What's new

Is PDF helping bring people of Pakistan and India Closer

Status
Not open for further replies.
In your statement, It seems like "An expression to show Frustration". Even going to abroad didn't have any effect on you. :D

Not always... and visiting Pakistani forums have no effect on you! :help:

as usual dragging nonsense!
 
.
Durrani supporters included many small maharajas of Punjab who were muslim and joined the Pashtun armies. It is because Muslim Punjabi history is very obscure that this is not known. Also Ranjit Singh's forces destroyed mosques and a lot of other abuses which Muslims did not like. It was quite contrary to what you say.
Maharaja was not a title of muslim rulers, it seems volumes about your juvenile info on indo-pak history. Ranjeet singh was clever and able administrator, it is fact that he had muslim contingents in his army, read book " sikhs and afghans" by shamamt ali.

Also all the generals of Mughals were Pashtuns and fought Sikh Empire and Marathas.
Please dont muder history, Mughals never trusted Afghans , they were their mortal enemies. Mughals snatched india from lodhi Afghans, for which afghans always detested mughals. Even after fall of ibrahim lodhi, Babur and hamayun had to fight several wars with remaining strength of lodhis. Afghan power revived again under sher shah suri. After sher shah suri episode it became official policy of mughals to keep afghans away from Moghal nobility and army. Akbar had to fight several Afghan rebellions in Bihar, bengal, malwa and south india. In the north west Yousafzais destroyed three armies of mughals and killed famous akbar's general birbal , later afridis under darya khan anihilated mughal armies. Mughal nobility consisted of turanis, iranis and rajputs......afghans were totally excluded from nobilty because mughlas didnt trust them (read cambrdige history of India)...There was only one afghan noble in jahangir court, khan jahan lodhi, grandson of traitor daulat khan lodhi who invited babur and took his side against his king ibrahaim lodhi. This khan jahan lodhi was brutally murdered by Shah jahan along with his entire family members.....As afghans had dwindled in india, so shah jahan elevated few afghans to nobility and recruited some in army though the structure remained same, turanis, persians and rajputs were in majority....Aurnagzaib had to face a very strong rebellion in Pashtun areas....he had to come to attock by himself with forces to subdue yousafzai....From babur to aurangzaib Indian afghans were continuously trying to overthrow mughals....
In 1701 it was Wazir Khan who lead Mughal army against sikhs. Before that Bairam Khan fought against Hemu in battle of Panipat (1556). Don't murder Pashtun history because you want an alliance with India badly to break our country. Every Pashtun empire fought Indics and even Mughals whole army comprised of Pashtuns who fought Marathas and Ranjit Singh and Axom and Hemu and a lot of kings very hard.
You are a very big idiot, "khan" title is not exclusive to Pashtuns, we have borrowed it from central asian turls. Mughlas and uzbeks had title of khan, bairam khan and wazir khan were chaughtai turls aka mughals. And that hemo was hindu general of suri armies. Like akbar , sher shah suri promoted hindu-muslim relationships.

That was an insult to Pashtuns by gigawatt you took very easily but you are always complaining about fellow races in Pakistan. It shows your reality.
It has nothing to do with gigawat, i already posted this topic back in 2010.

http://www.defence.pk/forums/milita...ers-rapes-tribals-1948-war-kashmir-truth.html

See this is what I mean when you people equate Mughals to Pakistan and Pashtuns to Afghanistan
Mughals had nothing to do with modern pakistan.

[/QUOTE]What about Ghorids and Ghaznavids and what about Durranis? What about Historically Pashtuns haven't fought half as much with Mughals as they did with other people. Also Nadir Shah who is believed to be non-Pashtun raided India constantly. Ask any Indian here and they remember the raids of Pashtuns with terror and will tell you of "crimes committed" (which they also committed) like temples destroyed, looting and conversions but were common at that time. [/QUOTE]
Though ghori and ghaznavi armies were mostly Pashtuns/afghans but they themselves were Afghanized turks, though they are considered part of Pashtun history. They invaded india either to loot it or establish rule there in case of ghori.



