Iran’s Sunnis, Saudi’s Shias; a Fair Comparison

[Mahmoud_EGY]

Going into this battle were some of the most heavily armored knights of the Middle Ages, among them the prominent Livonian branch of the Teutonic Order.

respect to russia
from the Teutonic Order to napoleone and hitlar they defended their land

 

[King Solomon]

You are wrong on this count S-19

1.Battle of Ice between Russia and Teutonic Knight.

The 6 Most Insane Underdog Stories in the History of Battle | Cracked.com


2.Britain encouraged Piracy against Spain in caribbean in the name of Protestant Vs Catholic Holy War.



Piracy in the Caribbean - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The russian war was not a sectarian one. Only the 30-year war in the Holy Roman Empire qualifies to that category.

Yet, the Christian world is mostly secular now and infighting between sects is impossible. Muslims must go the same way for peace including shia and sunni countries. Ihope secular candidates are elected in Egypt..

respect to russia
from the Teutonic Order to napoleone and hitlar they defended their land

Thank you. From the Grand Dutchy of Moscova, Russia has been involved in wars and conflicts almost every single year of its existence. Most of the wars have resulted in victory.

Often we fought technologically superior armies like that of Napoleon, Nazis, King Charles XII of sweden etc. who had the best armies in Europe and the world. God helped us in every conflicts.

List of wars involving Russia - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[IbnAlwaled]

Thank you. From the Grand Dutchy of Moscova, Russia has been involved in wars and conflicts almost every single year of its existence. Most of the wars have resulted in victory.

Often we fought technologically superior armies like that of Napoleon, Nazis, King Charles XII of sweden etc. who had the best armies in Europe and the world. God helped us in every conflicts.

List of wars involving Russia - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Stop bieng delusional, Russian winter is the only reason why Napoleon and Hitler didn't sack Moscow.

 

[anonymus]

Stop bieng delusional, Russian winter is the only reason why Napoleon and Hitler didn't sack Moscow.

You are ignoring the massive population and Grain bearing steppes advantage that Russia had over others.

 

[Desert Fox]

Have this guy heard anything about Parachinar's Shias??

Incidents related to that have to do with religious extremists persecuting Shia's, but that is mostly confined to the Tribal areas and some parts of KPK province due to lack of education and exploiting on part of the extremist mullahs. You won't find such things taking place in Progressive regions of Pakistan.

Before the 1980's Soviet occupation of Afghanistan, attacks on Shia's and similar incidents were mostly unheard of in Pakistan. Most, if not all, Pakistanis followed a Sufi influenced Sunni Islam and no one even knew who was Shia or Sunni, everyone prayed in the same Mosques, celebrated the same holidays, intermarried and coexisted peacefully. This was mostly due to the fact that when hindus were slaughtering Muslims in 1947, and train loads of dead Muslim bodies were coming to Pakistan, they didn't ask those people which Sect they belonged to before butchering, raping, kidnapping and looting them, they slaughtered them because they were Muslims, and it was this tragedy that left its mark in the minds of the old generation that they (our enemy) committed those atrocious crimes against us because of our common faith and our desire to have our own Nation where we could go to the Mosques without having to worry about someone tossing pig heads into the mosque or some safron gangs bullying our people and preventing us from worshiping our Lord, a Nation where we could preserve our ideals and our distinct identity, and SubhanAllah we got that homeland in the form of Pakistan, achieved after so much sacrifices.

 

[FaujHistorian]

Incidents related to that have to do with religious extremists persecuting Shia's, but that is mostly confined to the Tribal areas and some parts of KPK province due to lack of education and exploiting on part of the extremist mullahs. You won't find such things taking place in Progressive regions of Pakistan.

Before the 1980's Soviet occupation of Afghanistan, attacks on Shia's and similar incidents were mostly unheard of in Pakistan. Most, if not all, Pakistanis followed a Sufi influenced Sunni Islam and no one even knew who was Shia or Sunni, everyone prayed in the same Mosques, celebrated the same holidays, intermarried and coexisted peacefully. T....

In general I agree with your views. However I beg to differ on your views on Shia-Sunni tussle in Pakistan, India etc.

Before I add specific points, let me add a comment by a Shia friend of mine.

