INS Vikrant, being built by Cochin Shipyard, to be ready by 2018:Pics

[anant_s]

Who supplies the engines for IAC-1?

It will run on gas turbines. 4 general electric LM 2500 will power the ship.
Indian Defence Review: Oct-Dec 2010 - Bharat Verma - Google Books

 

[ashok321]

Who supplies the engines for IAC-1?

GE Turbines.
Elecon Engineering = Gearbox

After the steel supply stabilised, problems pertaining to quality gearbox put the brakes on the project. Elecon Engineering Company Limited, a Gujarat-based firm which had earlier manufactured CODOG marine gear boxes for the Navy's Shivalik-class stealth frigates, found itself in the red attempting to make the carrier's huge main gearboxes. “They have been able to overcome the difficulties with support from a German firm,” said a Navy officer.

 

[Indo-guy]

Exactly, the IAC-1's design is built with a clear understanding of what it is and how it will fit into the fleet- the Viky was never meant to be a ACC let alone be in Indian service (Indian and Russian naval ideologies are very different) so its design is hardly maximised for its current role but it is adequate, the IAC-1 will simply be a whole lot better.

@Abingdonboy
how does difference in Naval ideologies impacts or influences deisgn of ACC . can you throw light on this with some examples ?

thanks in anticipation !

5 has always been the ambition of the IN for a long, long time. This is for the futrue however, the IN will not get 5 carriers before 2030-2, at the earliest but by then India's defence budget will be in excess of $250 billion a year so costs don't come into it.

As India's Sphere of Influence grows ...the need for IN to project ample capability through ACC will only be heightened in near future ....
IOR being so crucial to India ...it is imperative that we have some serious punch ...

It is great to see that IN has vision and is embarking upon it with rather balanced way ...unlike IA and IAF ...still reactive in their approach ...

Ironically Ton for Ton, British Aircraft Carrier is CHEAPER than the Indian Aircraft Carrier

Do you know that this is the first ACC being built by India ?
Do you understnad that one will have to allocate sizeable funds to create infrastructure ?

UK has been building ACCs formore than half century ?

Now ton by ton are you not comparing apples with oranges ?

 

[Abingdonboy]

Do you have any preliminary info on IAC-1's Radars and defense system (CIWS etc)?

Sensors-

- EL/M-2248 MF-STAR (confirmed),

-RAN-40L VSR (Confirmed but unclear as its status due to the Finmeccanica affair. It should be unaffected as the new DM has said blacklisting is not going to be imposed and that deals of importance won't be affected like this).

Weapons-
- the gun CIWS is unknown as of now, the IN is actively hunting for a new generation of gun-based CIWS as we speak for its new warships (think along the lines of Phalanx and Goalkeeper).


-OTO 76 mm Super Rapid Gun (confirmed)


- BARAK-1 will also probably be fitted

@Abingdonboy
how does difference in Naval ideologies impacts or influences deisgn of ACC . can you throw light on this with some examples ?

Sure mate, I'll do so after the F1 race

 

[ashok321]

India along with US-UK-France-Russia-China possesses Blue water navy.
Whereas Japan-Australia-South Korea-Brazil-Spain have green water navy.

And all 5 blue water navy nations are permanent members of UNSC - Except India.

 

[migflug]

O

India along with US-UK-France-Russia-China possesses Blue water navy.
Whereas Japan-Australia-South Korea-Brazil-Spain have green water navy.

And all 5 blue water navy nations are permanent members of UNSC - Except India.

Only us and uk are blue water navy. Neither india china or russia is BWN.

 

[ashok321]

O


Only us and uk are blue water navy. Neither india china or russia is BWN.

Are you itching for a knowledge punishment newbie?

Blue-water navy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[uparyupari]

Do you know that this is the first ACC being built by India ?
Do you understnad that one will have to allocate sizeable funds to create infrastructure ?
UK has been building ACCs formore than half century ?
Now ton by ton are you not comparing apples with oranges ?

