'good' but to seek for what is 'better' than the current situation they are in at that time. That is why we see war refugees fleeing to a neighboring country even though this neighbor may not be any better of a government. Frankly, we Americans really do not care if anyone consider our country to be 'good' or not. But if the current immigration problem we have with Mexico is any indicator, it is that we are 'better' than Mexico. Same thing for between US and Iran. We do not care if you or any Iranian consider US to be 'good' or not, only that you are intellectually honest enough to examine the details, apply logical thinking, and be willing to admit that we are 'better'. By demanding that we live up to impossible standards, those impossible standards afford you the way to indirectly shill for the mullahs and give them the latitude to do what they did to your fellow Iranians as shown above.

 

[Thomas]

Yes, and as I said in my first posts, I completely accept that the world should be worrying about Iran's nuclear programme and the proliferation of atomic weapons, but even in this report, the IAEA didn't condemn Iran to pursuing nuclear weapons. It was the first report of the agency after elbaradei left the office.

like 2 weeks ago, Iran accepted to let the agency experts visit Arak's heavy water plant. the refusal of accepting that before can be a mater of controversy but still it doesn't PROVE Iran is pursuing nuclear weapons. but let's be fair, have the other sides of the treaty honored their obligations so far? why should Iran trust the west when they have never done anything constructive to boost trust?

plus, being under the direct threat of the US and its ally Israel, It sounds completely rational that Iran wants to spread its nuclear facilities to reduce the chance of being damaged by a possible strike. so That's pretty understandable why Iran is planning for the construction of more enrichment sites.

one more question that I want you to clarify it for me, why the IAEA doesn't show the same interest to know more about Israel's nuclear programme?

Israel was never a signer of the NPT and therefor not subject to it. However Personally I think Israel should open up to the IAEA. In fact I think the goal should be the elimination of all nuclear weapons. I do not believe though that is obtainable.

Iran is a signer of the NPT. And it doesn't matter if it was the Shah's regime that signed it or not. The reason Iran is viewed with such alarm when it comes to their nuke program. Is they are supporters of groups internationally recognized as terrorists. They make inflammatory statements calling into question Israels existence and chant death to America. Then expect everyone to believe them when they say their nuke program is for peaceful power generation. That doesn't garner to much goodwill or trust with the international community.

There is enough circumstantial evidence to suggest that Iran is pursuing a nuclear weapons program. And until Iran can prove otherwise it will be on a collision course with the west.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/02/18/iran-may-be-working-on-nu_n_467735.html

 

[below_freezing]

Quite a meaningless one.


So am I. If you are going to make the charge that the US government treats its citizens the same way the Iranian government its citizens, provide credible sources.


When people speaks of torture, the context is usually pulling of fingernails, for starter, and escalate up to something horrific like what the sons of Saddam Hussein did to young girls and football players who lost a match. In SERE...

SERE - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Survival, Evasion, Resistance and Escape - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

We were taught about regimes like Iran, Iraq, China, Russia, even Venezuela, routinely uses torture technique that made what SERE has the equivalent of the TV show 'Man versus Wild'. What we experienced in SERE would qualify as 'torture' only in the most comprehensive context. I heard the UK's version of SERE is even harsher than ours.


Wrong...The reason for the execution is very important. It is amusing and very revealing about YOU reading the above. It contradict everything you claimed about yourself regarding how you oppose the current Iranian regime. It also revealed a willful disregard for logical thought processes. Ever wonder why these regimes always classified political prisoners as common criminals charged with civil crimes like rapes or robbery or murders? Because they know that the true charge against them, political dissent, and the subsequent persecution of the dissenters, essentially rendered the regime illegitimate. And here you are trying desperately to associate genuine criminals in the US with persecuted political prisoners in odious regimes like Iran or NKR. Like it or not, you ARE defending the mullahs.


If you can find it then it is covered well enough. Still...What you brought on is old news and inappropriate at that. Let us take a brief look...

