Iran is developing system similar to S-300

[PERSIAN GOD KING]

This is weird, a while back they said they dont plan on making their own s-300 but are developing an long range air defense, now they come out and say we almost made an s-300.

as for thier s-300, i think iran should concentrate on an s-400 since s-300 is old and its technology is known by usa so they could easily counter it.

---------- Post added at 07:02 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:00 PM ----------

But then why did Iran came up with a vintage F-5.

Whats a stupid comment..
did you know the f-18 was created from the f-5?
also what do you know about irans version? do you work for the iranians airforce?

 

[longbrained]

This is weird, a while back they said they dont plan on making their own s-300 but are developing an long range air defense, now they come out and say we almost made an s-300.

as for thier s-300, i think iran should concentrate on an s-400 since s-300 is old and its technology is known by usa so they could easily counter it.

---------- Post added at 07:02 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:00 PM ----------



Whats a stupid comment..
did you know the f-18 was created from the f-5?
also what do you know about irans version? do you work for the iranians airforce?

No they did not. Actually S-300 is a long range system capable of engaging targets at upto 300 kilometers away. Iran's engineering level is not at a level to go straight for S-400. Even China does not have such a capability now and their HQ-9 is a copy of S-300. And news reports do not say that Iran has made a system. Rather the news reports quote an official saying that they have made "conceptual design" of the system meaning that they have just drawn up the specification of the system and the actual engineering design has been started. It will take years for the system to be designed built, tested, calibrated and finally mass produced and operationalized after spending billions of dollars. It is not a joke to develop a complex system. The S-300 heavily depends on technologies of 80's and 90's. Though it is going to be abit old when Iranian system hit the market but still it would be better than nothing. The greatest strength of an Iranian system would be that it is being built by Iran and therefore can be manufactured as many as it needs and that without worry of sanctions or without giving political/financial points to a supplying foreign country. Operationally it would also help Iran since only Iranians would know exactly about the system so in a war the system would not be a compromised system and enemy knowing everything about it even the disable codes which basically are transmitted to the system and disable it by locking it. As it happened to Syrians and Iraqis when Israeli/US planes came to bomb. It will take more years after Iran's Bavar-373 has come out that Iran would be able to produce a system with performance of S-400 and that means sometime after 2020. But Iranians better have based their system on S-300VM or S-300PMU2 than S-300P. I personally would favor S-300VM, since it has ABM capability too while others dont.

 

[gambit]

Whats a stupid comment..
did you know the f-18 was created from the f-5?
also what do you know about irans version? do you work for the iranians airforce?

Really? Then why is it that all Iran could do was modified the tail of the Iranian F-5s? Why not built an F-18? The F-5 served as the starting point and its fuselage influenced the developments of many later aircrafts but it is a stretch to say that the F-18 is the F-5's direct descendant.

 

[longbrained]

Really? Then why is it that all Iran could do was modified the tail of the Iranian F-5s? Why not built an F-18? The F-5 served as the starting point and its fuselage influenced the developments of many later aircrafts but it is a stretch to say that the F-18 is the F-5's direct descendant.

Because Iran's strategy does not envision an ultra-modern airforce. Iran knows very well that it can not build an airforce on par with US airforce. With limited funds at their disposal they are working on a limited air force with Saeqeh and Morgh-e-Ashora. They certainly do not hope to beat F-22 in dog fights. It is called rationality. What Iran lacks in air force, it compensates for by using ballistic missiles and cruise missiles/anti-ship missiles cheaply. Ballistic missiles are inherently difficult to intercept and ground/sea hugging cruisers are even more difficult to detect and destroy. The other area for which Iran is hoping to compensate for is a robust ground based air defense capability which would make impossible for intruding air force to operate in. All these combined give Iran the capability to counter even F-22. They can hit back by using ballistic missiles and cruise missiles and if they develop a good enough ground based air defense system, they can even counter F-22's on cheap terms. All these depend on this new system, Bavar-373 being capable of defeating stealth fighters such as F-22 with some ABM capability to counter medium range missile and cruise missiles. Since US will never launch an intercontinental ballistic missile against Iran because of its close proximity to Russia and the fear of a miscalculation leading to World War 3, all Iran would need is a system similar to S300VM or Antey-2500, since Iran already has ballistic missiles and cruise missiles to hit back.

