Iranian Missiles | News and Discussions

[TheImmortal]

Hell, why not both man lol.

Because it doesn’t work. Why would you want to build something that countries already attempted and failed 80 years ago Saddam also did this route.

US also attempted a high tech version of this and decided against it. Best route would be to build supersonic shells for existing Navy cannons like US is doing. But Iran lacks a modern Navy for such a cannon anyway. Anything on land is a sitting duck to swarm attacks. Not viable.

The U.S. Navy’s $500 million electromagnetic railgun—capable of slinging projectiles at hypersonic speeds—lacks funding and has no coherent plan to deploy on warships. The Navy is instead pursuing an offshoot of the railgun, a hypervelocity projectile it can fire from existing gun systems

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.po.../navy-ships/amp32291935/navy-railgun-failure/


My route is the best, supersonic glide bomber drones are very hard to intercept and can reach any point in the Middle East within the hour. Be preprogrammed. And drop heavy payloads.

It would be the most important and game changing Iranian weapon design in the history of the republic. But would effectively remove the need for an Air Force outside of Interceptors for defending the country airspace.

 

[Blue In Green]

Because it doesn’t work. Why would you want to build something that countries already attempted and failed 80 years ago Saddam also did this route.

US also attempted a high tech version of this and decided against it. Best route would be to build supersonic shells for existing Navy cannons like US is doing. But Iran lacks a modern Navy for such a cannon anyway. Anything on land is a sitting duck to swarm attacks. Not viable.

The U.S. Navy’s $500 million electromagnetic railgun—capable of slinging projectiles at hypersonic speeds—lacks funding and has no coherent plan to deploy on warships. The Navy is instead pursuing an offshoot of the railgun, a hypervelocity projectile it can fire from existing gun systems

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.po.../navy-ships/amp32291935/navy-railgun-failure/

It'd be a nice thing to have but you do bring up a really good point. As a feasible (or in this case not feasible) modern military weapon, it is an antiquated idea that performed middling to poorly in the past. I'd imagine the size of said cannon would be smaller then what the Germans had given all the advancements in metallurgy, construction and propellent that would be used in an up-to-date version.

We really shouldn't dwell on it all that much though, Iran doesn't seem to have any plans on building such a cannon as their focus still is missiles but the idea is admittedly alluring since it kind of has that "bad-***" factor to it, you know, big cannons and all that lol. Superficial aesthetics of "strong" military power are often shown off with cannons, so the concept of developing a huge-super longed range one does have its merits if applied correctly.

 

[Hack-Hook]

Key problem would be guidance electronics/systems that survive the ~350g acceleration loads.
Unguided and it may be of no useful tactical value.

It clearly show that the U.S is aware that "enemy A2/AD" menace cant be well handled by its conventional airpower concept.
The plan would be to use a battery of these and send a unguided barrage, once satellite early warning detects a missile launch, hoping to kill the TEL in time.

he canon would be enormous , very hard to target and need a lot of power .
useless for what you stated

I think you can't consider only the cost of shells. Loading the canon itself for a new launch will be expensive too. After all, an explosion that fires the projectile must have its energy come from something. No?

Moreover, why would anyone scrap guided missiles for unguided ballistic projectiles?

the plan is to use mgnetic fie if I recall correctly

 

[QWECXZ]

the plan is to use mgnetic fie if I recall correctly

Yup. But it's still expensive. You will need a strong magnetic field which will consume a lot of electricity (i.e. energy).

 

[Hack-Hook]

If you believe this attack in Abqaiq was done from Yemen, it will be 1000 miles away and this level of accuracy is likely Laser guided, maybe Laser guidance from a drone.

it can also be achieved with a cheap primitive AI and a camera.

 

[Shawnee]

it can also be achieved with a cheap primitive AI and a camera.

I think you mean image processing/pattern recognition. The drone actually uses image processing methods and focuses its laser source on the target.

Now you may say why not use image processing directly on the cruise missile or projectile?

The answer is the time which is the bottleneck for the projectile but not for a reconnaissance drone.

There are many cruise missiles with optical and image processing guidance as an extra navigation help though but this level of pinpoint accuracy is beyond just pattern recognition.

Object recognition based on image processing has three main types:

1. Feature extraction and feature tracking

2. Optimization/optical flow/etc

3. Correlation/MAD

The most commonly used technique is type 1 because it is very fast but it will have significant erroneous feature extraction. It should not be used alone.

 

[Hack-Hook]

I think you mean image processing/pattern recognition. The drone actually uses image processing methods and focuses its laser source on the target.

Now you may say why not use image processing directly on the cruise missile or projectile?

The answer is the time which is the bottleneck for the projectile but not for a reconnaissance drone.

There are many cruise missiles with optical and image processing guidance as an extra navigation help though but this level of pinpoint accuracy is beyond just pattern recognition.

the time my be a constraint when you use normal chips , but a specialized chip do it tens of times faster and is smaller and actully cheaper than a multiporpuse chip you find in your phones. it only supposed to process the images . even a single middle range GPU chip can do the processing alot faster than a high end CPU. it all come to use the correct tools. right now image processing in cruise missile are advanced enough to do the needed processing for finding their path acording to key point in their course in real time so finding the target and hitting the domeis not a problem for them

 

[Shawnee]

the time my be a constraint when you use normal chips , but a specialized chip do it tens of times faster and is smaller and actully cheaper than a multiporpuse chip you find in your phones. it only supposed to process the images . even a single middle range GPU chip can do the processing alot faster than a high end CPU. it all come to use the correct tools. right now image processing in cruise missile are advanced enough to do the needed processing for finding their path acording to key point in their course in real time so finding the target and hitting the domeis not a problem for them

I liked that you brought up the idea of GPU acceleration. It used to be the favorite of many in Iran back in the day.

