Iran Kowsar Jet Surprise (production line)

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

Kowsar was meant to be a combat trainer for pilots right? Not something we'd be seeing produced in large numbers?

The F-5E proved to be a successful combat aircraft for U.S. allies, but had no combat service with the U.S. Air Force (though the F-5A with modifications referred to as F-5C was flown by the U.S. in Vietnam). The F-5E evolved into the single-engine F-5G, which was rebranded the F-20 Tigershark. It lost out on export sales to the F-16 in the 1980s


A modernized F5 is good as any 4th Generation craft


Iran has modern Avionics & Radar on this platform

The only reason by F5 lost orders were due to under par Missiles low range , however Iran makes it's owns Air to Air Missiles so they should be able to arm the planes with tools needed for long range engagement

 

[VEVAK]

The F-5E proved to be a successful combat aircraft for U.S. allies, but had no combat service with the U.S. Air Force (though the F-5A with modifications referred to as F-5C was flown by the U.S. in Vietnam). The F-5E evolved into the single-engine F-5G, which was rebranded the F-20 Tigershark. It lost out on export sales to the F-16 in the 1980s


A modernized F5 is good as any 4th Generation craft


Iran has modern Avionics & Radar on this platform

The only reason by F5 lost orders were due to under par Missiles low range , however Iran makes it's owns Air to Air Missiles so they should be able to arm the planes with tools needed for long range engagement

F-16 hands down ranks well below fighters like the French Rafael, Typhoon, MiG-29, MiG-35, Su-27, Su-30, F-15...
And Iran's Kosar fighter platform compared to the F-16's lack both payload capacity, speed, range & Air refueling capability.

But to be used as a close air support fighter for ~100km outside Iran's Air Space on land and ~300km at sea if produced in sufficient numbers it will overall be a far superior fighter for Iran than an imported F-16 because Iran can simply produce more for the cost of an imported F-16 and build it's own weapon at fraction of the cost

But in a country like Iran due to it's size we would have required ~160 F-16 (A squadron of 8 distributed across 20 bases spread out across Iran that's bases spaced evenly approximately ~300-400km from each other) for a CAS fighter like the Kosar to replace an F-16 we would need at the very least 2 times as many Kosar CAS fighters and that would be a fleet of at least 320 Kosar's just to fill the role of 160 CAS F-16's and Iran could build them for a lot cheaper than what 160 F-16 would cost

An F-16 if purchased today would cost Iran at least $40 Million USD just for the Aircraft and in any fighter deal Iran would easily end up paying on average as much as $80 Million USD or more for each aircraft for spare parts, maintenance & upkeep equipment, Weapons & pods, a few standard upgrades, pilot gear, training equipment.....Where as with the Kosar Iran could easily make as many as 2 or maybe even up to 3 Kosar with it's own specialized weapons with unknown ranges that are produced in far greater numbers at a fraction of the cost

So at the end of the day it's the combination of price and being able to produce your own specialized weapons, parts and upgrades that makes the Kosar a superior CAS platform for Iran when compared to imported CAS fighters like the F-16

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

Small step .... ain't saying Tigershark Kausar is cure to every thing but it is a move in correct direction for Iran

Better than no offence

1. Power: Two compact, high thrust-to-weight ratio General Electric J85 turbojet engines
2. Supersonic: Its maximum speed is Mach 1.6, or 1,060 mph
3. Range: The Tiger’s range was 870 mi but had a combat radius of 198 miles when carrying a maximum payload
4. Ceiling: The F-5 ceiling is 51,800 ft with a rate of climb of 34,400 ft/min
5. Armament: The F-5 has two 20mm cannons, carries two AIM-9 Sidewinders on the wingtips, and possesses five hardpoints to carry up to 7000 lbs of ordnance or fuel.

We are looking at 1976's tech being massed produced. We will have to see what kind of Production figures Iran can attain or what Missiles package are part of the craft

Even a F5 is a handfull

F-5 VS F-5

Video shows clearly ...... F-5 can hold it's own against any plane it's own size and bigger
A mass produced F-5 will cause massive problems for an adversary

And it is only a matter of time before Iran unveiled it's Next generation Air to Air Missile options with extended ranges

 

[Hack-Hook]

Small step .... ain't saying Tigershark Kausar is cure to every thing but it is a move in correct direction for Iran

well let be honest two Owj engine combined on this plan can hardly provide 1/3rd of power of General Electric F404-GE-100 inside F-20

 

[mohsen]

well let be honest two Owj engine combined on this plan can hardly provide 1/3rd of power of General Electric F404-GE-100 inside F-20

And who said the development doesn't include the engine?!