We were discussing the religious /Islamists and their inhuman and primitive tribal behavior.

He said "When Ahmadis were persecuted in 1950s, their homes were looted, and they were murdered, their women dragged in streets, Pakistani-Shias should have stood up for Ahmadis. But unfortunately they remained silent on the heinous crimes against Ahmadis, by no other than the Big-beardo (may Allah punish him and send him to hell) Mullah Mawdoodi. And now Shias are getting much worse treatment than what Ahmadis got in 1950s.

My response to him was that yes. Pakistani Shias and Sunnis didn't protect Ahmadis and look what's happening to us now.

now I tell this to my family and friends that we must protect Shias and Ahmadis, otherwise we will not be safe just because we are in majority.

When Hitler was gassing and killing and murdering innocent Jews, German population remained silent, and then see what happened to them and how many millions and millions of Germans died.

Similarly, us the Sunni majority are silent in Pakistan and in that way we are condoning injustice to Shias, Ahmadis, Hindus, and Christians. This will surely bring Allah's punishment to us all where Sunnis will suffer too. and in much greater numbers than Ahmadis and Shias and Hindus and Christians.

Time to wake up for us all,


Coming back to Sunni-Shia stuff.

Well I won't go into how Sunnis are treated in Iran and how Shias are treated in Saudi. I have seen that with my own eyes and eyes filled with tears. Both Suadi Mullahs and Iranian Ayatullahs are followers of Satan when it comes to the treatment of minorities.

In general Shias and Sunnis had difficult relations as long as the history is known. Be it in Makkah, or Madina, or in Iran or in Iraq.

As long as we the Pakistanis think that Islam is more important than being Pakistani, we will remain the Islamist gutter treatment.

Moharram in the areas now in Pakistan has always been tense long before 1980 and long before 1947. Why? Why Shias had to be protected from Sunni goons just because Shias were taking out processions? Why in 1960s, and why in 1950s.

So no one should live in this khiyali dunyia that Shia and Sunnis were Bhai-Bhai before 1980s. That will be wrong. utterly wrong as it simply pushes the smelly religious cr@ap under the rug in the middle of our national living room.


However Shia-Sunni tussle in Pakistan became much worse with Iranian revolution of 1979. This is the time when Khomeni the drunkard started sending petro-dollars to Pakistani Shia organizations both civili and militant.

Yes Khomeni may be Rooh-allah for many Shias but I say this with heavy heart that he was rooh-al-Shiatan. He not only destabilized Pakistani by sending $$ to a vulnerable population of Pakistan, he also kicked out 100s of 1000s of Iranian minorities such as Bhahais, Jews, Christians etc. (Nothing against Khomeni, And I'll say the same thing about pope if he started $$ to Catholic armed groups. )

Many of those wonderful iranian minority groups came to Pakistan as refugees before leaving for better places.


So Iranian revolution of 1979 was the first to start modern day Islamist militancy in Pakistan.

I wish Pak-Shias had refused to become the tool of Shaitan Khomeni. Instead they were proud to distribute Khomeni and other Ayatullah literature in Pakistan and they were eager beavers to visit Iran using Iranian petro-dollars.

Why did Pak-Shias accept Khomenis hellish money? Because they felt Pak-Sunnis are not their true countrymen, Iranian Shias are.

Pak-Wahabis soon begged for and got petro-dollars from Saudi Mullahs aka Wahabi-Shiatin and formed their own militant organizations (Commie invasion of Afghanistan added much more Wahabi dollars in Pakistani goons of Wahabi variety)

The rest as they say is history.


I say this with no disrespect to any sect, but if we do not call Shaitan a Shaitan, then we are aiding and abetting injustice.

Sad to say that until Pakistani Shias and Sunnis do not dump their Islamism, we will remain mired in the Shia-Sunnis fasad as we have been for 100s of years.

And anyone who says Iranian Islamism is better for minorities compared to Saudi Islamism, he may be looking at minor difference between Big-Shaitan vs. Medium Shaitan but both still are devils.


peace and love for all and especially to the peaceful minorities who are suffering injustice in Pakistan.

 

[ephone]

I think Iran's Sunnis is much better adapted to modern society, human civilization.

