Is it right to attack South Waziristan now?

[Patriot]

All Green,

Solution is very simple , GOP stop all support to US and cancel all future arms deals with US better extend hand of friendship with Russia and China.

US is very close to defeat , in this senario better we should review our friendship with US , because they will not stay in Afghanistan defeat.

We need long term support and friendship which China and Russia can provide.

Root cause of increasing insurgency is US drone attacks , the day these attacks stopped you will see great change in Pakistan.

Yep, the day drone attacks are stopped you will see Jihadis blowing up in main cities of Pakistan specailly Peshawar.Not that they are not doing it already.Drone attacks i agree should be stopped.Army should go in to clear the damn area.Drone attacks can only help so much and stop talking about Russia.You don't know **** about international diplomacy and you are talking as if Russia is going to protect your ***.Root cause of insurgency is not drone attacks but people like you who provide moral as well as financial support to TTP.

 

[waraich66]

Chinese and Turkey Troops on Pakistani soil to fight US?Fundamentalist , you are surely smoking some good ****.Just twisting words to support your Jihadi supporters.No matter how much you whine about army here.Wazrisitan will be dealt with iron fist.I know you will provide moral and financial support to your Talibans but they will be taken care off.

Yes , Chinies and Turkish army trainers and latest equipments are always well come by all Pakistanis, majority of Pakistanis are against US so they will not accept long term stay of US forces in PAK soil.

US is playing double game (Refused to provide latest equipment because they have fear that we will use them against india) every citizen know except you and few of your supporters in ths forum sorry to say

 

[All-Green]

All Green,

Solution is very simple , GOP stop all support to US and cancel all future arms deals with US better extend hand of friendship with Russia and China.

US is very close to defeat , in this senario better we should review our friendship with US , because they will not stay in Afghanistan after defeat.

We need long term support and friendship which China and Russia can provide.

Root cause of increasing insurgency is US drone attacks , the day these attacks stopped you will see great change in Pakistan.

Solution is anything but simple, however in all scenarios...PA has to move in an flush the TTP out...only then can any other step be considered...

I can assure you one thing, once PA moves in the tribal areas the drone attacks will be directed by Pakistan Army itself since it will be a hot zone...so i see this concern of yours being addressed only once we ourselves control the territory....
I disagree with US conducting drone attacks but if PA is controlling the drone and killing people like Baitullah Mehsud...i will be 100% with PA on such a strategy...

You may also want to think that right now our all our enemies want us to fail in Waziristan...since that will enable them to cry about us as a failed state and defeated at the hands of terrorists...such is what they would want to let Pakistan become a joke of country which will become isolated due to daily bombings and acts of terrorism and its defeat in taking on the terrorists...this thing also applies if we do not act against the TTP...only option is to fight to win...this will send message to all enemies be them internal or external that this is what Pakistan will do to its enemies...
If we succeed Inshallah...it shall help us to regain sovereignty of Pakistan...it will make us much stronger...

Regarding ties with US...i say we milk them as long as we are acting against our enemies the TTP...we should not follow anyone into Afghanistan...we should let Afghans sort their issues out and remain independent of all including US in this...once we regain control...we can do this...
In the meanwhile we should provide Afghans the assistance via trade which we always have done...

However we should definitely align ourselves with China so that beyond 2015 we are more independent of US and its assistance...
we always are close to China but definitely our partnership with US has to change in a decade or so in order for us to become even closer to China...

I think this can be done...at least our military has become China centric since the 90s and i see this only becoming stronger over the next decades...

With Russia we would need a miracle...i think much depends upon trade potential Russia sees in Pakistan...still i must say it is a long shot...very unlikely unless Russia suddenly falls in love with Pakistan...but certainly not impossible...given that Russia did allow China to reexport Russian engines to PAF.

 

[Fracker]

The concept of ummah is long gone, now every body is for himself. Why do you so conveniently forget that it is not alone Pakistan's responsible to gather Ummah, what about other Muslim countries, isnt their duty too to make sure some kind of alliance is formed between Muslim countries but no, Turkey is busy sucking up to get included in NATO while SA is busy licking US balls.
Its time we forget the whole ummah thing and move on. Pakistan comes first and that is what should be our priority and not some lost concept.