 

[Hack-Hook]

And who said the development doesn't include the engine?!

its certain the development will include the engine , but we have shown so many aircraft project in recent years that somebody wonder will we use the new engine development in this aircraft or we use it in those . and after all at least the ones in the photo will have the old engine which at best is suitable for training and light attack missions so again somebody may say why mass produce an aircraft if the first 12 will have weak engine and then the rest next year will have more powerful engine ,wont this make trouble for maintaining the fleet
and by the way don't forget F-5 is supersonic , but when they announced kowsar they said its a subsonic airplane so you think , they used Owj engine without afterburner and again it point to a trainer than fighter ,that's why i say right now comparing it with F-20 is not good comparison,and they built it to answer air-force needs for training new generation of pilots when the new airplanes become available.

 

[mohsen]

its certain the development will include the engine , but we have shown so many aircraft project in recent years that somebody wonder will we use the new engine development in this aircraft or we use it in those . and after all at least the ones in the photo will have the old engine which at best is suitable for training and light attack missions so again somebody may say why mass produce an aircraft if the first 12 will have weak engine and then the rest next year will have more powerful engine ,wont this make trouble for maintaining the fleet
and by the way don't forget F-5 is supersonic , but when they announced kowsar they said its a subsonic airplane so you think , they used Owj engine without afterburner and again it point to a trainer than fighter ,that's why i say right now comparing it with F-20 is not good comparison,and they built it to answer air-force needs for training new generation of pilots when the new airplanes become available.

I only know three Iranian platforms, Kowsar, kowsar-88 and Qaher.
from the beginning, Kowsar was introduced as supersonic, you are mistaking Kowsar with Kowsar-88.
Kowsar88 has a turbofan engine, so it's engine isn't owj.

there will be no trouble for maintenance, cause we are already using a large number of the same (similar) engine.

 

[Hack-Hook]

I only know three Iranian platforms, Kowsar, kowsar-88 and Qaher.
from the beginning, Kowsar was introduced as supersonic, you are mistaking Kowsar with Kowsar-88.
Kowsar88 has a turbofan engine, so it's engine isn't owj.

there will be no trouble for maintenance, cause we are already using a large number of the same (similar) engine.

That's one of the problem with our air-force , their resources are limited and they must distribute it on maintaining so many platform , so they have nearly nothing on developing newer gadgets.
Kowsar, then kowsar-88 and Qaher are what you mentioned , Let put all Azaraksh and Saeqeh development in one category with Kowsar and say they are actually one project . and let put one aside for Qaher ,but here we have kowsar-88 that when it come to capabilities you can put in the same class as Kowsar and it don't seem to offer other possibilities than Kowsar. but is certainly a different design and you ask yourself why pursue two different design for the same roles ,it only increase maintenance cost .
and here I won't talk about Qaher as I really don't knew about the capabilities of the end product , but if they don't change the overall design then we have a subsonic ,low RCS aircraft with good maneuverability until , you put weapon outside its body .
now they were somethimes ago were talking about Simorgh trainer ,and then HESA sometimes ago had another trainer called Dorna and again another trainer called Parastoo (propeller plane)and I recall when they were talking about Saeqeh , they also were talking about another heavy fighter jet

 

[OldTwilight]

Small step .... ain't saying Tigershark Kausar is cure to every thing but it is a move in correct direction for Iran

Better than no offence

1. Power: Two compact, high thrust-to-weight ratio General Electric J85 turbojet engines
2. Supersonic: Its maximum speed is Mach 1.6, or 1,060 mph
3. Range: The Tiger’s range was 870 mi but had a combat radius of 198 miles when carrying a maximum payload
4. Ceiling: The F-5 ceiling is 51,800 ft with a rate of climb of 34,400 ft/min
5. Armament: The F-5 has two 20mm cannons, carries two AIM-9 Sidewinders on the wingtips, and possesses five hardpoints to carry up to 7000 lbs of ordnance or fuel.

