Iran is developing system similar to S-300

[longbrained]

They probably had just developed it and hadn't gotten around to mounting it on its final platform yet. I expect it'll be able to fold into a container like their VHF radar:

I dont understand why Iranians are too much into container and truck trailers. They have an advanced automobile industry, why they dont develop something like Russian mobile platforms for Radars. They just mount everything on trucks and trailers. Why not something like this:

---------- Post added at 11:48 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:46 PM ----------

This should give Iranians a sence of security and protection. Im surprised that the scientists developing this didnt get a visit from Mossad wanting a cup of tea with them!

I hear one of the guys recently killed was actually an electronic engineer. Now it is clear what happened.

 

[Birbal]

I think the advantage of container trucks is that they are indistinguishable from ordinary trucks. Sort of like the Club-K:

 

[longbrained]

I think the advantage of container trucks is that they are indistinguishable from ordinary trucks. Sort of like the Club-K:

It is sooooo coooool. War by deception. It could not get any better. When warring with a superior enemy this can be real fun. Thanks for posting it.

 

[longbrained]

I hope Iranian Bavar-373 is going to be closer to this:

---------- Post added at 02:46 AM ---------- Previous post was at 02:44 AM ----------

And that Iranian radar can be installed on some trailer like this Ukrainian radar:

 

[longbrained]

Another important consideration for Iran's Bavar-373 is that it should have also some anti-ballistic missile capability in addition to anti-aircraft, anti-cruise missile and anti drone capability. The reason for that is simple. US can launch an intermediate range missile to hit the Iranian system and disable it. Though US has intercontinental ballistic missiles but it will never launch them against Iran, since it might cause a miscalculation on part of Russians due to close geography of Iran with Russia and risk World War 3. So any system must also be able to engage ballistic missiles with a range of 3000 km too.

 

[Thomas]

The jealousy against Iran is nothing new. While Saudi Arabia had to beg Americans for defense against Saddam, Iran did it all alone. While "they" used to say that Iran can not build a screw, Iran came up with ballistic missiles. While they said, Iran is under sanctions and can not build solid fuel Ballistic missiles, Iran came up with Sejjil. Then they said, Iran can not make nuclear fuel. Iran made nuclear fuel. They ridiculed Iran's claim of intention putting a satellite in orbit. Iran did just that. They said in 2010 summer that Iran's economy will collapse in less than a year due to gasoline shortages and subsidy reform but Iran's economy actually grew while western economies are going to recession. Now they are ridiculing Iran for their intention to build a completely home grown air defense system which by the way is no more difficult technologically than putting up a satellite. Let them ridicule. Iran will show them in a few years. Not only that but this item is going to be hot selling equipment on international markets since alot of countries love to buy a trusted system against future possibility of attack by US/NATO. Since most of the equipment on current market are either banned from sale or are compromised, Iranian system is going to be bought by independent countries which want to bolster their capability. Iran can make billions selling such a system.

Give credit to where it's due. Iran owes thier ballistic missile technology to the Chinese and North Koreans.

 

[longbrained]

Iran owes thier ballistic missile technology to the Chinese and North Koreans.

And US owes its ballistic missile program to Nazi and Germans.

 

[Thomas]

And US owes its ballistic missile program to Nazi and Germans.

More to the Germans, German scientists were part of the nazi party mainly becuase it was required of them. not becuase they believed in it's ideology.

 

[longbrained]

More to the Germans, German scientists were part of the nazi party mainly becuase it was required of them. not becuase they believed in it's ideology.

Not really. Many of them were running concentration camps using slave labor for their factories. Alot of them would have been hanged in Nuremberg if not for their skills which were needed in US since Americans were so dumb that they could not figure out rocket technology. Just like all other technologies in US which were made by non-Americans. Germans stayed and designed US rockets right upto the pinnacle of Saturn rockets which were the biggest and took America to moon. Thanks to German engineers like Braun who was the chief engineer of the US rocket program. When these Germans grew old and died, the US rocket technology also went bust. Since that time not much has been added by US to that technology. Such a shame. In contrast Soviets took fewer German scientists with them but were quick to learn the rocket technology and were the first in space. Even today they are light years ahead of US in this regard. Infact US today has to go to Russia to buy rocket engine technology for their boosters and futuristic rockets; like R-171. By comparison Iran has done well. Under sanctions and having just access to old North Korean technology of Russian origin 1950's, Iran improved and launched satellites a feat yet to be accomplished by North Koreans and their brothers in South Korea.

Now United States should stand up and say: Heil Hitler and then sit down and again rise up and say: Comrade Stalin!