We all have a connection and that is one of nationhood and brotherhood. It is inconsequential that my family members migrated from Lucknow in last 100 years because before that they were in (Greater) Pashtunkhwa/Pakistan (what you call Afghanistan-Abdullah Ansari) before that in Arabia. So people change locations and adopt the local races. Here in Karachi the population is 25% Pashtun and it is right for me to merge. Sindhis are at 7-8%. Don't try to teach us Luffy. I know history, demography and you have made incorrect claims in the past to be proven wrong. One is the one about Pir Roshan, another about inter-marriages between Mughal subjects and Pashtuns being uncommon.

It is non-consequential which part someone moved from. I wish to merge as a Pashtun regardless of what my family thinks of itself as-I am not an indic. All Muslims in India are Pakistanis according to this controversial address by my friend from Hyderabad Nuzair:



The Nationalist News Network-Pakistan
Ansari family which is ours has history of dissent against India. Also Pir Roshan was Bayazid Ansari who was Pashtun Pir.
We ansars were killed in Hyderabad Deccan.

The whole Burki tribe claim to be descendants of ansar of medina , but it is false claim, They are very old indo-iranian community, has nothing to do with arabs. pir roshan and all other burkis have nothing to do with cloth weaving caste, julaha of india who call themselves ansari, those are converts from hinduism.
Balchs also claim to be arabs, it is false claim, they are actually indo-iranain....pashtuns claim to be semetic, jews, but they are actually indo-iranians....
 
.
@Monkey D Luffy I was looking on google and I found a 2009 article of yours on a Pashtunsforum about 1947 lashkar invasion.

@haviZsultan I never badmouthed Pashtuns, I posted the historical events about 1947 tribal invasion
 
Last edited by a moderator:
.
If anyone thinks that people on a online forum with PDF identities represent their people............................. I PITY YOU!

mr-t-meme-generator-fool-i-pity-you-99a912.jpg
 
.
This is off-topic. My point was to prove that Indians and Pashtuns have continuously been at war. It has been proven.

Maharaja was not a title of muslim rulers, it seems volumes about your juvenile info on indo-pak history. Ranjeet singh was clever and able administrator, it is fact that he had muslim contingents in his army, read book " sikhs and afghans" by shamamt ali.

What do you think those under Maharaja were called? What were the princelets called at times. Here is a paragraph from Muslims under the Marathas:

He had Muslim contingents-obviously when 70% of the population of the region he ruled was Muslim. Mughals too had Hindus as did Suris. You can't name one top ranking general of the army. Only Lahore was ruled by Zaman Shah who was governor. There were no generals in their army who were Pashtun. Ataga Khan, Munim Khan and many others were generals in Mughal armies however. Don't murder history. Governors of Bengal were almost always Pashtuns.

Furthermore Ghaznavids and Ghorids did nothing but fight Indians. Everyone knows this to be a fact. So did Durrani, Rohillas, Barakzais

Often Muslim Princelings and vassals adopted the name Maharaja when they were under the suzerainty of Hindu or Sikh Kings. It was the same in the case of the Marathas

There are a number of cases. Governor of some cities during Marathas were called Maharajas too to please the Hindu rulers. I am pretty sure I read Maharajas. You are lucky half my history books are not in Karachi right now. Either case... proven wrong yet again. Luffy this is like bashing your skull across a wall. I will not let you get away with this Afghanistan support and linking of Pakistani Pashtuns with them.

Please dont muder history, Mughals never trusted Afghans , they were their mortal enemies. Mughals snatched india from lodhi Afghans, for which afghans always detested mughals. Even after fall of ibrahim lodhi, Babur and hamayun had to fight several wars with remaining strength of lodhis. Afghan power revived again under sher shah suri. After sher shah suri episode it became official policy of mughals to keep afghans away from Moghal nobility and army. Akbar had to fight several Afghan rebellions in Bihar, bengal, malwa and south india. In the north west Yousafzais destroyed three armies of mughals and killed famous akbar's general birbal , later afridis under darya khan anihilated mughal armies. Mughal nobility consisted of turanis, iranis and rajputs......afghans were totally excluded from nobilty because mughlas didnt trust them (read cambrdige history of India)...There was only one afghan noble in jahangir court, khan jahan lodhi, grandson of traitor daulat khan lodhi who invited babur and took his side against his king ibrahaim lodhi. This khan jahan lodhi was brutally murdered by Shah jahan along with his entire family members.....As afghans had dwindled in india, so shah jahan elevated few afghans to nobility and recruited some in army though the structure remained same, turanis, persians and rajputs were in majority....Aurnagzaib had to face a very strong rebellion in Pashtun areas....he had to come to attock by himself with forces to subdue yousafzai....From babur to aurangzaib Indian afghans were continuously trying to overthrow mughals....

Stop copying me for godsake. I have been telling you not to murder history. You are not a parrot. Develop some ingenuity.
Don't teach someone who knows history about his own adopted races history. You can fool any other Pashtun on this site but not me. This is about Pashtun-Mughal marriages I posted before:

1) Akbar: Salima Sultan was Pashtun and the widow of Bairam Khan who was one of Akbar's main generals. Akbar married her upon the death of Bairam. There are a number of sources but historian Feroz saab confirms Salima was indeed Pashtun.

2) Babur: Bibi Mubarika was a yousufzai Pashtun who was one of Babur's many wives.

3) Nur Jahan was born in Kandahar too... but it is unclear if she was Pashtun or Persian. It is often speculated that she is.

4) Jehangir: Qasim Khan's daughter was married to Jehangir. Qasim Khan was from Sabzwar in what is now Afghanistan.

Source: http://www.defence.pk/forums/members-club/209904-naswar-corner-1157.html#ixzz2JNwjMHwd

Almost every soldier in the Mughal army was Pashtun. I already mentioned the generals.

You are a very big idiot, "khan" title is not exclusive to Pashtuns, we have borrowed it from central asian turls. Mughlas and uzbeks had title of khan, bairam khan and wazir khan were chaughtai turls aka mughals. And that hemo was hindu general of suri armies. Like akbar , sher shah suri promoted hindu-muslim relationships.

Bairam was born in Badakhshan, I know that. I will research further on this point. He was listed among Pashtun generals of Mughal army I researched. Also Pashtuns spread everywhere, what proof do you have that a person living in Chiniot cannot be a Pashtun? Wazir Khan I am sure is a Pashtun. Furthermore Pashtuns at that time were deeply Persianized due to rulership of Safavids and Ashrafids. Afghanistan as it is now was constantly fought over by Persians and Afghans with many times when Persians ruled Afghanistan for periods. This shows in the language being Farsi historically than Pashto. That doesn't mean these guys were Persians. 95% of all Khans are Pashtuns, we all know this.

You said the same thing about Imran Khan and every other Pashtun personality. Stop it. Who captured Hemu? Also another thing. Even today in Afghanistan where they speak dari and many farsi not even knowing a word of Pashto. If you discount even Persianized Pashtun for self-satisfaction you kill our history.

Do note Nadir Shah is often counted as a Pashtun despite being named a Persian. This is no easy escape by claiming so and so is non-Pashtun so Pashtuns never fought Indians. This is our history-be proud that Pashtuns ruled India for so long. Otherwise you are a Tajik? Are you Tajik? Is that why you are killing our history?

It has nothing to do with gigawat, i already posted this topic back in 2010.

http://www.defence.pk/forums/milita...ers-rapes-tribals-1948-war-kashmir-truth.html

Exactly. Now it does seem to me you are indeed yourself trying to defame Pashtuns but when someone else says something about Pashtuns you take offense to start ethnic war. I am understanding your horrid personality.

Mughals had nothing to do with modern pakistan.

Then what is the problem? Pashtuns made the armies of the Mughals so Mughals empire was made by the fighting spirit of Pashtuns and so were the empires ruled by ethnic Pashtuns. There is no difference and I see them as equal history-both are my history.

Your attitude towards them shows your attitude towards Pakistan. You think highly of Afghanistan just because it has a few Pashtuns who ruled it. Pakistan will soon be ruled by Pashtun too then your partogha will disappear and your claims will be proven hollow.