And one more thing somewhere you said there should be Chinese and Turkish army on Pakistan soil, let me ask you does the word sovereignty means anything to you or have we become so pathetic that we openly wish for foreign armies on our soil. Frankly it appears we have no respect for what our elders laid their lives for, why do you think we demanded a separate home land if in the end we wished for foreign armies on our soil. The attitude is pathetic to say the least which would make us a laughing stock all around the world.

1. Yes i agree Ummah is gone for now since we stopped following our religion, and this is the reason we are facing this punishment from Allah.
2. Wrong, it is responsibility of every muslim to think about ummah, including pakistan, and you wont be asked for other people deeds, but your own deeds,,, So forget whether they are moving towards unity or not, just do your Job. Otherwise Allah's next punishment is ready for us.. it is just matter of time when we will be in worst situation.. (don't agree, check the history record)
3. Pakistan is based on the two nation theory, so even if pakistan comes first for you, still you can't think about forgetting ummah thing.. it is your priority, choose pakistan or islam, both has same answer for you..
4. Foreign arms are already here, we saw in swat, even pak army was more skilled, more in number yet they face some difficulties, since they had weapons better then PA. PA even couldn't block the channel of Fazullullah.. there is no harm in getting latest weapons, unless you have them, rather then your enemy..

 

[Fracker]

Solution is anything but simple, however in all scenarios...PA has to move in an flush the TTP out...only then can any other step be considered...

ohh come on, tell me if PA even flush out TTP in SW, and Swat remain in control of PA, do you really think problem will be solved? What i take is, TTP or something like BLA will appear from somewhere else, like now people started to use Punjab Taliban, since we aren't working removing cause for this problem.. but we are just working on symptoms.. btw i agree now PA need to have an operation in SW, but this wont work without political work.. i say, pakistan should show now some brutality towards TTP, and make it happen in minimum time.. so the enemies start realizing the power of PA. otherwise it is fun for us to have dramas around.. we need to generate some fear from PA..

 

[batmannow]

You agreed that innocient people die and million will be IDP's but no concern about them , think no need to even discuss because you dont have any concern about them.



For you concept of UMMAH is bullshit , very sad brother say immediate sorry to Allah.

Better read about islam there is no harm at any age you can learn but if you have desire .

There are four stages of human beings living on the earth.

Stage1- Who care about other humans -known as Ashraf Makhlukat
Stage2-Who only care about them self-Equivalent to Animals
Stage3-Who need blood of human beings known as (Daranda) Wolf,Loin etc.
Stage4-Who dont have any benefit to harm human , only to satisfy their hatred known as muzi (snake) etc .

Allah will accept their tuba at stage 1&2 but when they reach at stage 4 the doors of hadayat will be closed for them.

DAM IT, just come back to topic!
i also not see any carrings of the innocent peoples dying everyday in all major cities of pakistan IN YOUR POSTS?so, dont expect, that rest of pakistanis will care , what will happen to these animals (TTP), also stop , acting like a ISLAMIC scholor ! you are not!
i guss, even you cant get "khitabat" in your own towns "MOSQUE", YOU are not a WALI-UL-ALLAHA , to judge other muslims, but you keep supporting those, who are killing the, innocent MUSLIMS.ITS A TIME FOR you, read "iztagfirallha" eveery day , at least 1000, times.MAY ALLAHA , GIVE YOU HIS"HIDAYAT"

 

[waraich66]

Solution is anything but simple, however in all scenarios...PA has to move in an flush the TTP out...only then can any other step be considered...

I can assure you one thing, once PA moves in the tribal areas the drone attacks will be directed by Pakistan Army itself since it will be a hot zone...so i see this concern of yours being addressed only once we ourselves control the territory....
I disagree with US conducting drone attacks but if PA is controlling the drone and killing people like Baitullah Mehsud...i will be 100% with PA on such a strategy...

You may also want to think that right now our all our enemies want us to fail in Waziristan...since that will enable them to cry about us as a failed state and defeated at the hands of terrorists...such is what they would want to let Pakistan become a joke of country which will become isolated due to daily bombings and acts of terrorism and its defeat in taking on the terrorists...this thing also applies if we do not act against the TTP...only option is to fight to win...this will send message to all enemies be them internal or external that this is what Pakistan will do to its enemies...
If we succeed Inshallah...it shall help us to regain sovereignty of Pakistan...it will make us much stronger...

Regarding ties with US...i say we milk them as long as we are acting against our enemies the TTP...we should not follow anyone into Afghanistan...we should let Afghans sort their issues out and remain independent of all including US in this...once we regain control...we can do this...
In the meanwhile we should provide Afghans the assistance via trade which we always have done...

However we should definitely align ourselves with China so that beyond 2015 we are more independent of US and its assistance...
we always are close to China but definitely our partnership with US has to change in a decade or so in order for us to become even closer to China...

I think this can be done...at least our military has become China centric since the 90s and i see this only becoming stronger over the next decades...

With Russia we would need a miracle...i think much depends upon trade potential Russia sees in Pakistan...still i must say it is a long shot...very unlikely unless Russia suddenly falls in love with Pakistan...but certainly not impossible...given that Russia did allow China to reexport Russian engines to PAF.

I dont think GOP and PA are ready for attack within next one year, our cities are not fully secured(TTP already started war in cities) , no arrangement had done for IDPs and financial condition for war is in favour.

Local population and majority of Pakistanis are against US drones attackes and even attack on waziristan.

In these condition if PA attacked on waziristan chance of success will be very low and their is possibility the fire of war spread in Balouchistan and Punjab and Sindh.

I dont think we have enough reserve army to control gurrilla war idf started in all parts of Pakistan .

 

[waraich66]

DAM IT, just come back to topic!
i also not see any carrings of the innocent peoples dying everyday in all major cities of pakistan IN YOUR POSTS?so, dont expect, that rest of pakistanis will care , what will happen to these animals (TTP), also stop , acting like a ISLAMIC scholor ! you are not!
i guss, even you cant get "khitabat" in your own towns "MOSQUE", YOU are not a WALI-UL-ALLAHA , to judge other muslims, but you keep supporting those, who are killing the, innocent MUSLIMS.ITS A TIME FOR you, read "iztagfirallha" eveery day , at least 1000, times.MAY ALLAHA , GIVE YOU HIS"HIDAYAT"

You can be also become wali ul allah , may be you are you dont know

Allah wanted every muslim become wali allah .Allah love us 70 times more then our mothers.

So please stop blame game , both of us should say astagfurallah and also whole nation .All muslims are like brothers

Lets start greater jehad to spread love,peace and learn and practice islam in our 24 hour life.

Our 24 hour life is abadat if we spend it as per Quran and Sunnah.

When we will not fullfill the orders and rights of Allah , resultant will be bloodshed and war.

 

[S-2]

"Regarding ties with US...i say we milk them as long as we are acting against our enemies the TTP..."

M,

Silly and small-minded. The Dow went over 10,000 today.

I expect a bit more care from your thoughts and such is very disappointing.

Reading such makes clear that it's in our best interests to accelerate your demise instead of trying to prevent you from destroying yourselves.

Do you think I care if you cut off our supply routes? I PRAY that you do so, btw, and that it provokes our complete withdrawal from Afghanistan. I PRAY that your proxies regain control of Afghanistan.

You understand what follows that afghan taliban reconquest, of course? A.Q. attacking us (and you) while the taliban turn their assistance upon their Pakistani brothers and their fight against you.

When they complete THAT task, we'll be back in a manner that has nothing to do with aid. What WILL you do? Nuke...

...India?

In the interim, the PRC LAUGHS at you. What can you POSSIBLY offer the PRC? What would THEY possibly offer you. Have you forgotten Zardari's trip to the PRC and returning empty-handed? They WON'T be replacing our markets for your commercial goods and services even if they COULD.

Remember what your relationship with them serves? They, afterall, will fight India some day right down to...

...the last Pakistani.

I'm eager for you to awake our congress like I've been to date unable.

Oh! Please consider a military coup to right your ship because that's the ticket to American emancipation from your duplicitous clutches. That WILL awaken even the most slumbering congressman. Guaranteed.

Kind regards,

S-2

 

[SSGPA1]

Please invoke a coup.

Please cut off all trade with America.

Please don't accept any further aid from America.

Please continue supporting proxy armies.

Please don't become dizzy while watching your country circle the drain.

Majority of Pakistanis would agree with your thoughts and will ensure that Pakistan survives as it did in the 90s.

On the other hand, I would suggest the US govt. (If they take your suggested actions) to expedite the orders of body bags with destination in Afghanistan.