 

[Thomas]

Not really. Many of them were running concentration camps using slave labor for their factories. Alot of them would have been hanged in Nuremberg if not for their skills which were needed in US since Americans were so dumb that they could not figure out rocket technology. Just like all other technologies in US which were made by non-Americans. Germans stayed and designed US rockets right upto the pinnacle of Saturn rockets which were the biggest and took America to moon. Thanks to German engineers like Braun who was the chief engineer of the US rocket program. When these Germans grew old and died, the US rocket technology also went bust. Since that time not much has been added by US to that technology. Such a shame. In contrast Soviets took fewer German scientists with them but were quick to learn the rocket technology and were the first in space. Even today they are light years ahead of US in this regard. Infact US today has to go to Russia to buy rocket engine technology for their boosters and futuristic rockets; like R-171. By comparison Iran has done well. Under sanctions and having just access to old North Korean technology of Russian origin 1950's, Iran improved and launched satellites a feat yet to be accomplished by North Koreans and their brothers in South Korea.

Now United States should stand up and say: Heil Hitler and then sit down and again rise up and say: Comrade Stalin!

Actually the U.S. had a Ballistic missile program prior to the end of WWII. The WAC Corporal missile entered service in 1944. It just was never used in the war. the corporal missile line would later become the first missiles designed to carry a nuke warhead. as far as acomplishments after the war. it wasn't how many scientists each side had that mattered more. But the political will that controled the purse strings and red tape. the russians had a more streamlined approach with approving and funding projects they deemed a national priority. The U.S. side had to justify everything to a congress wanting to scale down. Sputnik was the wake up call that made the U.S. space program a national priority. After that the U.S. leap froged the Russians culminating in the first man on the moon and later on with the space shuttle. As for the military rockets, US rockets were far more accurate then Russian. Which is why the Russians had to rely more on bigger megaton bombs to compensate.

Currently there is a gap in new US rockets. Future rockets will be designed and produced by private companies which is as it should be.

 

[Thomas]

Not really. Many of them were running concentration camps using slave labor for their factories.

thats not true! only one scientist Arthur L. Rudolph is known to have been involved with the decision to use slave labor camps. the vast majority of the rocket scientists though were not harcore Nazis.

 

[longbrained]

@ Thomas,

Stop lying. Both Corporal and WAC Corporal missiles were made after United States had extensive access to Nazi technology. The missile technology developed under direct supervision of Hitler himself, with scientists who used to work for him, swore allegiance to him and even offered him missiles as weapons. Even Braun used slave labors. You can use propaganda to ease the pain now but the history will not change. US rockets are never more accurate than Russians. That was just a cold war propaganda by US media. Russian AA and SA missiles were and are ahead of US technology. US has no equivalent for S-400 neither it has any equivalent for Bulava missiles. It was Nazi Germans who run US rocket program. After Nazi engineers died, US has not done much. The jewel of US space program today, Atlas V rocket runs on Russian engines. The private companies you were talking about are nothing more but US government front companies to go and buy Russian technology, parts and engines. That is the truth. Now you can jump up and down and cry but it will not change the truth. US never had any indigenous rocket science. All German and Russian tech in US rockets make them fly. Bravo to Iran to have been able to do it under sanctions.

After the Nazi scientists were taken to USSR/ USA, Germany could not build anything of substance and grandiose in rocketry. Actually to this day, Europeans have problems with their rockets and space program despite their heavy access and reliance on Russian and US (Nazi) technologies. It proves it was Nazi and not Germans whom US should thank. As I said, Americans should raise and say Heil Hitler, Comrade Stalin.

 

[gambit]

@ Thomas,

Stop lying. Both Corporal and WAC Corporal missiles were made after United States had extensive access to Nazi technology. The missile technology developed under direct supervision of Hitler himself, with scientists who used to work for him, swore allegiance to him and even offered him missiles as weapons. Even Braun used slave labors. You can use propaganda to ease the pain now but the history will not change. US rockets are never more accurate than Russians. That was just a cold war propaganda by US media. Russian AA and SA missiles were and are ahead of US technology. US has no equivalent for S-400 neither it has any equivalent for Bulava missiles. It was Nazi Germans who run US rocket program. After Nazi engineers died, US has not done much. The jewel of US space program today, Atlas V rocket runs on Russian engines. The private companies you were talking about are nothing more but US government front companies to go and buy Russian technology, parts and engines. That is the truth. Now you can jump up and down and cry but it will not change the truth. US never had any indigenous rocket science. All German and Russian tech in US rockets make them fly. Bravo to Iran to have been able to do it under sanctions.

After the Nazi scientists were taken to USSR/ USA, Germany could not build anything of substance and grandiose in rocketry. Actually to this day, Europeans have problems with their rockets and space program despite their heavy access and reliance on Russian and US (Nazi) technologies. It proves it was Nazi and not Germans whom US should thank. As I said, Americans should raise and say Heil Hitler, Comrade Stalin.

I take it you have never heard of Robert Goddard?

How regressive are you willing to be? Your argument tells me that you have never worked in an R/D and/or manufacturing job. The V-2 of Nazi Germany is nothing compared to the Saturn V and no one who has ever worked in an R/D and/or manufacturing job will argue that without the V-2, the Saturn V will never exist.

 

[gambit]

Give credit to where it's due. Iran owes thier ballistic missile technology to the Chinese and North Koreans.

And US owes its ballistic missile program to Nazi and Germans.

Utter garbage. And here is why...

- Dependency
- Time

The question of dependency is about how much technology acquisition and adoption by one party from another.