We are looking at 1976's tech being massed produced. We will have to see what kind of Production figures Iran can attain or what Missiles package are part of the craft

Even a F5 is a handfull

F-5 VS F-5

Video shows clearly ...... F-5 can hold it's own against any plane it's own size and bigger
A mass produced F-5 will cause massive problems for an adversary

And it is only a matter of time before Iran unveiled it's Next generation Air to Air Missile options with extended ranges

we were supposed to buy 250 F18L in Shah era before 1990 ....

180 F14 (which should modernized constantly )
300 F16 ( which USA gave them to Israel )
250 F18L .....

 

[Maarkhoor]

The F-5E proved to be a successful combat aircraft for U.S. allies, but had no combat service with the U.S. Air Force (though the F-5A with modifications referred to as F-5C was flown by the U.S. in Vietnam). The F-5E evolved into the single-engine F-5G, which was rebranded the F-20 Tigershark. It lost out on export sales to the F-16 in the 1980s


A modernized F5 is good as any 4th Generation craft


Iran has modern Avionics & Radar on this platform

The only reason by F5 lost orders were due to under par Missiles low range , however Iran makes it's owns Air to Air Missiles so they should be able to arm the planes with tools needed for long range engagement

I have serious doubt over Iran's tech regarding electronics and chip making, what exactly they are doing is buying commercial civilian electronic products and use them in different projects....

Iranian crashed drone shows it was build using nikkon camera....

 

[raptor22]

YOU Don't know what your talking about!

What does research have to do with production? Su-30's and MiG's also require large amount of Titanium and since Iran actually has relations with Russia the reverse engineering of any Russian Fighter would not be publicized nor even made public without Russian approval before starting such a project....

If you understood anything about fighters you would of understood that Iran would NOT have been able to keep a single F-14 flying after 40 years of sanctions and some 20 years since the U.S. shredded it's F-14 without Iran being able to manufacture large number of it's parts and components including parts of the engines and Airframes
but still doesn't mean Iran was capable of manufacture something like an F-14 Titanium Bulkhead

And YES Titanium is a MAJOR factor for Iran take a look

https://www.un.org/press/en/2015/sc12163.doc.htm

As for Iranian Titanium production facility Iran had plans to start it's 1st Titanium production facility in mid 2017 and that's only for producing titanium dioxide concentrate and titanium dioxide slag and there would still need to be investment in new facilities for the production of higher grade Ti composite alloy used in manufacturing fighter Airframe that required 40,000 lb of Ti for their Air Frame and over 14,000lb of Titanium for both of their engines
https://www.presstv.com/Detail/2016/09/17/485086/Iran-minerals-titanium-production-investment


So yea Titanium was a major Hurdle for Iran that Iran has only recently been trying to address and Sanctions prohibit the sale of Ti to Iran!

As for Iran's engineering pol Iran has been THE FASTEST GROWING country in Science and Technology in the past 30 years! FEEL FREE to GOOGLE IT!
Maybe your confusing Iran with your own country!

That's interesting, I didn't know that even Titanium was sanctioned too ... you know why? and also did Iran start Titanium production in 2017 just 'cause sanctions\the UNSC resolutions were removed? or 'cause of technological problems?

 

[VEVAK]

Small step .... ain't saying Tigershark Kausar is cure to every thing but it is a move in correct direction for Iran

Better than no offence

1. Power: Two compact, high thrust-to-weight ratio General Electric J85 turbojet engines
2. Supersonic: Its maximum speed is Mach 1.6, or 1,060 mph
3. Range: The Tiger’s range was 870 mi but had a combat radius of 198 miles when carrying a maximum payload
4. Ceiling: The F-5 ceiling is 51,800 ft with a rate of climb of 34,400 ft/min
5. Armament: The F-5 has two 20mm cannons, carries two AIM-9 Sidewinders on the wingtips, and possesses five hardpoints to carry up to 7000 lbs of ordnance or fuel.

We are looking at 1976's tech being massed produced. We will have to see what kind of Production figures Iran can attain or what Missiles package are part of the craft

Even a F5 is a handfull

F-5 VS F-5

Video shows clearly ...... F-5 can hold it's own against any plane it's own size and bigger
A mass produced F-5 will cause massive problems for an adversary

And it is only a matter of time before Iran unveiled it's Next generation Air to Air Missile options with extended ranges

Nice post! although those changes in design also came with changes in engine and powerplant

Moving the wings above the intakes for them had more to do with being able to takeoff and land on carries
with larger number of weapons

Where as today internal weapon bays and thrust vectoring change that need
Here is one of the Northrop's 6th gen designs


You can simply make up for reduced airflow during high angle turns with small inlets and moving surfaces underneath the aircraft for they are a requirement for all fighters regardless of where the intakes are located....