Let’s go back to computer structure 101. معماری کامپیوتر
Do we have to include a GPU in the board of a cruise missile? We do not have visualization there?

Chips will not help. What type of chip? FPGA? Microcontroller? EROM?
What type of chip does Iran produce, other than these?
I think there is a semi supercomputer in most Iranian cruise missiles with image processing softwares rather than a chip.

Despite all the techniques to speed up an optimization algorithm like GPU acceleration, multi grid, etc, it is difficult to do it accurately and in time.

There are many fast techniques but with failures in feature tracking.

 

[Hack-Hook]

I liked that you brought up the idea of GPU acceleration. It used to be the favorite of many in Iran back in the day.

Let’s go back to computer structure 101. معماری کامپیوتر
Do we have to include a GPU in the board of a cruise missile? We do not have visualization there?

Chips will not help. What type of chip? FPGA? Microcontroller? EROM?
What type of chip does Iran produce, other than these?
I think there is a semi supercomputer in most Iranian cruise missiles with image processing softwares rather than a chip.

Despite all the techniques to speed up an optimization algorithm like GPU acceleration, multi grid, etc, it is difficult to do it accurately and in time.

There are many fast techniques but with failures in feature tracking.

I stated the GPU to say it can be done with the proper tools and a CPU or bunch of them is not optimal tool . there are some socs and FPGA that do the job faster than several xeon processor working together . you do the initial work with FPGA then hand the data to processor and that do the rest of the work for you.
if the technology is fast and available so we can put a optic seeker on the head of balistic missiles . then why you think we can't do it for 5-20 time slower suicide drones and cruise missiles ?

 

[QWECXZ]

As a matter of fact, using pattern recognition and image processing methods will be incredibly sophisticated as most known algorithms for these problems are computationally heavy and real time processing, specially for a projectile that travels extremely fast, will be a huge challenge; even if you use a low level language like C with an application specific IC like a TPU.

 

[Shawnee]

I stated the GPU to say it can be done with the proper tools and a CPU or bunch of them is not optimal tool . there are some socs and FPGA that do the job faster than several xeon processor working together . you do the initial work with FPGA then hand the data to processor and that do the rest of the work for you.
if the technology is fast and available so we can put a optic seeker on the head of balistic missiles . then why you think we can't do it for 5-20 time slower suicide drones and cruise missiles ?

FPGA has no value for this type of work. It is a basic circuit for Lower level jobs like AI of washing machines. An image is too much for FPGA, even if you only want to denoise it.

The technology is not there yet to do a fast and accurate feature extraction job.
It should process 24-40 frames per second. It is a big thing to accurately do feature extraction. Accuracy rate are like 89-90% based on recent articles.

Why do you think we use laser guidance for ATGM? If we can do image processing, why take the risk and emit laser on the tank?

The guy who projects the Laser over the target on the ground is risking his life. The moment image processing is good enough, Laser guidance will fade away.

Once again, most cruise missiles have optical guidance as an extra tool. They do image processing as an extra tool along with inertia and GPS.

The best navigation is multimodal navigation. Use image processing, inertia, GPS and then you can exclude the outlier.

 

[Hack-Hook]

FPGA has no value for this type of work. It is a basic circuit for Lower level jobs like AI of washing machines.

FPGA do the image processing , it dont decide what's images are about , those will be sent to a processor and that do it.
an FPGAcan do the job of around 12 processor on that matter.
by the way as I said how you explain this video from 2012

It show the optical seeker lock into target at Mach 3

 

[QWECXZ]

FPGA do the image processing , it dont decide what's images are about , those will be sent to a processor and that do it.
an FPGAcan do the job of around 12 processor on that matter.
by the way as I said how you explain this video from 2012

It show the optical seeker lock into target at Mach 3

The Persian Gulf missile isn't really a good example here. There aren't many potential targets on sea to choose from. The Abqaiq attack is a whole different story. Targeting the military infrastructures of a country near a civilian area will be a whole other story. Also, there is little known about the capabilities of the Persian Gulf missile in bad weather conditions or at night.

 

[Shawnee]

FPGA do the image processing , it dont decide what's images are about , those will be sent to a processor and that do it.
an FPGAcan do the job of around 12 processor on that matter.
by the way as I said how you explain this video from 2012

It show the optical seeker lock into target at Mach 3

I agree that FPGA has been used for images but for lower level jobs. What do you gain from an FPGA preprocessing in a missile? Time? Accuracy? Do it all within your algorithm.

I watched the video. The fact that the ROI is focused on the ship does not mean guidance is purely image based. The ROI could be overlaid after the acquisition. The way the ROI resizes from 0:15 to 0:16 is like it is overlaid afterward. I don’t think the ROI is computer generated.

I am positive most Iranian missiles are multimodal guidance (Image processing, inertia, GPS) and they combine the data in some way.

Once again if image processing is good enough, let’s have camera-based ATGM and save the life of the Laser guy on the ground.

 

[Hack-Hook]

The Persian Gulf missile isn't really a good example here. There aren't many potential targets on sea to choose from. The Abqaiq attack is a whole different story. Targeting the military infrastructures of a country near a civilian area will be a whole other story. Also, there is little known about the capabilities of the Persian Gulf missile in bad weather conditions or at night.

you see persian gulf missile have only seconds to decide what to do a suicide drone or cruise missile compared to it have all the time in the world. we have land based balistic missile to do that for example we have Fatih-e-Mobin