NASA - Dr. Robert H. Goddard, American Rocketry Pioneer

Goddard’s greatest engineering contributions were made during his work in the 1920s and 1930s. He received a total of $10,000 from the Smithsonian by 1927, and through the personal efforts of Charles A. Lindbergh, he subsequently received financial support from the Daniel and Florence Guggenheim Foundation. Progress on all of his work was published in “Liquid Propellant Rocket Development,” published by the Smithsonian in 1936.

Goddard’s work largely anticipated in technical detail the later German V-2 missiles, including gyroscopic control, steering by means of vanes in the jet stream of the rocket motor, gimbal-steering, power-driven fuel pumps and other devices. His rocket flight in 1929 carried the first scientific payload, a barometer, and a camera. Goddard developed and demonstrated the basic idea of the “bazooka” two days before the Armistice in 1918 at the Aberdeen Proving Ground in Maryland. His launching platform was a music rack. In World War II, Goddard again offered his services and was assigned by the U.S. Navy to the development of practical jet assisted takeoff and liquid propellant rocket motors capable of variable thrust. In both areas, he was successful. Robert H. Goddard died on Aug. 10, 1945, four days after the first atomic bomb was dropped on Japan.

Goddard was the first scientist who not only realized the potentialities of missiles and space flight but also contributed directly in bringing them to practical realization. Goddard had a rare talent in both creative science and practical engineering.

We know that during WW II, all the major powers had some experience in varying degrees of rocketry. Imperial Japan had the least experience. Nazi Germany had the most. The Allies were in between. The science of rocketry, including the sub disciplines such as ballistic flights, were already established in the US. The absence of a deployed weapon, as in an American version of the V-2, should not be taken as an absence of the base science and foundations of engineering of the device. If there are any amount of technology acquisition and adoption, the question then is about the extent. Since the US already had the base science of rocketry, any technology acquisition and adoption would most likely be in practical engineering, not base knowledge, and by the works of Goddard, we know that the level of dependency is minimal.

For the question of time, if we assume that a country does possess some base knowledge and practical engineering, we can reasonably ask were there any time elapsed from point of the establishment of that amount of indigenous knowledge and engineering until the time of foreign technology acquisition and adoption. The greater the time elapsed, the greater the dependency. We can tell that this is not the case with the US, despite the absence of a deployed weapon like the V-2. Since both the US and Nazi Germany had similar technology levels in rocketry, the US does not need the V-2 to eventually develop something like the Saturn V or a weapon like the Minuteman ICBM. Any technology acquisition from Nazi Germany would be more geared towards verification of theories and correlation of engineering principles, in other words, 'they' and 'us' double-checked each other in terms of science and engineering with the acknowledgement that the Germans were slightly ahead in engineering.

Can the same argument be applied to Iran? No.

The current Iranian rocketry and ballistic missile weapons program is well near completely dependent upon foreign technology acquisition and adoption. Any indigenous programs involving base science and engineering have atrophied for a variety of reasons, least of all because of human intellect. Iranians are no less intelligent than Italians or Germans or Americans. Just that different circumstances produced different outcomes.

Your charge that the US depended wholly upon Germany's science failed -- spectacularly.

 

[Thomas]

@ Thomas,

Stop lying. Both Corporal and WAC Corporal missiles were made after United States had extensive access to Nazi technology. The missile technology developed under direct supervision of Hitler himself, with scientists who used to work for him, swore allegiance to him and even offered him missiles as weapons. Even Braun used slave labors. You can use propaganda to ease the pain now but the history will not change. US rockets are never more accurate than Russians. That was just a cold war propaganda by US media. Russian AA and SA missiles were and are ahead of US technology. US has no equivalent for S-400 neither it has any equivalent for Bulava missiles. It was Nazi Germans who run US rocket program. After Nazi engineers died, US has not done much. The jewel of US space program today, Atlas V rocket runs on Russian engines. The private companies you were talking about are nothing more but US government front companies to go and buy Russian technology, parts and engines. That is the truth. Now you can jump up and down and cry but it will not change the truth. US never had any indigenous rocket science. All German and Russian tech in US rockets make them fly. Bravo to Iran to have been able to do it under sanctions.

After the Nazi scientists were taken to USSR/ USA, Germany could not build anything of substance and grandiose in rocketry. Actually to this day, Europeans have problems with their rockets and space program despite their heavy access and reliance on Russian and US (Nazi) technologies. It proves it was Nazi and not Germans whom US should thank. As I said, Americans should raise and say Heil Hitler, Comrade Stalin.

Lol, why do you have your underwear all in a bundle? It's a proven fact the U.S. was experimenting with rockets before any captured Nazi scientists were on the scene. And after the war the U.S. did take advantage of German expertise. The Russians did the same thing and that is a historical fact as well.

And your assertion that the US has no equivalent to the S400 is bankrupt. The SM-3 and SM-6 (extended range SM-3) is more than a match. And their targeting radars exceed in capability.


RIM-161 Standard Missile 3 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

S-400 (SAM) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia