Is Pak the national self-expression of the Indus Valley or is it remnant of N.Indian Islamic empires

[SIPRA]

According to my understanding atheists are of two types
1) One who is has a pretty nasty experience with religion or some religious people
2) One who is too embarrassed to defend the practices of his religion and or deities and only culturally wants to identify with his people

Disagree. He was never exclusively "Israeli" to begin with. He was the Lord Heavens. the Lord of Adam(AS), the Lord of Noah(AS) and Lord of Abraham(AS). It's mostly Jewish propaganda that says the Jews people were the first people to receive the message the word of God while they conveniently ignore the descendants of Ismail (AS) (Arabs) who were given the same message as they were. It was not until Moses was given the Torah that they started using the words God of Israel rather than God of Abraham. Monotheistic Arabs on the other kept praying to the God of Abraham(AS) until the Quran was revealed.

Also the Jews made a covenant with God not with the land of Israel. The covenant itself took place outside the land of Israel


Of course all religions make sacred certain parts of geography. My point was addressing your insistence on your version Hinduism which says the religious truth can only originate from India. This line of thinking I believe in a modern world is outdated and rightly reduces Hinduism to a India-centric supremacist philosophy akin to Nazism. On the other Islam which embraces all mankind under one God has produced saints and religious scholars from native populations from around the world including India and most of them were not even Arab



I can assure through Islam we will carry on the legacy of civilising the rest of the whole world, not just India or Far East (Inshallah). Why should we cling to a philosophy (Buddhism) which does not honour a god, has aspects of idol worship ingrained and can't even stand up to Hinduism in its home turf. We will stick with Islam which has a proven history since the beginning, of liberating mankind from it's self made tyrannical gods and ideas. Followers of the Islamic God (Jews, Christians and Muslims) have all been the movers and shakers of the world. I personally all believe all great civilizations of past that have made a lasting impact on history were monotheistic in origin. You can even find traces strict of monotheism in India through Arya Samaj in Hinduism. If I remember correctly Sigmund Freud himself accuses his fellow Jews of "borrowing" monotheism from the Ancient Egyptians. The very Egyptians that had many pagan gods and the Pharoah himself called himself a god. As I have stated earlier in this post the Israelites hardly needed an Introduction to monotheism so Frued's statement maybe partially correct (the Egyptian part). Hence I believe India (and China) will never achieve their true potential until they start until they start following the Abrahmic/Islamic teachings. Any progress these two country's make for now will be temporary and will be a minor blip in the grand scheme of things. Don't you already consider Islam a threat to your home made deities which of course you yourself refuse to believe in. Ever pondered the most of the accepted history of mankind has been written through a monotheistic lens and only recently pagan philosophies are once again rising are challenging this view of history.

I can assure you India will have a bright future ahead of herself but definitely not under Brahmin/Hindu rule


I can assure there are plenty of Muslims Pakistani and otherwise doing Dawa around the world. You need to go out more. There are plenty of Mosques in Polynesia and Latin America too. Our job is to merely invite people to Islam not force with to convert with draconian hindutva laws like CAA. When the world is ready it will convert out of it's free will. Such an event would completely eclipse the Roman Empire's conversion to Christianity

The recent media attention the people of Sentinel Island did arouse my curiosity. In the 70s when Indian government tried to establish contact with them, they offered them gifts. One of the gifts was a pig. They immediately killed it and buried it. Made me wonder why they would do that? But then I admit unlike the Christian priest I am not brave enough to find out


Will the high caste Brahmins allow that? They already dream of an India without Islam, Christianity where they can rule with peace without the foreign Islamic ideas of "All men are equal". Nothing short of an India ruled by High Caste Brahmins is acceptable to the RSS. Maybe they will tolerate Buddhism to show their "tolerance" of other Ideas


He will be even more dismayed to see what present day Mongolia has now become. A total backwater portion of the world


Speaking of Computer metaphors, Islam is to all monotheistic philosophies what Unicode is to ASCII. You can do great things while sticking to ASCII but in this day and age should you?