Saudi's Shias is no different from those stone age time besides sitting on a big gold deposit. Its culture is really no different to those in barbaric era.

Iran’s Sunnis, Saudi’s Shias; a Fair Comparison

Note: Some national media sources have been publishing articles to compare the situation of both Sunni community of Iran and Shiite community of Saudi Arabia. These elements claim that Sunni community in Iran has more civil rights and liberties than Shiites in Saudi. Dear readers, the following article is a brief comparison of the two communities, the situation is being presented, you can analyze the matter from a different side. We only provide some credible information; final judgment is up to you.
Republic & Kingdom:
“Republic” and “Kingdom” are two well-known types of governing around the world. In republican states, masses elect their rulers, policy makers and chiefs of states; in other words, people, regardless to difference of language, skin color, religion and race independently cost their votes and give approval to leaders, eventually those who get vote of majority have right to hold the government.

"Islamic Republic":
When the title “republic” appears with affix of “Islamic”, it means that the rules of that state are based on Islam. The Islamic laws and jurisprudence urge on taking care of the civil and religious rights of minorities, it prohibits from injustice actions.

On the other hand, “kingdom” system of governing means rule of royal family on a country, they hold key posts and make mostly the interior and foreign policies.

The Islamic Republic of Iran came into existence after a long nation-wide protest and struggle which succeeded to defeat the ex-kingdom regime of Iran, the world saw the victory of a public revolution in February 1979 in Iran. The Iranian nation, Shiites and Sunnis, backed the anti-Shah movement due to its motto “Islamic Republic”.

In short words, key posts are distributed in kingdom system by SELECTION and in democratic and republican regimes by ELECTIONS.

After knowing these details, it looks very amazing to compare “Islamic Republic” of Iran with the “Kingdom of Saudi Arabia”. It astonishes more to analyze the situation of Iran’s Sunnis in the light of Saudi’s Shiites.

Jobs distribution in Iran & Saudi:
It must be kept in mind that in the KSA, only high offices and important appointments are under the control of royal family, king Abdul Aziz; while for lower posts nationality is the only required point not sect like Shia and Sunni. As Saudi Shiites have been working in various departments side by side of their Sunni country-fellows. They can get jobs in armed forces and security services without any obstacles; even till recent time, the chief of police in Medina Munawwarah was a Shiite citizen. The Saudi ambassador in the Iranian capital, Tehran and Saudi Consul in Mashhad, the second largest Iranian city, were Saudi Shiites.

Besides, there are five Shia members in “Selective Chamber” or Consultative Council of Saudi Arabia among 150 members.

Unlike Saudi Arabia, Sunni citizens are questioned about their sect and school of thought in each step when they apply for a job. Important offices are ‘Prohibited Tree’ for Sunnis in Iran, rather the rulers have been neglecting Sunni citizens at distribution of low and small posts. While they claim the ruling system is based on ‘democracy’ and ‘republic’.

The Sunni community of Iran is the second largest majority of Iran. The community played an important and active role to bring revolution against the Shah’s regime along with the rest of public. After victory, Sunnis remained favoring the new regime, warm welcome of officials in Sunni-majority areas is an evidence of this continuous support. Despite all of this, since the victory of the Revolution none of Sunnis has been appointed as a minister, vice minister, ambassador or member of any Iranian embassy, vice president or governor of any province even with 90% Sunni population. In armed offices Sunnis are present only as common soldiers and constable not more.

Take the example of Sunni-majority province, Sistan Baluchistan where Sunnis take 5% of key offices out of one hundred high offices. There is no a single Sunni member in the Provincial Security Council. From 170 members of Provincial Internal Council just 13 are Sunnis. As well as, there is no any Sunni member in the Upper Council (Shura Negahban) and other Supreme departments.

“Are you a Shiite or Sunni?” this question is in front of oppressed citizens in most of the official departments even in some hospitals this question is asked from patients.

Problems in religious affairs:
It was the case in distribution of posts; Sunni citizens have been suffering from discriminative official treatment in their religious affairs as well. Ban on the constitutional civil and religious rights, interference in the religious and educational matters of Sunnis, prohibition of building a mosque for more than one million Sunni citizens in Tehran, forbiddance of Sunnis to offer Eid and Jum’ah prayers in mega cities as well as offering five-time prayers in congregation in some other cities are the matters which have made the Sunni community anxious.

