Is PDF helping bring people of Pakistan and India Closer

[ghilzai]

What is that supposed to mean?
Pashtun people have not suddently appeared in this world... Each tribe has an ancestor, e.g yousafzais are decendants of a person named yousaf. Marwats are decendants of marwat khan lodhi, so on. Which means they gradually multiplied and grew in number....

That is true, but pushtoon are not one race from starting point but a federation of tribes and people who had similar values and interests and they combined them as kinship.

Mr yusaf could have been an Iranian, Mr ghilzai a turk and so on, but similar views and values made them Mr pashtun.

 

[Armstrong]

lol you are stubbornly sticking to your point, why so philosphical like aristotle?
If identities are created by people, it doesnt matter at all, we all have red blood circulating in our veins and arteries, then lets erase the boundry between pakistan and india, after all we are one and same humans..

In a few hundred years this is exactly what would happen !

And Aristotle was a Buttt !

 

[ghilzai]

Afgahni Pathan tribes are confused about their identity

Some say they are Jewish who migrated, some say they are Arab, others say they are Turk

When reality is they are not even closely related to those ethnic groups

ok Mr wise guy which group are we related to? you said that with great confidence so am willing to hear it along with the proof.

We never said we are Arabs, heck even half of the Arab world ain't even Arab. A Jew and an Arab are same they semitic people, so if we ain't Arabs we definitely ain't Jews.

If afghan pushtoon are confused then why not Pakistani ones after all they are the same people, only difference is we take pride in calling ourselves Pakistani.

 

[Armstrong]

I am not Arab, I am Punjabi Syed. My family married punjabis whose children than married more punjabis and this has continued for 400+ years since we came to the subcontinent. Blood, culture, language, and location is why we are punjabis.

I don't understand ! If the first of your family that married a Punjabi was a man then the next generation would be Arab, as patriarchal lines are along which races & ethnicities are determined but if the first of your family was a woman who married a Punjabi man, then the next in line would be a Punjabi; either way one is mutually exclusive of the other !

 

[KingMamba]

In a few hundred years this is exactly what would happen !

And Aristotle was a Buttt !

Don't you think if Pakistanis want to be united it should transcend race. They should unite around Pakistan not around one specific race, that is absurd. Haviz has said many times the reason he wants to be pashtun was to reject the I am going to call it "unpleasantries" between Muhajirs/ Pashtuns. He has got it all wrong though he should try to tell both sides that they are Pakistani first instead. @haviZsultan if I am wrong about your reasoning, correct me!

 

[Armstrong]

@TheJewverine : Shabat Shalom !

Welcome to our humble abode my Jewish Brother !

 

[haviZsultan]

They really cannot I agree with you, it is impossible. One can marry into another ethnicity and then have their children continue to marry into that same ethnicity and then after 100 years they will have family who are of that ethnicity but one cannot instantly change their blood. If I learn Spanish tomorrow would not make me Spanish, being a Punjabi is about blood. Sindhi if you have Sindhi blood, and Pashtun if you have Pashtun blood. If @haviZsultan wants to unite Pakistan above race he should do it through Paskistaniyat not by acting like he is a Pashtun.

There are a variety of reasons. 1 is the breakdown of the muhajir identity. 2 is the failure of Pakistaniyat to deal with the ethnic issue. I was part of an organization where displaying any ethnic sentiment was disallowed. When people asked we were to never give our ethnic identity as it could come in the way of nationalism. But that failed to break the ethnic identity. Our approach was wrong. Pakistaniyat can never break ethnic identity. Ethnic identity can break ethnic identity. You may not understand the meaning of these words...

I have explained my point of view so many times it makes my head spin when I do it again. Maybe I am confused but it was bound to happen when your parents move and apply a false identity to themselves. I made 12 trips or more to Lucknow and for a while I felt like a refugee. lol. Other muhajirs haven't even been there so how are they being linked to a land they have never been there?

Muhajir is not an identity. We share no common culture, it is a discriminatory term meaning pilgrim and basically people want me to call myself that. It should be a good thing someone has taken an initiative in this regard.

It would be interesting to look at this post 17050:

http://www.defence.pk/forums/members-club/209904-naswar-corner-1137.html

Furthermore this thread is on my views on muhajir-I do consider myself a son of a migrant from after the partition-indeed but not a muhajir. The only real choice for muhajirs is to reinforce original identity or adopt one. Quaid e azam wanted migrants to merge. He would have been enraged if he saw how migrants made an empire for themselves and destroyed the benefit of Urdu being a neutral language-and things favor our family and other families like ours inherently. I heard only abuse for other races. Call it guilty concious or a message to my family but Za Pashtun yam aw zama watan Pakistan de.

I can give you the speeches of Quaid e Azam too. To view my views on the muhajir identity itself-check this thread:
http://www.defence.pk/forums/national-political-issues/228096-split-discussion-muhajir-identity.html

 

[Armstrong]

Don't you think if Pakistanis want to be united it should transcend race. They should unite around Pakistan not around one specific race, that is absurd. Haviz has said many times the reason he wants to be pashtun was to reject the I am going to call it "unpleasantries" between Muhajirs/ Pashtuns. He has got it all wrong though he should try to tell both sides that they are Pakistani first instead. @haviZsultan if I am wrong about your reasoning, correct me!

Of course we should & thats was the logical end of the argument I was making on this thread - If all identities are created then we could create yet another identity (we did) & exalt it above all others - Pakistaniyat !

 

[haviZsultan]

Don't you think if Pakistanis want to be united it should transcend race. They should unite around Pakistan not around one specific race, that is absurd. Haviz has said many times the reason he wants to be pashtun was to reject the I am going to call it "unpleasantries" between Muhajirs/ Pashtuns. He has got it all wrong though he should try to tell both sides that they are Pakistani first instead. @haviZsultan if I am wrong about your reasoning, correct me!

That was one of the reasons to continue doing so when Luffy's friends on the forum abused me severely. It is one of the reasons I should not give up this ideal. Plus I wrote an entire book on Pashtuns. Only a fool would not be attracted. You can read the full post in the link I gave you and a number of posts on the muhajir identity thread. Just the ones mentioned in red.

 

[KingMamba]

I don't understand ! If the first of your family that married a Punjabi was a man then the next generation would be Arab, as patriarchal lines are along which races & ethnicities are determined but if the first of your family was a woman who married a Punjabi man, then the next in line would be a Punjabi; either way one is mutually exclusive of the other !

Arab ancestor marries punjabi woman and has a half/half son who then marries another punjabi woman. The next child would be 75% punjabi blood who than marries another punjabi, the cycle continues like that for hundreds of years and eventually there is so little Arab blood left. Blood is blood it is about genetics, if I got my blood tested and compared to arab or punjabi genes I would have a more close match with punjabi blood. I mean my ancestors did try to preserve Syed blood by marrying other syeds from different lines (all Syeds are related somewhere along the line) but even they eventually married into local populace it was inevitable once our forefathers settled down.

 

[haviZsultan]

Of course we should & thats was the logical end of the argument I was making on this thread - If all identities are created then we could create yet another identity (we did) & exalt it above all others - Pakistaniyat !

Pakistani identity is the ultimate identity. Nothing comes before it or even after it for me. I am an ex-Nationalist for godsake. I can never abandon my land. The issue is that the nationalist approach simply does not work with ethnic nationalist. It is a failure on our part to understand his mindset that is the core of the issue. We can end the ethnic issue by understanding it. We have tried to raze ethnic identity to the ground and failed. We nationalists tried ourselves but these identities are in our mind-no one can think without them. Even soldiers join the MQM and ANP.

I am thankful for you and @ghilzai's defense of a person who is a wannabe Pashtun at best with weak and unproven links to Pashtuns.

 

[Icewolf]

Most Syeds are not actually Syeds. I have even seen some African & Tamil call themselves Syed. It seems everyone & their mother wants to be called Syed, as to be called "Arab".

 

[KingMamba]

There are a variety of reasons. 1 is the breakdown of the muhajir identity. 2 is the failure of Pakistaniyat to deal with the ethnic issue. I was part of an organization where displaying any ethnic sentiment was disallowed. When people asked we were to never give our ethnic identity as it could come in the way of nationalism. But that failed to break the ethnic identity. Our approach was wrong. Pakistaniyat can never break ethnic identity. Ethnic identity can break ethnic identity. You may not understand the meaning of these words...

I have explained my point of view so many times it makes my head spin when I do it again. Maybe I am confused but it was bound to happen when your parents move and apply a false identity to themselves. I made 12 trips or more to Lucknow and for a while I felt like a refugee. lol. Other muhajirs haven't even been there so how are they being linked to a land they have never been there?

Muhajir is not an identity. We share no common culture, it is a discriminatory term meaning pilgrim and basically people want me to call myself that. It should be a good thing someone has taken an initiative in this regard.

It would be interesting to look at this post 17050:

http://www.defence.pk/forums/members-club/209904-naswar-corner-1137.html

Furthermore this thread is on my views on muhajir-I do consider myself a son of a migrant from after the partition-indeed but not a muhajir. The only real choice for muhajirs is to reinforce original identity or adopt one. Quaid e azam wanted migrants to merge. He would have been enraged if he saw how migrants made an empire for themselves and destroyed the benefit of Urdu being a neutral language-and things favor our family and other families like ours inherently. I heard only abuse for other races. Call it guilty concious or a message to my family but Za Pashtun yam aw zama watan Pakistan de.

I can give you the speeches of Quaid e Azam too. To view my views on the muhajir identity itself-check this thread:
http://www.defence.pk/forums/national-political-issues/228096-split-discussion-muhajir-identity.html

The thing is when someone here asks me oh where are your parents from, I say Pakistan not Punjab. If someone asks you what you are your ancestor should just be Pakistani, the rest should be left for imagination of the person. Don't you think you are making things worse by saying you are Pashtun. I know a couple of Pashtun here they are a proud people, obviously some would take offense to such a posture adopted on your part. No?

 

[Marwat Khan Lodhi]

In a few hundred years this is exactly what would happen !

And Aristotle was a Buttt !

it burst me into laughter

 

[KingMamba]

Most Syeds are not actually Syeds. I have even seen some African & Tamil call themselves Syed. It seems everyone & their mother wants to be called Syed, as to be called "Arab".

Yeah me and Armstrong have already gone through this, go to karachi and see the number of "syeds". It is not necessarily about being arab for some people more like trying not to have ever been a hindu. In Africa there is a good chance there are Syeds, the reasons why most Syeds left middle east was too spread Islam.

Of course we should & thats was the logical end of the argument I was making on this thread - If all identities are created then we could create yet another identity (we did) & exalt it above all others - Pakistaniyat !

Within 500-600 years there will only be Pakistani ethnicity.