 

[gambit]

Because Iran's strategy does not envision an ultra-modern airforce. Iran knows very well that it can not build an airforce on par with US airforce. With limited funds at their disposal they are working on a limited air force with Saeqeh and Morgh-e-Ashora. They certainly do not hope to beat F-22 in dog fights. It is called rationality. What Iran lacks in air force, it compensates for by using ballistic missiles and cruise missiles/anti-ship missiles cheaply. Ballistic missiles are inherently difficult to intercept and ground/sea hugging cruisers are even more difficult to detect and destroy. The other area for which Iran is hoping to compensate for is a robust ground based air defense capability which would make impossible for intruding air force to operate in. All these combined give Iran the capability to counter even F-22. They can hit back by using ballistic missiles and cruise missiles and if they develop a good enough ground based air defense system, they can even counter F-22's on cheap terms. All these depend on this new system, Bavar-373 being capable of defeating stealth fighters such as F-22 with some ABM capability to counter medium range missile and cruise missiles. Since US will never launch an intercontinental ballistic missile against Iran because of its close proximity to Russia and the fear of a miscalculation leading to World War 3, all Iran would need is a system similar to S300VM or Antey-2500, since Iran already has ballistic missiles and cruise missiles to hit back.

There are so many things wrong in there about the F-22 but am not going to divert the discussion for that. Suffice to say that you are simply -- WRONG. And am willing to back up my arguments about it as I have in the past.

 

[longbrained]

There are so many things wrong in there about the F-22 but am not going to divert the discussion for that. Suffice to say that you are simply -- WRONG. And am willing to back up my arguments about it as I have in the past.

OOOOoooowwwww. We are so afraid of your argument.

F-22 by itself is a failed bird. The program has been cancelled. It is not by any measure the god it was advertised to be. It can be hit, provided technology of air defense is geared to that end. Both Antey-2500 and S-300 VM in addition to short range Pantsir S-1 are capable to engage it. S-400 has the primary mission to fight off stealth birds. It was DESIGNED to be that. Even S-75 was able to engage and hit F-117, so it is doable. Having 200 deployed systems of S-300 VM and Antey-2500 in a layered configuration backing up each other covering a whole country like Iran or Pakistan would make any US airforce pilot refusing to go on a mission, since it would be suicidal. F-22 might hit one or two radars, launchers if it is lucky but hundreds of other launchers and radars in range would get it. A single S-300VM system has 144 missiles ready to be launched in seconds. F-22 at most can carry perhaps two or three precision guided air to ground missiles. It does not stand a chance even if dozens of F-22 swarm the site in a suicide bombing mission. It just would not cut it.

 

[gambit]

OOOOoooowwwww. We are so afraid of your argument.

You will be by the time am done......But not here. I have the laws of physics on my side. You have nothing but hot air.

 

[longbrained]

You will be by the time am done......But not here. I have the laws of physics on my side. You have nothing but hot air.

Laws of physics say when a S-400 missile with 800 lb of TNT explodes next to cockpit of a F-22, nothing remains of the pilot to fly the mighty F-22. Hot air is produced in this process which can be seen from the ground station monitoring the situation using electro-optics on S-400. With lots of black smoke of course. No mayday call will be heard naturally.

 

[gambit]

Laws of physics say when a S-400 missile with 800 lb of TNT explodes next to cockpit of a F-22, nothing remains of the pilot to fly the mighty F-22. Hot air is produced in this process which can be seen from the ground station monitoring the situation using electro-optics on S-400. With lots of black smoke of course. No mayday call will be heard naturally.

Baghdad Bob...!!! Is that you...???

You should keep in mind, or go and find out, of how many dire reports were made for US prior to Desert Storm. Iraq was equipped with Soviet and Chinese weaponry and both countries claimed enormous casualties for US because their weapons were 'designed' for such and such...and so on and so on...And the Iraqis were well trained...And experienced...And battle hardened...And in the end, both countries ended up with eggs on their faces when their stuff failed to live up to expectations.

Since the end of the Iran-Iraq War, what has Iran done other than Photochopped their missiles launches? Sorry, kid, but Iran's Ministry of Propaganda does a much better job than you have done here so far.

 

[amalakas]

Baghdad Bob...!!! Is that you...???

You should keep in mind, or go and find out, of how many dire reports were made for US prior to Desert Storm. Iraq was equipped with Soviet and Chinese weaponry and both countries claimed enormous casualties for US because their weapons were 'designed' for such and such...and so on and so on...And the Iraqis were well trained...And experienced...And battle hardened...And in the end, both countries ended up with eggs on their faces when their stuff failed to live up to expectations.

Since the end of the Iran-Iraq War, what has Iran done other than Photochopped their missiles launches? Sorry, kid, but Iran's Ministry of Propaganda does a much better job than you have done here so far.

it is not fair to put iraq into the discussion, that had nothing to do with the equipment the iraqis had. In other hands, those weapons would have been far deadlier.

 

[gambit]

it is not fair to put iraq into the discussion, that had nothing to do with the equipment the iraqis had. In other hands, those weapons would have been far deadlier.