Here are some of the gods created by some of the races of the past

Babylonian:

Aztec:

Egyptian:

Egyptian Pharoah

I will also add the Golden calf that the Israelites created right when Moses(AS) was among them to the list (they probably listened to you)

Now what is common in all the of the above pictures? They were dieties created by people whom you may proudly call your ancestors. These dieties were probably manifestations of the desires of the ruling elite of the time.

What is other thing common in those deities? They were challenged by the followers of Abraham, Moses, Jesus and Muslims. You can hardly call all these people one "race". So what is common in all the aforementioned people. They all worship the same God. They were almost challenged by creators of these deities from a position of strength. The end result was always the same. The people were either destroyed/converted and their deities became museum curiosities and their very history was written by the Abrahmics. Give me one reason why any self made Indian deities if forced on mankind won't meet the same fate?

In a way want the Ram Mandir to be recreated to it's full glory. In a future Muslim India, I want it's abandoned ruins to serve as fresh reminder to the rest of mankind of the result of wrongly imposing self made philosophies/gods on man like all the pagan ruins all over the world

Very elaborate answer. Now, @Juggernaut_the_Gangu would be coming back to you.

 

[Juggernaut_Flat_Plane_V8]

According to my understanding atheists are of two types
1) One who is has a pretty nasty experience with religion or some religious people
2) One who is too embarrassed to defend the practices of his religion and or deities and only culturally wants to identify with his people

Disagree. He was never exclusively "Israeli" to begin with. He was the Lord Heavens. the Lord of Adam(AS), the Lord of Noah(AS) and Lord of Abraham(AS). It's mostly Jewish propaganda that says the Jews people were the first people to receive the message the word of God while they conveniently ignore the descendants of Ismail (AS) (Arabs) who were given the same message as they were. It was not until Moses was given the Torah that they started using the words God of Israel rather than God of Abraham. Monotheistic Arabs on the other kept praying to the God of Abraham(AS) until the Quran was revealed.

Also the Jews made a covenant with God not with the land of Israel. The covenant itself took place outside the land of Israel


Of course all religions make sacred certain parts of geography. My point was addressing your insistence on your version Hinduism which says the religious truth can only originate from India. This line of thinking I believe in a modern world is outdated and rightly reduces Hinduism to a India-centric supremacist philosophy akin to Nazism. On the other Islam which embraces all mankind under one God has produced saints and religious scholars from native populations from around the world including India and most of them were not even Arab



I can assure through Islam we will carry on the legacy of civilising the rest of the whole world, not just India or Far East (Inshallah). Why should we cling to a philosophy (Buddhism) which does not honour a god, has aspects of idol worship ingrained and can't even stand up to Hinduism in its home turf. We will stick with Islam which has a proven history since the beginning, of liberating mankind from it's self made tyrannical gods and ideas. Followers of the Islamic God (Jews, Christians and Muslims) have all been the movers and shakers of the world. I personally all believe all great civilizations of past that have made a lasting impact on history were monotheistic in origin. You can even find traces strict of monotheism in India through Arya Samaj in Hinduism. If I remember correctly Sigmund Freud himself accuses his fellow Jews of "borrowing" monotheism from the Ancient Egyptians. The very Egyptians that had many pagan gods and the Pharoah himself called himself a god. As I have stated earlier in this post the Israelites hardly needed an Introduction to monotheism so Frued's statement maybe partially correct (the Egyptian part). Hence I believe India (and China) will never achieve their true potential until they start until they start following the Abrahmic/Islamic teachings. Any progress these two country's make for now will be temporary and will be a minor blip in the grand scheme of things. Don't you already consider Islam a threat to your home made deities which of course you yourself refuse to believe in. Ever pondered the most of the accepted history of mankind has been written through a monotheistic lens and only recently pagan philosophies are once again rising are challenging this view of history.