On the other hand, Shiite citizens of Saudi Arabia have a grand mosque in Riadh where they establish Friday prayers. In all areas and cities where they live, they have separate worship places. Even Shias have a “Husainiah” (Imam Bargah) in Medina Munawwarah which was inaugurated by ex-president of Iran, Akbar Hashemi Rafsanjani.

Apart of this, unlike Saudi Shiites, most of the Iranian Sunnis live in border areas and they are so weak and vulnerable economically. Where Saudi Shias are strong in this regard and own big trade companies, they do not face discriminative acts in this field.

If somebody takes out the glass of partiality and prejudice from his eyes, he will judge that Shias of the KINGDOM of Saudi Arabia are in quite better condition than Sunnis of the ISLAMIC REPUBLIC of Iran.

It is better for pro-regime elements to compare the conditions of Iran’s Sunnis to Shia minorities of a democratic/republic state if they are eager to do so. It seems more logical to look at the situations of Shia minorities of Iran’s neighbors, Afghanistan and Pakistan.

Shias in Pakistan and Afghanistan:
An eye-reach shows that Shias enjoy an absolute freedom in these two countries; as vice president, some governors and ministers are Shiite in Afghanistan. The president of Pakistan belongs to Shia community, there are some other important public figures belong to Shia community in Pakistan even in Army and intelligence services. Religiously, Shias enjoy full freedom, as there are many Shiite worship places in Kabul and Islamabad and wherever they live from small to big cities.

Finally, the Iranian rulers and their defenders should try to be ideal for other states in dealing with religious and ethnic minorities instead of comparing minorities. They should prove that “Islamic Republic of Iran” believes in justice and equality among different sects and races.

source: SunniOnline.us
The Official Website of the Sunni Community in Iran - Iran

i am expecting fair and unbiased discussion and would appreciate the inputs of respected Iranian members

i am expecting fair and unbiased discussion and would appreciate the inputs of respected Iranian members. thanx a lot

 

[Al Bhatti]

And when i start a thread on 04-21-2012 it is ignored

http://www.defence.pk/forums/world-affairs/174613-iran-s-sunnis-saudi-s-shias-fair-comparison.html

 

[explorer9]

And when i start a thread on 04-21-2012 it is ignored

http://www.defence.pk/forums/world-affairs/174613-iran-s-sunnis-saudi-s-shias-fair-comparison.html

Dear brother, the only thing that matters is fair and unbiased discussion!!!!

Exactly bro, I suggest to people here to think on this verse:
'Say, "O People of the Scripture, come to a word that is equitable between us and you - that we will not worship except Allah and not associate anything with Him and not take one another as lords instead of Allah. ..."' --Quran 3:64 (This was address to Christans and Jews!)
Just dont highlight the differences (even between Muslims and Christans/Jews)

i think this is not the highlighting the difference and purely how minorities are being treated in the respective countries because we do not hear much about Iranian state treatment of its Sunnis yet we have lot of news about Saudi treatment of its own shias...

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

Have this guy heard anything about Parachinar's Shias??

no need for you to worry about us, Parachinar is our turf from father's side....village Alamsher


actually, i'm glad you brought the subject up, because yes it has seen ocassional breakouts of sectarian violence - mostly fuelled by anti-state elements like TTP and the sectarian groups.....but Iran has also tried expanding Hezbollah to parts of Kurram Agency areas. Nowdays you dont see it as much, but during early years of zardari days Iranians were definitely sending money for forming militant outfits of its own (i was seeing facebook groups and youtube videos of 'Parachinar Hezbollah' with pictures of Iranian Mullahs and the Hezbollah flags, etc.)

me personally, im against any foreign intervention and meddling going on in Pakistan.....this neighbourhood sees lots of vested interests and agendas. No Islamic seminaries should be receiving outside support. Alms for the poor or Hajj subsidies is fine, but i dont believe foreing countries should be supporting madrassas in Pakistan which tend to either promote austere/radical interpretations. That isn't the Islam Pakistan is about.


anywhow, things are okay in Parachinar nowdays. Some parts of Lower Kurram are having COIN ops. Kurram has often been a transit points between South Waz. and Orazkai (where also, things are more normal despite some occasional outbrakes of violence)

meanwhile, it's important that all the tribes are at peace with one another and in Kurram there's largely peace right now - i would say majority of the people are fed up of this militancy and many are helping the local security forces......some have suffered enormously, their families threated - because they are cooperating with government. Noble causes they had.


the TTP as well as the other breakaway factions and jihadi outfits (some of which are killing eachother), sectarian groups, drug smugglers (some that are crossing illegally inside) -- all will be handled in good time.