Student protests at speech of Israeli ambassador at California campus raise free speech issues : First Amendment Coalition

So as we can see...The students were not arrested because of their views but because of their disruptive behavior in a controlled environment. The venue is supposed to encourage an EQUITABLE exchange of opinions, not lopsided shouting by one side to shut out the other, which is what happened. But then again, I should not be surprised at how quickly people disregard details and logical thought processes when it come to US.


Some Iranians do and did asked.


This is a publicly accessible forum. If you do not like to be challenged, do not participate and expressed your opinion. Quite a juvenile response.

hi. US prisoners of war taken by China were treated very humanely. For one, they recieved food, which many Chinese soldiers did not have at least in Korea.

The torture on them was inflicted by the undisciplined North Koreans and North Vietnamese. I won't comment on whether the US tortures or not.

 

[Thomas]

hi. US prisoners of war taken by China were treated very humanely. For one, they recieved food, which many Chinese soldiers did not have at least in Korea.

The torture on them was inflicted by the undisciplined North Koreans and North Vietnamese. I won't comment on whether the US tortures or not.

I think you have threads mixed up.

 

[H2O3C4Nitrogen]

so a guy having a SERE training can escape Gitmo or abu gharib..?? PPl in Gitmo and abu gharib were subjected to sick torture so much that they prayed that they should have been dead rather that being imprisoned there ..!!!

 

[QWECXZ]

I say it is meaningless for me. The readers can decide for themselves.


No...Am saying that if you are going claim that the US persecute political dissent, provide credible sources. lol


As you wish...

How Ahmad Batebi Survived Torture In Iran - 60 Minutes - CBS News


'Torture, murder and rape' — Iran’s way of breaking the opposition - Times Online

Now...Can you show the readers if any of the loud mouthed students at UC Irvine suffered similar fates after they were ejected from the lecture hall?


Nope...Am pointing out, or rather asking you, to show the readers how the oh-so-scary CIA torture prisoners.


Says who? You? Based on what criteria can you say that US prisons are filled with political dissenters and that no one is watching over them? Yours is the appeal to ignorance argument. Look it up.

This is the typical inconsistent argument when it come to free speech in the US compared to MEastern despotic regimes. It is somewhat narcissistic as well. What you are saying is that because major newspapers like the NY Times or the LA Times or USA Today, all quite liberal and anti-Bush/conservative prints, did not report your little local news item, therefore it is 'evident' that there is media oppression or collusion among the major news prints to hide political oppression in the US. Ever consider the possibility that after they examined the details of the event, something that you obviously failed to do, they found the story to be a non-story?

The most that CAIR... CAIR > Home ... managed to milk out of that event is a bland statement...

Student protests at speech of Israeli ambassador at California campus raise free speech issues : First Amendment Coalition

Nothing about if any of the UC Irvine students suffered at the hands of the state anywhere to the level of their Iranian collegiate brothers and sisters. If anyone who should be monitoring this closely would be CAIR, Human Rights Watch or Amnessty International. But what we have is zilch. CAIR's leadership probably behind closed doors considered the event to be a waste of blood sugar to even type up that bland statement.


It is funny but in a sad way. The streets of America have been proven to be effective venues for political dissenting speech, from calling a sitting US President names such as adulterer and war criminal to pointing out America's societal ills. Whereas the streets of Iran under the mullahs today proved to be shooting ranges with live targets.


Common wisdom compels people not to seek for what is 'good' but to seek for what is 'better' than the current situation they are in at that time. That is why we see war refugees fleeing to a neighboring country even though this neighbor may not be any better of a government. Frankly, we Americans really do not care if anyone consider our country to be 'good' or not. But if the current immigration problem we have with Mexico is any indicator, it is that we are 'better' than Mexico. Same thing for between US and Iran. We do not care if you or any Iranian consider US to be 'good' or not, only that you are intellectually honest enough to examine the details, apply logical thinking, and be willing to admit that we are 'better'. By demanding that we live up to impossible standards, those impossible standards afford you the way to indirectly shill for the mullahs and give them the latitude to do what they did to your fellow Iranians as shown above.

well, from what I see you're not answering my questions. you are not here to answer the questions i asked but you want to pose your own questions.