I can assure you India will have a bright future ahead of herself but definitely not under Brahmin/Hindu rule


I can assure there are plenty of Muslims Pakistani and otherwise doing Dawa around the world. You need to go out more. There are plenty of Mosques in Polynesia and Latin America too. Our job is to merely invite people to Islam not force with to convert with draconian hindutva laws like CAA. When the world is ready it will convert out of it's free will. Such an event would completely eclipse the Roman Empire's conversion to Christianity

The recent media attention the people of Sentinel Island did arouse my curiosity. In the 70s when Indian government tried to establish contact with them, they offered them gifts. One of the gifts was a pig. They immediately killed it and buried it. Made me wonder why they would do that? But then I admit unlike the Christian priest I am not brave enough to find out


Will the high caste Brahmins allow that? They already dream of an India without Islam, Christianity where they can rule with peace without the foreign Islamic ideas of "All men are equal". Nothing short of an India ruled by High Caste Brahmins is acceptable to the RSS. Maybe they will tolerate Buddhism to show their "tolerance" of other Ideas


He will be even more dismayed to see what present day Mongolia has now become. A total backwater portion of the world


Speaking of Computer metaphors, Islam is to all monotheistic philosophies what Unicode is to ASCII. You can do great things while sticking to ASCII but in this day and age should you?



Here are some of the gods created by some of the races of the past

Babylonian:

Aztec:

Egyptian:

Egyptian Pharoah

I will also add the Golden calf that the Israelites created right when Moses(AS) was among them to the list (they probably listened to you)

Now what is common in all the of the above pictures? They were dieties created by people whom you may proudly call your ancestors. These dieties were probably manifestations of the desires of the ruling elite of the time.

What is other thing common in those deities? They were challenged by the followers of Abraham, Moses, Jesus and Muslims. You can hardly call all these people one "race". So what is common in all the aforementioned people. They all worship the same God. They were almost challenged by creators of these deities from a position of strength. The end result was always the same. The people were either destroyed/converted and their deities became museum curiosities and their very history was written by the Abrahmics. Give me one reason why any self made Indian deities if forced on mankind won't meet the same fate?

In a way want the Ram Mandir to be recreated to it's full glory. In a future Muslim India, I want it's abandoned ruins to serve as fresh reminder to the rest of mankind of the result of wrongly imposing self made philosophies/gods on man like all the pagan ruins all over the world

According to my understanding atheists are of two types
1) One who is has a pretty nasty experience with religion or some religious people
2) One who is too embarrassed to defend the practices of his religion and or deities and only culturally wants to identify with his people

Disagree. He was never exclusively "Israeli" to begin with. He was the Lord Heavens. the Lord of Adam(AS), the Lord of Noah(AS) and Lord of Abraham(AS). It's mostly Jewish propaganda that says the Jews people were the first people to receive the message the word of God while they conveniently ignore the descendants of Ismail (AS) (Arabs) who were given the same message as they were. It was not until Moses was given the Torah that they started using the words God of Israel rather than God of Abraham. Monotheistic Arabs on the other kept praying to the God of Abraham(AS) until the Quran was revealed.

Also the Jews made a covenant with God not with the land of Israel. The covenant itself took place outside the land of Israel


Of course all religions make sacred certain parts of geography. My point was addressing your insistence on your version Hinduism which says the religious truth can only originate from India. This line of thinking I believe in a modern world is outdated and rightly reduces Hinduism to a India-centric supremacist philosophy akin to Nazism. On the other Islam which embraces all mankind under one God has produced saints and religious scholars from native populations from around the world including India and most of them were not even Arab



I can assure through Islam we will carry on the legacy of civilising the rest of the whole world, not just India or Far East (Inshallah). Why should we cling to a philosophy (Buddhism) which does not honour a god, has aspects of idol worship ingrained and can't even stand up to Hinduism in its home turf. We will stick with Islam which has a proven history since the beginning, of liberating mankind from it's self made tyrannical gods and ideas. Followers of the Islamic God (Jews, Christians and Muslims) have all been the movers and shakers of the world. I personally all believe all great civilizations of past that have made a lasting impact on history were monotheistic in origin. You can even find traces strict of monotheism in India through Arya Samaj in Hinduism. If I remember correctly Sigmund Freud himself accuses his fellow Jews of "borrowing" monotheism from the Ancient Egyptians. The very Egyptians that had many pagan gods and the Pharoah himself called himself a god. As I have stated earlier in this post the Israelites hardly needed an Introduction to monotheism so Frued's statement maybe partially correct (the Egyptian part). Hence I believe India (and China) will never achieve their true potential until they start until they start following the Abrahmic/Islamic teachings. Any progress these two country's make for now will be temporary and will be a minor blip in the grand scheme of things. Don't you already consider Islam a threat to your home made deities which of course you yourself refuse to believe in. Ever pondered the most of the accepted history of mankind has been written through a monotheistic lens and only recently pagan philosophies are once again rising are challenging this view of history.

I can assure you India will have a bright future ahead of herself but definitely not under Brahmin/Hindu rule


I can assure there are plenty of Muslims Pakistani and otherwise doing Dawa around the world. You need to go out more. There are plenty of Mosques in Polynesia and Latin America too. Our job is to merely invite people to Islam not force with to convert with draconian hindutva laws like CAA. When the world is ready it will convert out of it's free will. Such an event would completely eclipse the Roman Empire's conversion to Christianity

The recent media attention the people of Sentinel Island did arouse my curiosity. In the 70s when Indian government tried to establish contact with them, they offered them gifts. One of the gifts was a pig. They immediately killed it and buried it. Made me wonder why they would do that? But then I admit unlike the Christian priest I am not brave enough to find out


Will the high caste Brahmins allow that? They already dream of an India without Islam, Christianity where they can rule with peace without the foreign Islamic ideas of "All men are equal". Nothing short of an India ruled by High Caste Brahmins is acceptable to the RSS. Maybe they will tolerate Buddhism to show their "tolerance" of other Ideas


He will be even more dismayed to see what present day Mongolia has now become. A total backwater portion of the world


Speaking of Computer metaphors, Islam is to all monotheistic philosophies what Unicode is to ASCII. You can do great things while sticking to ASCII but in this day and age should you?



Here are some of the gods created by some of the races of the past

Babylonian:

Aztec:

Egyptian:

Egyptian Pharoah

I will also add the Golden calf that the Israelites created right when Moses(AS) was among them to the list (they probably listened to you)

Now what is common in all the of the above pictures? They were dieties created by people whom you may proudly call your ancestors. These dieties were probably manifestations of the desires of the ruling elite of the time.

What is other thing common in those deities? They were challenged by the followers of Abraham, Moses, Jesus and Muslims. You can hardly call all these people one "race". So what is common in all the aforementioned people. They all worship the same God. They were almost challenged by creators of these deities from a position of strength. The end result was always the same. The people were either destroyed/converted and their deities became museum curiosities and their very history was written by the Abrahmics. Give me one reason why any self made Indian deities if forced on mankind won't meet the same fate?

In a way want the Ram Mandir to be recreated to it's full glory. In a future Muslim India, I want it's abandoned ruins to serve as fresh reminder to the rest of mankind of the result of wrongly imposing self made philosophies/gods on man like all the pagan ruins all over the world

I won't respond to you and will let you have the last word, since overt religious discussions are not allowed in this forum and we are inching dangerously close to that territory..But my first point to which you responded to still stands....Do look out for my answer to @OldenWisdom...قول بزرگ since that would be a touch more metaphysical, philosophical

I am not a hard case atheist....The possibility of a Creator or an impersonal non-physical Creative Force is still possible in my conviction ...There are only two things I am certain about

1) Supernatural miracles that break the laws of physics never happened in history and will also never hapen as long as humanity lives

2) I didnot exist before birth and won't after death

That doesnot mean there can't be a Creator...but there certainly isn't any indivdual soul in the body that survives death and also no ghosts or any thing of that sort

 

[SIPRA]

I won't respond to you and will let you have the last word, since overt religious discussions are not allowed in this forum and we are inching dangerously close to that territory..But my first point to which you responded to still stands....Do look out for my answer to @OldenWisdom...قول بزرگ since that would be a touch more metaphysical, philosophical

I am not a hard case atheist....The possibility of a Creator or an impersonal non-physical Creative Force is still possible in my conviction ...There are only two things I am certain about

1) Supernatural miracles that break the laws of physics never happened in history and will also never hapen as long as humanity lives

2) I didnot exist before birth and won't after death

That doesnot mean there can't be a Creator...but there certainly isn't any indivdual soul in the body that survives death and also no ghosts or any thing of that sort

Bhateejay Gangu: You are an utterly confused man.

 

[Imad.Khan]

Yeah dumb *** I am not a muslim but that doesn't change to fact that Islam is an arab nationalistic religion and do you think the arabs will follow it if it was a pakistani religion of course not lol.


And does that change the fact that Islam is the national religion of arabs?!


Yeah the arabs are converted to an arab religion and not a foreign religion like you retards do.

So you are not a Muslim and you are preaching Muslims about their own religion. Anyway at least we know that you are a Assyrian which also means you are not an Arab either.

 

[dani92]

So you are not a Muslim and you are preaching Muslims about their own religion. Anyway at least we know that you are a Assyrian which also means you are not an Arab either.

I am not Assyrian you retard and even if Islam is an Arab religion it’s still a Semitic religion.

 

[Indos]

I won't respond to you and will let you have the last word, since overt religious discussions are not allowed in this forum and we are inching dangerously close to that territory..But my first point to which you responded to still stands....Do look out for my answer to @OldenWisdom...قول بزرگ since that would be a touch more metaphysical, philosophical

I am not a hard case atheist....The possibility of a Creator or an impersonal non-physical Creative Force is still possible in my conviction ...There are only two things I am certain about

1) Supernatural miracles that break the laws of physics never happened in history and will also never hapen as long as humanity lives

2) I didnot exist before birth and won't after death

That doesnot mean there can't be a Creator...but there certainly isn't any indivdual soul in the body that survives death and also no ghosts or any thing of that sort

You are a kind person, so I would ask you where that kindness is originated from ? Can universe and physics create kindness or morality ? For Muslim we believe that we have soul that comes directly from God. It is stated clearly in Quran. Soul is not physic and it has immortal trait from God, that is why despite our body cannot function anymore after we die, our soul is still alive.

This is the time where God created Adam.

So when I have proportioned him and breathed into him of My soul, then fall down to him in prostration."

QS 38: Verse 72

 

[Imad.Khan]

I am not Assyrian you retard and even if Islam is an Arab religion it’s still a Semitic religion.

Is retard the only insult you know? Its ok you don't need to accept your background, but we know. Anyway we don't need your approval to follow what ever faith we choose, nor do we need an outsider to tell us about our faith.

 

[dani92]

Is retard the only insult you know? Its ok you don't need to accept your background, but we know. Anyway we don't need your approval to follow what ever faith we choose, nor do we need an outsider to tell us about our faith.

The irony and stupidity that you are following an outsider faith

 

[Indos]

The irony and stupidity that you are following an outsider faith

Islam is not an Arab faith dude. The one who should be called stupid is the one who deny truth when it comes from outside of their tribe/nation. Any way, since Adam and Hawa, human have been taught by their God to only worship One and the only God, Allah. Allah Himself means God. In any language, you will find the words that means God. It show that there are always messengers that God sent to any nation that make them have that concept on their language.

Tauhid belief itself is not exclusively adopted by Arab/Semit. It has been adopted even by oldest religion like Hindu, some Hindu is Monotheistic, just like what is believed by Balinese Hindu who worship supreme God called Sang Hyang Widi.