Though ghori and ghaznavi armies were mostly Pashtuns/afghans but they themselves were Afghanized turks, though they are considered part of Pashtun history. They invaded india either to loot it or establish rule there in case of ghori.

So, proves the point. They aren't turks. Don't lie. They are turkized but not turks. You can't do this to every one of our Pashtun empires.

This is no escape. You are murdering Pashtun history by saying so and so is non-Pashtun. This is your mentality. All you want to do is prove you are right at any cost no matter what stupidity your promote. Even today how many nawabs are Pashtuns in India. Bahadur Yar Jung, Pataudis, Mohammed Khan Zaman Khan. These look like Tajiks or Punjabis to you obviously?

The whole Burki tribe claim to be descendants of ansar of medina , but it is false claim, They are very old indo-iranian community, has nothing to do with arabs. pir roshan and all other burkis have nothing to do with cloth weaving caste, julaha of india who call themselves ansari, those are converts from hinduism.

The only one making false claims are you. I could call you a trash picking Afghan but I will desist since you called my family an insulting name. I could also say that you may not be your fathers son and may be a born Tajik or Hazara adopted by him but I will desist since you took offense last time.

Balchs also claim to be arabs, it is false claim, they are actually indo-iranain....pashtuns claim to be semetic, jews, but they are actually indo-iranians....

Okay bhai, Balochs, burkis, pir roshan, ansaris came from your womb so you know their history. I mean this is hilarious. you are promoting one sided history and anyone who does not agree or does not fit your narrative is labelled non-pashtun. This is amazing.

Understand this simple concept first that ethnicity is fluid. It does not matter. The person's birthplace does and his wish to adopt a culture does. It doesn't even matter if I want to maintain links with Ansars despite adopting Pashtun culture. My future generations will be Pashtuns. Stop this childishness.

Also by the logic you made Ghaznavid and Ghorid's turks by the same logic you declare @ghilzai turk... amazing. Anyone who goes against your theories or disagrees is a non Pashtun.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
.
Stop talking on behalf of pashtuns. Afghan-sikh wars have nothing to do with the hate for indics that you are claiming, it was struggle for rule and power, afghans were rulers of punjab and indigenous sikhs challenged their power and rule. In this sikh-afghan battles, many local punjabi musalmans cooperated with ranjeet singh against their foriegn rulers afghans.

Marathas forces reached upto attock, it was necessary for durranis to eliminate any threat to their punjab. Lodhis and suris have fought more wars with mughals than with indics? How you explain that?...there was always power struggle betweens turks , afghans and local rajputs, i dont think it was about indic vs non-indic. Afghans of east (bihar, bengal etc) and afghans of west(north west frontier) fought contineously with non-indic mughals. How do you explain that?


You yourself are an indic muslim, punjabis, sindhis, kashmiris and mohajirs are all indic/hindi muslims. Read about pakistan movement, it was for hindi muslims. Pakistan was a country created for all hindi muslims , any hindi muslim from U.P , bihar, delhi could migrate to Pakistan.....if ghilzai is saying that he is turk and so has no connection with indic people, then he is also denying any links with indic/desi muslims like punjabis, sindhis and mohajirs. I am sure punjabis and others wont be comfortable with ghilzai comment.

Why wouldn't Punjabis and others be comfortable with my comments?.

I accept all pakistanis as my brothers and even those who have migrated to Pakistan as equal to me in every way.

I don't consider Indians of modern day India including the Muslims as equal to me.

My history is not only pushtoon history but central asian history and glorious one too.

We have always had a connection to land that makes Pakistan from thousand of years and not just from the Islamic period.

Havi in my opinion is a pushtoon and i welcome his comments, unfortunately you on the other hand have hardly any ethics by attacking someone because he shows you up as in a debate and thus you resorting to name calling.

Good luck wroora like your hero the reject ghaffar khan can only find comfort in the arms of Indians as your people don't accept as you as their own.
 
.
@Monkey D Luffy I was looking on google and I found a 2009 article of yours on a Pashtunsforum about 1947 lashkar invasion.

@haviZsultan I never badmouthed Pashtuns, I posted the historical events about 1947 tribal invasion

I understand. But it was responsibility of any noble-blooded Pashtun to counter something we see as untrue. Luffy shouts down someone who says bomb Afghanistan because there are some Dari speaking fools there but why he didn't get angry at you when you called them looters? He is just a foreigner. There is no logic to his posts.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
.
Furthermore the battle of Panipat was fought between us Pashtuns and Maratha empire. So what we see is a historical struggle between Pashtuns and Indic nations.

That is why its very weird when people try to link Pashtuns to Indic people or draw an alliance.

:lol: So says the Indic Muslim.

If someone does not believe it he can notice how Pashtuns make up 30% of the Pakistan army while making up 16% of the population.


Pathans are not 30%. They are less than 15% of the Army. The 2011 target according to the ISPR is to make them comprise 14.5% of the Army.

Punjab’s dominance in army being reduced: ISPR -DAWN - Top Stories; September 14, 2007

Within a decade (2001-2011), the composition of Pakhtuns in the army would increase by one per cent to 14.5 per cent.
 
.
@luffy d monkey pushtoon are neither Jews nor indo aryans, they are Turkic people, read about the hephtalites etc.

Just read past the qais baba and bibi motto theory, which is alt of bull anyway.

You say to havi not to speak for pushtoons but who has nominated you as their representative, how many pushtoon here have even shown you support?.

:lol: So says the Indic Muslim.




Pathans are not 30%. They are less than 15% of the Army. The 2011 target according to the ISPR is to make them comprise 14.5% of the Army.

Punjab’s dominance in army being reduced: ISPR -DAWN - Top Stories; September 14, 2007

Yep its official now that an Indian has said it, for the population the number of pushtoon in the army is very high.

Best not to get involved in others business, your country has hardly any Muslims in the army.

Your digg at havi, he rejected your indic nation and considers himself a pushtoon he has joined the band of brothers.

Every indic has a bit of central Asian in them we made sure of that when we won.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
.
@Monkey D Luffy

The Pathans and Mughals were enemies as you rightly say..Infact the Mughals under Aurangzed massacred pathans when they revolted. Babur in his Babur nama used to gloat how he made a mountain of Pathan skulls on his way to India. This is not to discredit Pathans but just history.

Also Pathans were never a significant part of Mughal Army. It was mainly Turk and Persian mercenaries and Hindustani Muslims along with Rajput nobility.

Pathans were constantly revolting against the Mughals and pledged their alliance to Afghan amirs rather than Mughals.

The invasion of Assam was not under Pathans but by Rajput generals.

Bairam Khan was a chagatai Turk

Maharaja Ranjit Singh's entire artillery division was manned by Punjabi Mussalmans.

The Bengal pathan nobility was always at logger heads wit the Mughals.

Most of the Pathans/Afghans in India supported Hemu against Mughals because of the enmity with the Mughals for defeating Ibrahim Lodhi in first battle of Panipat


===

ha ha ha..so many historical fallacies and I listed just a few.

Yep its official now that an Indian has said it, for the population the number of pushtoon in the army is very high.

Best not to get involved in others business, your country has hardly any Muslims in the army.

Read the link..it was stated by ISPR..meaning Inter Services Public Relations. That is not an Indian agency..:lol:
 
Last edited by a moderator:
.
this should b the last sentence where India and pakistan are mentioned together. ignore maaro insignificant o ko!
 
.
@Monkey D Luffy

The Pathans and Mughals were enemies as you rightly say..Infact the Mughals under Aurangzed massacred pathans when they revolted. Babur in his Babur nama used to gloat how he made a mountain of Pathan skulls on his way to India. This is not to discredit Pathans but just history.

Also Pathans were never a significant part of Mughal Army. It was mainly Turk and Persian mercenaries and Hindustani Muslims along with Rajput nobility.

The invasion of Assam was not under Pathans but by Rajput generals.

Maharaja Ranjit Singh's entire artillery division was manned by Punjabi Mussalmans.

The Bengal pathan nobility was always at logger heads wit the Mughals.

===

ha ha ha..so many historical fallacies.



Read the link..it was stated by ISPR..meaning Inter Services Public Relations. That is not an Indian agency..:lol:

Are these the same rajputs whose great prithvi rajs bones still rot in kabul?.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
.
Are these the same rajputs whose great prithvi rajs bones still rot in kabul?.