Although Iran's Kosar platform may not be the best platform in the world but THE MOST IMPRESSIVE thing Iran has done with that project is they have built their own Ejection Seat, Sensors, electronics & avionics and these are technologies that future Iranian fighter platforms will adapt

Iran's built it's own digitized mapping and Internal Navigation system which will be used in all future Iranian fighters and is superior and far more secure than an imported GPS system on a military platform, the entire cockpit and it's avionics has gone from electro mechanical to digital again a tech that will be used in future Iranian fighters, Iran's built it's own APU and has built the software to give a doppler radar SAR & imaging capability which brings Iran one step closer to a domestically produced PESA radar for it's fighters, Iran has clearly developed it's own HUD that takes in and displays data from a new Iranian built weapons systems that does more sophisticated ballistic calculation....

And all these achievements means a lot of the smaller components required for a more advanced fighter have already been developed and addressed and it would be absurd to think Iran would stop its self from upgrading the Airframe and powerplant in time.....

But this current platform is far from sufficient and yes F-5's are very maneuverable BUT when it comes to Speed, Payload, Range & Air Refueling they fall well short and aside from being used as a CAS fighter the platform is most defiantly not something Iran can remain satisfied with and I would say it's doubtful that Iran put so much effort into the subsystems to simply remain satisfied with the Kosar and stop it's self from developing an Interceptor/Strike aircraft to fully complete all the needs of it's Airforce when it comes to fighters.

 

[Hack-Hook]

Iranian crashed drone shows it was build using nikkon camera

What ever but in that thread I have proven to our Israeli friends that the crashed drone actually was a Hermes 450 and had nothing to do with Shahed 129.

Even this Israeli dronelooks more like that crashed drone than any Iranian drone

 

[VEVAK]

I have serious doubt over Iran's tech regarding electronics and chip making, what exactly they are doing is buying commercial civilian electronic products and use them in different projects....

Iranian crashed drone shows it was build using nikkon camera....

Iran doesn't produce a processor worth using in it's military equipment! And so what if a camera or a processor is imported???? Just because Iran need's a few thousand cameras or processor for it's military on a yearly bases doesn't mean Iran has to start producing camera's and even if we do it doesn't mean the tech will be sufficient for military use compared to imported Cam's from countries that have been in the business of building cam's and processor for nearly half a century! And until our own tech gets to a point where using an Iranian tech wouldn't make a difference then the MOST logical thing to do is to use an imported one!

That's interesting, I didn't know that even Titanium was sanctioned too ... you know why? and also did Iran start Titanium production in 2017 just 'cause sanctions\the UNSC resolutions were removed? or 'cause of technological problems?

More like foreign pressure and lack of priority and funding for it for it requires a lot of money to get it going.....
In terms of technology If you can produce Aluminum and have the technology to build centrifuges for Uranium enrichment then technologically you would have NO problem producing Ti and Fact is Iran has produced Ti on a small scale for well over a decade now but to be able to produce fighters it needs to be produced at an industrial scale and you need massive Ti alloy composite block even for a proper R&D program....

People don't realize that when your sanctioned and something as simple as Ti alloy has to be smuggled into Iran how severely that effects a countries fighter program and the ability to build better engines and airframes
even for a proper R&D program that goes beyond simple design....

For Iran without being able to produce Ti alloy composites on an industrial scale you can not really move towards producing a capable Airframe or engine and Ti production is one of the most vital infrastructures that would be needed to have a capable fighter program. And that's something most countries can simply import for R&D while we have to produce our own which take time and money and lots of it!

 

[Hack-Hook]

Iran doesn't produce a processor worth using in it's military equipment! And so what if a camera or a processor is imported???? Just because Iran need's a few thousand cameras or processor for it's military on a yearly bases doesn't mean Iran has to start producing camera's and even if we do it doesn't mean the tech will be sufficient for military use compared to imported Cam's from countries that have been in the business of building cam's and processor for nearly half a century! And until our own tech gets to a point where using an Iranian tech wouldn't make a difference then the MOST logical thing to do is to use an imported one!

Then what are these
http://www.mindexcenter.ir/taxonomy/term/10/more