What makes you think thta Russia and China will hesitate from supporting Pakistan against the US??

Thank God everyday that Pakistan is your ally, so far, otherwise Afghanistan was going to be worse then Vietnam for you.

 

[SSGPA1]

I have read some disturbing comments regarding the Afghan war etc and I would like to share my thoughts on the issue.

1. Afghan war fighters were Mujahids.

2. Afghan Mujahids were educated people of Afghanistan and were supported by people from around the globe.

3. Mujahids never did suicide bombings on civilian targets nor did they exceed in thier revenge.

4. Due to Afghan war education system in Afghanistan collapsed and uneducated people took control of madaris in their hands.

5. Same uneducated maulvis took control of some madaris of Pakistan and the end result:

An extremist mentallity without any tolerance now controls the Talibans.

We need to go to SW and take out anyone who challenge the writ of the GoP, period.

At the same time we need to ensure that support and care is provided to the civilians in SW.

 

[All-Green]

"Regarding ties with US...i say we milk them as long as we are acting against our enemies the TTP..."

M,

Silly and small-minded. The Dow went over 10,000 today.

I expect a bit more care from your thoughts and such is very disappointing.

Reading such makes clear that it's in our best interests to accelerate your demise instead of trying to prevent you from destroying yourselves.

Do you think I care if you cut off our supply routes? I PRAY that you do so, btw, and that it provokes our complete withdrawal from Afghanistan. I PRAY that your proxies regain control of Afghanistan.

You understand what follows that afghan taliban reconquest, of course? A.Q. attacking us (and you) while the taliban turn their assistance upon their Pakistani brothers and their fight against you.

When they complete THAT task, we'll be back in a manner that has nothing to do with aid. What WILL you do? Nuke...

...India?

In the interim, the PRC LAUGHS at you. What can you POSSIBLY offer the PRC? What would THEY possibly offer you. Have you forgotten Zardari's trip to the PRC and returning empty-handed? They WON'T be replacing our markets for your commercial goods and services even if they COULD.

Remember what your relationship with them serves? They, afterall, will fight India some day right down to...

...the last Pakistani.

I'm eager for you to awake our congress like I've been to date unable.

Oh! Please consider a military coup to right your ship because that's the ticket to American emancipation from your duplicitous clutches. That WILL awaken even the most slumbering congressman. Guaranteed.

Kind regards,

S-2

S-2

That is all what you got from my post...i guess i feel sorry as well...

Alliances are based on trust and mutual goodwill...i am afraid what i have been seeing is anything but that...

Our partnership...no matter how it has been should be clearly defined...

PA is going to clean up Pakistan and that is it...we have no more resources than that...if at all we manage that it shall take a heavy toll...
You must know that this will be a very taxing battle for Pakistan which i am convinced has to be fought by Pakistan.

After this battle Pakistan will be vulnerable on many accounts...

Economically
Militarily
Strategically via the permanent enmity of many sub clans affiliated with TTP and even across the border who may see this as pro US action...

Whereas we have to fight it for our sakes, i cannot help but think that there has to be assurances from our allies that it shall be enough for them...i mean there will always be trouble for US in the Pak Afghan border...however we cannot stop that...it shall be practically us intruding into Afghanistan...I do not think any Pakistani wants their country to be involved in Afghanistan anymore...we have suffered terribly due to this mistake...

What is your issue here?
US is also saying that their aid is to help Pakistan combat terrorism...that is their official version...i hope it reflects the intent as well...
That is why i use the term to Milk US in taking on our enemies the TTP...it is the perfect slogan around which the nation can agree that as long as US is helping us to fight our enemies we accept this partnership...
certainly TTP is the enemy of Pakistan which is condemned by all...they are terrorists...both fall under the category for which US is willing to help us...why deny this i say?

Are you hoping for Pakistan to win or lose?
If we win against TTP fighting for our sake then what is your issue?

Our economy is in shambles, we need the assistance from our ally but it has been a year and still the cash does not seem to flow...it almost seems if we are the enemy now...
A war is fought with money, if we run out of money then we cannot use those big machines...knowing this PA will attack TTP where they are most strong...it is quite a tough operation...you would know this i assume...

This is the only middle ground i find...Pakistan accept US aid but takes all the actions itself against the terrorist to regain its sovereignty...we have to use this line to win over all the public...this is the only right cause to which the nation will rally...to kill the terrorists and regain our sovereignty...
We should not tolerate ISAF to extend its actions to Pakistani territory...the drones though useful still have managed to make public opinion extremely negative because it seems like we are not trusted to kill the terrorists and US wants to rule our skies...
we have to regain our honor and for that we certainly have to negotiate better with our allies about how they can better help us without compromising on our sovereignty....

Regarding ties with CHina...they have to use Gwadar and are our traditional ally and neighbour...with passage of time US will move away and we have to cater for that scenario...it does not mean we treat US as our enemy...
When the US does not need Pakistan to support it in Afghanistan...will the US help its ally?
I think in the past we have solid evidence to the contrary...that no one can deny...we can debate on the reasons but that is what happened...even your secretary of state admits it and i admire her for this...If the current crisis of trust continues we have no option but to think that this is the beginning of yet another ending...

Even enemies can be respected...it is time Pakistan also gets some respect as an ally...that shall always be important to me as a Pakistani...as silly and small minded as i may sound to you...

 

[All-Green]

ohh come on, tell me if PA even flush out TTP in SW, and Swat remain in control of PA, do you really think problem will be solved? What i take is, TTP or something like BLA will appear from somewhere else, like now people started to use Punjab Taliban, since we aren't working removing cause for this problem.. but we are just working on symptoms.. btw i agree now PA need to have an operation in SW, but this wont work without political work.. i say, pakistan should show now some brutality towards TTP, and make it happen in minimum time.. so the enemies start realizing the power of PA. otherwise it is fun for us to have dramas around.. we need to generate some fear from PA..

This is exactly what i am saying...make these terrorist rascals pay dearly...to make those who have not yet joined the battle feel afraid of Pakistan and throw their militant ambitions out the window....

What i am suggesting is the only practical alternative...expecting the cold blooded terrorists to come talk with us is very naive and also against any moral principles...we should use awe and shock and deliver a mailed fist to their smirking faces...only once they are broken here should we talk with any body who wants to be a good boy...

 

[All-Green]

I dont think GOP and PA are ready for attack within next one year, our cities are not fully secured(TTP already started war in cities) , no arrangement had done for IDPs and financial condition for war is in favour.

Local population and majority of Pakistanis are against US drones attackes and even attack on waziristan.

In these condition if PA attacked on waziristan chance of success will be very low and their is possibility the fire of war spread in Balouchistan and Punjab and Sindh.

I dont think we have enough reserve army to control gurrilla war idf started in all parts of Pakistan .

Brother, i am witness to many Pakistanis and PA helping out the IDPs...please stop with these statements...

Yes we are against the principle of drone attacks carried out without our permission but if PA uses these drones it has my full support...

Cities will never be safe unless the major terrorist bases are taken out completely...after this there will be a tremendous improvement...once you secure the territory only then you can stop the recruitments, the trainings and even the supplies...for all of this we have to act...sorry the only other option is bending knees to these tafkiri bastards which we cannot afford to do...

I expect a resistance in Baluchistan and Punjab and even in some forests in Sindh, once we make them run, however it shall eventually die down once we make an example of TTP in Waziristan and show our resolve to continue to hunt these rascals down...

Regarding the majority of Pakistanis not wanting an operation, that is incorrect...majority wants operation, though they want Pakistan to become more balanced in its ties with US...that can be done...

 

[batmannow]

You can be also become wali ul allah , may be you are you dont know

Allah wanted every muslim become wali allah .Allah love us 70 times more then our mothers.

So please stop blame game , both of us should say astagfurallah and also whole nation .All muslims are like brothers

Lets start greater jehad to spread love,peace and learn and practice islam in our 24 hour life.

Our 24 hour life is abadat if we spend it as per Quran and Sunnah.

When we will not fullfill the orders and rights of Allah , resultant will be bloodshed and war.

all , i can say is that, plz stop posting here , that isnt the topic here!
if you want to full fill your crazy , thoughts plz, join QTV or go to teach TTP, by the way if , you so strong with ur "iman" plz go & let terrorists understand the meanings of "ISLAM" & "UMMAHA" & STOP of bieng a "INTERNET PIR", IF you not come back to topic , i will report you!
dont post hanky ,panky any more!