ISPR stated that pathans comprise only 13.5% of the Pak army and the 2011 target is to increase that by 1% to 14.5%.

You should check facts before giving big numbers like 30%
 
.
:lol: So says the Indic Muslim.

Pathans are not 30%. They are less than 15% of the Army. The 2011 target according to the ISPR is to make them comprise 14.5% of the Army.

Punjab’s dominance in army being reduced: ISPR -DAWN - Top Stories; September 14, 2007

This is an incorrect article. The Pakistan army has predominantly contained Pashtuns and Punjabis. Stephen P Cohen has stated the 30% figure earlier and said as efforts are being made to include other ethnic groups including Sindhis the population of both have fallen. My personal contact claims the fall is higher for Pashtuns than of Punjabis.

This article from 2006 indicates:

There are approximately 520,000 personnel on active duty in the army, which makes it one of the world's largest, according to GlobalSecurity.org. There are no official figures disseminated about the ethnic background of the officers as well as the ranks. Yet the estimation of two leading experts on the Pakistani army, namely Stephen P. Cohen of the Brookings Institution and Professor Hasan Askari Rizvi of Pakistan, indicates roughly that the Pashtun representation in the army is between 15-22% among officers and between 20-25% among the regular rank-and-file.

Then this article:

Significantly, Pashtuns make up 25% of the armed forces.

http://www.unhcr.org/refworld/pdfid/4b6fe2d94.pdf Page 12

Then in Steven P Cohens book on Pakistan the same thing is repeated.

Furthermore in Times article... "their concern":

One concern might be Pakistan's ethnic Pashtuns. They make up roughly 20% of Pakistan's officer corps and 25% of enlisted.

That article was a major blunder on account of dawn. My stats are for early 2000's. The population of Pashtuns in the army may have peaked then.

@Monkey D Luffy

The Pathans and Mughals were enemies as you rightly say..Infact the Mughals under Aurangzed massacred pathans when they revolted. Babur in his Babur nama used to gloat how he made a mountain of Pathan skulls on his way to India. This is not to discredit Pathans but just history.

Also Pathans were never a significant part of Mughal Army. It was mainly Turk and Persian mercenaries and Hindustani Muslims along with Rajput nobility.

Pathans were constantly revolting against the Mughals and pledged their alliance to Afghan amirs rather than Mughals.

The invasion of Assam was not under Pathans but by Rajput generals.

Bairam Khan was a chagatai Turk

Maharaja Ranjit Singh's entire artillery division was manned by Punjabi Mussalmans.

The Bengal pathan nobility was always at logger heads wit the Mughals.

Most of the Pathans/Afghans in India supported Hemu against Mughals because of the enmity with the Mughals for defeating Ibrahim Lodhi in first battle of Panipat


===

ha ha ha..so many historical fallacies and I listed just a few.



Read the link..it was stated by ISPR..meaning Inter Services Public Relations. That is not an Indian agency..:lol:

Luffies backup is here. An Indian troll.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
.
This is an incorrect article. The Pakistan army has predominantly contained Pashtuns and Punjabis. Stephen P Cohen has stated the 30% figure earlier and said as efforts are being made to include other ethnic groups including Sindhis the population of both have fallen. My personal contact claims the fall is higher for Pashtuns than of Punjabis.

This article from 2006 indicates:



Then this article:



http://www.unhcr.org/refworld/pdfid/4b6fe2d94.pdf Page 12

Then in Steven P Cohens book on Pakistan the same thing is repeated.

Furthermore in Times article... "their concern":



That article was a major blunder on account of dawn. My stats are for early 2000's. The population of Pashtuns in the army may have peaked then.

Everything falls apart when ISPR itself confirms that Pathans make only 13.5% of the Army.

Who would I believe about something about Pak Army especially the composition - ISPR or Stephen P Cohen/Jamestown. Ofcourse ISPR.

Dont cook up facts to prove a point. In this age of internet any body can easily cross verify.
 
.
Status
Not open for further replies.

Country Latest Posts

Back
Top Bottom