Of course it is fair. You are arguing after the fact that Iraq using Soviet and Chinese weapons lost spectacularly. Am willing to bet that during Desert Storm build-up you had doubts if the US could succeed.

 

[amalakas]

Of course it is fair. You are arguing after the fact that Iraq using Soviet and Chinese weapons lost spectacularly. Am willing to bet that during Desert Storm build-up you had doubts if the US could succeed.

Not at all, during the first iraq war i was still active, nobody doubted the war would be spectacularly won. But that doesn't mean that someone else wouldn't do more damage with the same arsenal. The iraqi military was at best a joke.

 

[longbrained]

Baghdad Bob...!!! Is that you...???

You should keep in mind, or go and find out, of how many dire reports were made for US prior to Desert Storm. Iraq was equipped with Soviet and Chinese weaponry and both countries claimed enormous casualties for US because their weapons were 'designed' for such and such...and so on and so on...And the Iraqis were well trained...And experienced...And battle hardened...And in the end, both countries ended up with eggs on their faces when their stuff failed to live up to expectations.

Since the end of the Iran-Iraq War, what has Iran done other than Photochopped their missiles launches? Sorry, kid, but Iran's Ministry of Propaganda does a much better job than you have done here so far.

Is this your scary arguments based on formulas of physics? Pity you. True Iraq was armed to the teeth by United States, France and Soviet Union. But when they were equipping their old buddy Saddam they took care to given him only enough weapons to fight Iran and nothing more. US air force advisers stationed in Baghdad provided Saddam with real time satellite imagery, but those supports stopped for their client once they decided he was expired and of no use anymore. For example, France had supplied a very sophisticated air defense system for Baghdad. When US attacked Baghdad, France gave all disable codes and designs to US air force and these proved Baghdad defenses useless. Iraq did not have any home grown technology. They depended on US and Soviet Union for that. Anyways, as was seen in the last Iraq war, there was nothing left of Iraqi army after 12 years of sanctions. But despite all this, US has not yet won the war there. It has basically delivered the Iraq to Iran. Today Iran has more control over Baghdad than US.
As for Iranian technology, it would suffice to say that Hizbolah, which is just a shadow of Iranian army using Iranian technology defeated Israel. A third grade Iranian anti-ship missile disabled the state of the art Israeli corvette. The most sophisticated Israel has in its arsenal. Photocrop was actually done by a French photo journalist and propagated around the world. Iran never did such a thing. Iran had released the original photos that day. So your lies are not equal to "laws of physics". You are a pathetic person who can only come here and throw around personal attacks. Physical laws are not your domain. US is scared to sh**, when sees two wooden Iranian wooden fast boats and has even proposed to establish a hotline to Iran, in order to save its ships. Iran has sent satellite to space, a feat that South Korea has not been able to do so despite attempts. Iran manufactures IRBMs and as per your own government (US government) Iran has the world's fastest growth rate in science and technology. Iraq can not be compared to Iran. Iraq was a client state. Iran is sovereign. So be scared and never again come up with "laws of physics" explanation again. You are too illiterate to discuss what is being argued here on PDF. By the way, after ten years, US has not yet been able to defeat 300 illiterate Taliban who wear 7th century clothing and run around bare foot. When you defeat them, then you come and talk to us here on PDF. And yeah, defeating client states do not count. Pick some one your size. And this is a report about the true nature of US bravery:
The private worry of US Marines in Afghanistan - Health - msnbc.com

 

[longbrained]

Not at all, during the first iraq war i was still active, nobody doubted the war would be spectacularly won. But that doesn't mean that someone else wouldn't do more damage with the same arsenal. The iraqi military was at best a joke.

When all those thousands of military advisers from Soviet Union and France pulled out before US-Iraq war and all the technology they had stood compromised, it became a joke. Saddam himself a US client and ex-CIA asset was not upto the job of standing up to US. Besides, he did not have any ideological base whatsoever. He was just a dictator put there by CIA. 3 quarter of the country was either religiously or racially against him anyways (Kurds and Shias). Once outside support for him evaporated and sanctions came in, he could not even control areas beyond Baghdad. Kurds and Shias had established defacto states within Iraq. Iraq's most sophisticated weapon were just several dozens liquid fueled Scud-C (range 450 Km with full payload) which they had imported from Soviet Union. Beyond it, they had nothing. Iran has solid fueled missiles (range 2500 Km) manufactured all in Iran. Iraq did not have submarines. Iran does.

 

[Zabaniyah]

Not at all, during the first iraq war i was still active, nobody doubted the war would be spectacularly won. But that doesn't mean that someone else wouldn't do more damage with the same arsenal. The iraqi military was at best a joke.

It was a one-sided massacre.

It was Saddam's ego that destroyed his entire country and military.

Whoever calls it a war is a moron.