your request that I should provide any documents of the CIA prisons is ridiculous. no one can believe that the CIA prisons are heaven. lol why should the US have political prisoners when many americans have been brainwashed by the media that the US is the most democratic country of the world? lol. how did we know about Batebi's story in the Evin prison? after he ran away. but did we know about the things he said before he ran away?

you didn't answer my question about the protestors got arrested for protesting against Israeli embassador. you didn't answer my question about Mostafa Tabatabaee nejad, the student of the UCLA who got tasered at least 5 times by the guards. when the UCLA Guards Taser someone 5 times in the public, you don't need to be a genius to guess what the US does in its hidden prisons. I've got something new for you:

In California, a Day of Protests Over Education Budget Cuts - NYTimes.com

Late Thursday afternoon, however, more than 150 people were arrested after they stopped traffic along an interstate in Oakland, according to the California Highway Patrol. There was also one injury. Protesters in Davis, outside Sacramento, also tried to block an interstate but were rebuffed by the authorities using pepper spray. One student protester was arrested.

as I said before, Iranian people are one step ahead americans because at least they've realized the system is poisoned. but many people in america are still in a trance induced by the media. theocracy is bad, but militarism is worse.
I wonder, what would happen If the US people poured into the streets of the USA and wanted to topple the whole system (like we did). all people remember what happened in the Kent State University during the Vietnam War protests.

The Kent State shootings – also known as the May 4 massacre or Kent State massacre – [2][3][4] occurred at Kent State University in the city of Kent, Ohio, and involved the shooting of unarmed college students by members of the Ohio National Guard on Monday, May 4, 1970. The guardsmen fired 67 rounds over a period of 13 seconds, killing four students and wounding nine others, one of whom suffered permanent paralysis.[5]

Some of the students who were shot had been protesting against the American invasion of Cambodia, which President Richard Nixon announced in a television address on April 30. Other students who were shot had been walking nearby or observing the protest from a distance.[6][7]

Still I should mention again because the Iranian regime is bad, It doesn't mean the US system is good. let's look at your comparison from this perspective, you're comparing "the bad" with "the worse".
meanwhile, If we want to take the things the US has done in other countries including Iraq and Afghanistan into account for the US resume of human rights, then we can see that the US is the worst.

the Indicator that shows the situation of human rights in a country isn't the number of immigrants. lol. during the Iranian diaspora after the 1979 revolution, a large number of iranians went to the USA and other english-speaking countries and the major reason was language.
Today, many american people go to mexico to have a surgery done, or they go to other latin american countries and cheap european countries due to the expensive prices for health care issues in the US. does that mean those countries are better than the US?
You're ignoring that the USA is in its worst situation from the beginning to now and then you want to cover the problems with saying others are bad too.

you're comparing irrelevant things. the title of this topic has nothing to do with the things you're discussing. if you want to discuss these things, you can create a new topic and I will be there to discuss them with you but this topic has a different subject.

 

[QWECXZ]

Israel was never a signer of the NPT and therefor not subject to it. However Personally I think Israel should open up to the IAEA. In fact I think the goal should be the elimination of all nuclear weapons. I do not believe though that is obtainable.

Iran is a signer of the NPT. And it doesn't matter if it was the Shah's regime that signed it or not. The reason Iran is viewed with such alarm when it comes to their nuke program. Is they are supporters of groups internationally recognized as terrorists. They make inflammatory statements calling into question Israels existence and chant death to America. Then expect everyone to believe them when they say their nuke program is for peaceful power generation. That doesn't garner to much goodwill or trust with the international community.

There is enough circumstantial evidence to suggest that Iran is pursuing a nuclear weapons program. And until Iran can prove otherwise it will be on a collision course with the west.