 

[dani92]

Islam is not an Arab faith dude. The one who should be called stupid is the one who deny truth when it comes from outside of their tribe/nation. Any way, since Adam and Hawa, human have been taught by their God to only worship One and the only God, Allah. Allah Himself means God. In any language, you will find the words that means God. It show that there are always messengers that God sent to any nation that make them have that concept on their language.

Tauhid belief itself is not exclusively adopted by Arab/Semit. It has been adopted even by oldest religion like Hindu, some Hindu is Monotheistic, just like what is believed by Balinese Hindu who worship supreme God called Sang Hyang Widi.

Sorry if you believe in Adam and Eve then don’t quote me because I don’t want to waste time with your likes.

 

[Imad.Khan]

The irony and stupidity that you are following an outsider faith

That is your opinion and you are entitled to it, do you reckon all the Christians in Europe, North & South America, Australia and the rest of the world are also stupid for following a religion that is also a Semitic religion?

 

[dani92]

That is your opinion and you are entitled to it, do you reckon all the Christians in Europe, North & South America, Australia and the rest of the world are also stupid for following a religion that is also a Semitic religion?

They are stupid they believe in a carpenter Jew in Israel who was nailed on by some Italians as their savior lol.

 

[Imad.Khan]

They are stupid they believe in a carpenter Jew in Israel who was nailed on by some Italians as their savior lol.

Fair enough, looks like in your opinion everyone is stupid or retard. explains alot.

 

[Indos]

Sorry if you believe in Adam and Eve then don’t quote me because I don’t want to waste time with your likes.

So you are the group who believe modern human comes from apes ? So why other apes dont transform into human then ?

There are many homo erectus (primitive human) live in many part of the world in ancient time like in Java, Europe, China (Peking), but modern human entirely comes from Africa just like what DNA study reveals and have nothing to do with those primitive human, so do you still believe with that human evolution theory ?

The most reasonable explanation for that is that all of them (primitive human) have gone extinct just like what happen with dinosaurus that most probably happen due to big volcano eruption or others (big meteor impact).

Thats why according to Quran, angle have bad image about human even before modern human (Adam and Hawa) ever created by God. It shows primitive human existence are acknowledged by Quran, and angel resentment look like due to their knowledge on those primitive human behavior on earth.

Surah Al-Baqarah verse 30

“And [mention, O Muhammad], when your Lord said to the angels, ‘Indeed, I will make upon the earth a successive authority.’ They said, ‘Will You place upon it one who causes corruption therein and sheds blood, while we declare Your praise and sanctify You?’ Allah said, ‘Indeed, I know that which you do not know.’ ”

 

[dani92]

So you are the group who believe modern human comes from apes ? So why other apes dont transform into human then ?

There are many homo erectus (primitive human) live in many part of the world in ancient time like in Java, Europe, China (Peking), but modern human entirely comes from Africa just like what DNA study reveals and have nothing to do with those primitive human, so do you still believe with that human evolution theory ?

The most reasonable explanation for that is that all of them (primitive human) have gone extinct just like what happen with dinosaurus that most probably happen due to big volcano eruption or others (big meteor impact).

Thats why according to Quran, angle have bad image about human even before modern human (Adam and Hawa) ever created by God. It shows primitive human existence are acknowledged by Quran, and angel resentment look like due to their knowledge on those primitive human behavior on earth.

Surah Al-Baqarah verse 30

“And [mention, O Muhammad], when your Lord said to the angels, ‘Indeed, I will make upon the earth a successive authority.’ They said, ‘Will You place upon it one who causes corruption therein and sheds blood, while we declare Your praise and sanctify You?’ Allah said, ‘Indeed, I know that which you do not know.’ ”

Your post prove how much religious brainwashing have effected you first as we said it million times before the evolution doesn’t say we are apes but as and the apes have one ancestor so what you religious clowns doing is spread lies and don’t know what the fck evolution is all about.