--- and our forces are CAPABLE of it

 

[explorer9]

This is what I would like to concentrate on. Why is it that there has been little issue for decades in Pakistan when we have a good split. Only in recent decades we have a few issues. In any event no one can accuse Pakistan of a state conspiracy against either when we have a govt which has a mixture of Shias and Sunnis

I don not think the said article mentioned any thing about Iranian majority shia population discriminating the Sunni population rather it is depicting the state's policies based on discriminating its Sunni minority.

I would ask all Muslims to pay heed to what Abu said here. Note the OP was put here by an Indian. We must get past this and look at each other as Muslims and forbid this partisanship that is encouraged by enemies of all Muslim. There is much that binds us together and differences are relatively small

My respected friend kindly do not see this article from that spectacle, i raisied the issue to be discussed in a fair and transparent manner and people must know what is going on & you will get a wonderful critically acclaimed article on state of Indian minorities after 65 years of independence in a days to come .

 

[seekers]

Yep this is pretty much the truth. At anytime I could have brought the issue of oppressed Sunnis in Iran but I never did that. This isn't the same for Iranians.

In my college one of my friends is Shia but don't give it much thought mostly just tease him about it every once and a while jokingly but that's it. In Iran they are not even allowed to have Sunni mosques. In Saudi Arabia Shia mosques are built with government money even.

But here people tend to look with Iranian glasses and idealize Iran as their lord and saviour.

Is this true or not but fact is that saudis has demolished the Shrine of Ahlebayt(A.S) in Jannat ul Baqqeh. Not any one allow to get close to Fence of Prophet SAWW Shrine in Madina. saudi khadam has snatched my tasbeeh when i touch it with Zareh Mubarik of RASOOL ALLAH SAWW.
Do anyone know that Shias has not allowed or given any single mosque among dozens of mosque in DHA Lahore.One of the mosque in phase 5 had been allocated to shia by core commander Gen.Shafaat but DHA has refused to hand over after completion (after retirement of Core commander). This mosque has been closed for last 3 year by court stay.

 

[Al Bhatti]

Is this true or not but fact is that saudis has demolished the Shrine of Ahlebayt(A.S) in Jannat ul Baqqeh. Not any one allow to get close to Fence of Prophet SAWW Shrine in Madina. saudi khadam has snatched my tasbeeh when i touch it with Zareh Mubarik of RASOOL ALLAH SAWW.
Do anyone know that Shias has not allowed or given any single mosque among dozens of mosque in DHA Lahore.One of the mosque in phase 5 had been allocated to shia by core commander Gen.Shafaat but DHA has refused to hand over after completion (after retirement of Core commander). This mosque has been closed for last 3 year by court stay.

There is no place for shrine concept in Islam.

If there was, then:

Why didn't the prophet tell to make shrines/tombs of the prophets before him?

Why didn't the companions of the prophet build shrine of the Prophet?

Why didn't the companions of the companions of the prophet build shrines for the companions of the prophet?

Why don't we see the shrine / tomb of the founder of the Al Saud State (father of the Al Saud State/Kingdom) just like the tomb of the father of Pakistan?

 

[explorer9]

after having discussion on the subject i came to know that Shias are having their own mosque in Riyadh, Islamabad & Kabul then why Sunnis are not allowed to have their own Mosque ( Sunni pryer leader) in Tehran. One of my Iranian friend told me that former president Khatami has promised to build a Sunni Mosque in Tehran but Khameni Vetoed it down.

 

[Al Bhatti]

The Sunnis in Tehran generally pray their ei'd prayers in the compound of the Saudi and Pakistani Embassy.