Iran May Be Working On Nuclear Weapon, UN Report Says

Iran is the signer of the NPT but It doesn't mean It is subjected to do everything they say because of that. as I said before, 'the Nuclear non-Proliferation Treaty' is a TREATY. It's not a rule. Iran can quit the NPT anytime It wants and no one can blame it. If Iran is a signer of the NPT, it's just for boosting trust. would you tell me why Iran should honor its obligations mentioned in the NPT when the other sides of the treaty are not doing so?

let's be fair. Iran hasn't started any war since the last 200 years. Iran has never attacked any country and It has one of the most damaged populations of mass destruction weapons. Israel has never ruled out a nuclear strike on Iran, recently the US has threatened Iran with a nuclear strike. Iran hasn't dropped depleted uranium bombs on civilians. Iran hasn't used white phosphorous. Iran hasn't used any type of biological or chemical weapons. Iran doesn't possess any type of dirty bombs. Iran hasn't sold its biological and chemical weapons to any other party. I think the word terrorist describes only YOU! xD

Iran doesn't have to prove anything to the west at this moment. and even If Iran had to prove something, It'd not be to the west but to the agency. the West is claiming Iran's nuclear program isn't of peaceful purposes. They are claiming, They should provide documents. If you go to a court and accuse someone of murder, It's not him who needs to prove he isn't guilty. It's you who needs to have documents for what you're claiming then after the court accepted your "DOCUMENTS" then the person can either defend himself or accept the claims.
I don't want to defend the Iranian nuclear programme and I believe the international community has the right to be concerned over Iran's nuclear programme but Iran's nuclear program shouldn't be used as a tool to cover the real threats.

 

[Old School]

There are some good words from Dr. Moshe Vered here :
Israeli raid on Iran would start years of war

 

[Thomas]

let's be fair. Iran hasn't started any war since the last 200 years. Iran has never attacked any country

No you use proxies to do it through the Revolutionary guard and Qud's force. (Hezbollah, Hamas, Shia Militia groups, and most recently the Taliban)

 

[Thomas]

There are some good words from Dr. Moshe Vered here :
Israeli raid on Iran would start years of war

He has some valid points. But I think he over estimates Iran's ability to last years of open conflict with the west. As Saddam Hussein found out. Fighting a war with the west was not the same as fighting a war with Iran. The west along with the Gulf countries could completely decimate Iran's Ports and shore batteries. As well as Air force, Navy, and Army. It's industrial and civil infrastructure would be in tatters and most likely all gasoline production cut off. In fact Gasoline production is probably the most critical area where Iran is vulnerable.

I have doubts Obama would unilaterally hit Iran. But he would have no choice but to join Israel if they attacked. Since Iran would most likely carry through with it's threat to attack Gulf countries and shipping.

 

[Old School]

He has some valid points. But I think he over estimates Iran's ability to last years of open conflict with the west. As Saddam Hussein found out. Fighting a war with the west was not the same as fighting a war with Iran. The west along with the Gulf countries could completely decimate Iran's Ports and shore batteries. As well as Air force, Navy, and Army. It's industrial and civil infrastructure would be in tatters and most likely all gasoline production cut off. In fact Gasoline production is probably the most critical area where Iran is vulnerable.

I have doubts Obama would unilaterally hit Iran. But he would have no choice but to join Israel if they attacked. Since Iran would most likely carry through with it's threat to attack Gulf countries and shipping.

I agree. These sort of military ( Iran, Syria etc) in the Middle East simply do not have the correct C2 structure to fight a NATO level professional military. They only show some HW for propaganda purpose but war is all about C2. That is the biggest weakness of these 3rd world military. Their overall implementation of MDMP is also very poor. Their C2 is merely based on vertical Detailed Command structure.

On Strategic level, there is also an over estimation of the Iranian capabilities as far as the world financial market is concerned. However, Isreal has already passed the WARNO statge long ago and OPORD has been directed. The H-Hour can take place at anytime and that can be even a minute from now to be practical.

 

[wali87]

dhdhdhdhdhdhd

 

[wali87]

I think with Iran's successful acquisition of the S-300 PMU-2, it will be successful in repelling any misadventure by the Israelis. secondly, no way in a million years will Israel or America be able to fight the Iranians with troops.

Iraq was an American reliant country battered by the US through sanctions for ten years, their army unpaid and unwilling to fight. Iran on the other hand is a country, whose evert single child will sacrifice his life to fight an invading force. History has proved it. IRAN IS THE LONGEST SURVIVING NATION ON EARTH. go search on the internet.