UK too was building two 65K ton monsters for the first time. What infrastructure for AC was created ?
Everybody allocates funds to create infrastructure How do you think they get made ?
Ton for Ton I am comparing AC to AC, not apples to oranges.

 

[DeathInvader]

LOVELY rendering.

But I failed to see the Barak-8 SAM silo.

Anybody know where it will be placed ?



It is possible that the cost involved the cost of modernising the Ship yard. But that is suspect.

19 K crore was released this year when the hull was almost complete.

Ever wonder why British AC is cheaper even though they had pretty much the same problem we had ?

They knew what they were building. For us it was a trial an error thing. They already have made ACC in the past.

 

[Roybot]

UK too was building two 65K ton monsters for the first time. What infrastructure for AC was created ?
Everybody allocates funds to create infrastructure How do you think they get made ?
Ton for Ton I am comparing AC to AC, not apples to oranges.

That because you are comparing the cost of two QE class aircraft cariers, to one Vikrant class. Am sure the follow on Vikrant class carrier will be cheaper to make, ton for ton that is.

 

[ni8mare]

Sensors-

- EL/M-2248 MF-STAR (confirmed),

-RAN-40L VSR (Confirmed but unclear as its status due to the Finmeccanica affair. It should be unaffected as the new DM has said blacklisting is not going to be imposed and that deals of importance won't be affected like this).

Weapons-
- the gun CIWS is unknown as of now, the IN is actively hunting for a new generation of gun-based CIWS as we speak for its new warships (think along the lines of Phalanx and Goalkeeper).


-OTO 76 mm Super Rapid Gun (confirmed)


- BARAK-1 will also probably be fitted


Sure mate, I'll do so after the F1 race

it will be barak 2 i think not barak 1 ..........

 

[Manindra]

russiais not to blame onli but the corrupt UPA which deliberatelli messed it all up as they wanted there "cut in the deal" infact they themsefls used all channels and asked russian to do waht they did and later to show good face put all blame on IN & russians

if the NDA had done anything wrong why count they come up with one such scam and nail NDA in there 10 years of rule ?

Vikramaditya deal signed in NDA era with tons of loopholes in contract.

Why do you need to do anything ?

But you are try to execute CSL

Part of project planning is to ensure supply chain and have reliable suppliers in place. Also to ensure that no vendor can hold you captive and delay the project. This is BASIC stuff.

Thats work of CSL not IN & you penalise vendor when they sign contract but Russian didn't signed contract.
Do you want to penalise DRDO-SAIL for not developing steel instantly when Russian denied it.

Cochin shipyard are not under the Navy for the IN to order them about. There is a contract review process where vendor approval is taken and supply chain confirmed. IN did not do the contract review and CS did not do due diligence.

Here order means to build,
Either CSL would build ACC without even a purchase order from IN ?

No, Insurance company PAYS for the delay genius. It also ensures Risk is minimised by other means, like transport by ship or Air or rail etc.

How can you Project manager when you didn't comprehend full matter of supply chain.
If truck met accident then Insurance company would pay only damaged gearbox price not CSL idle station & workers expenses.

Virkramaditya will carry 36 Aircrafts, Vikrant will carry 30 aircrafts.

Funny, you quote aircraft carrying capacity of Vikramaditya in full compact in wartime situation but IAC-1 capacity in general condition.
IAC-1 would carry same size of air fleet in wartime situation & operate aircraft more smoothly compare to Vikramaditya.

Vikramaditya speed is 30+ knots, Vikrant speed is 28 knots.

Which they only do in their full speed trails & you ignore IAC-1 acceleration & cruise speed & range.

Vikramaditya cost us 2.3 billion $, Vikrant cost us 3.3 billion $.

Which is not full carrier & make us depend on Russia for full 30 years for upgrade & maintenance. Plus I am not counting this in $2.3 Billion package does not include CIWS & SAM.

Vikramaditya LIFT position is the hurdle, not the bridge position, that is the ONLY drawback.

Kindly compare to other ACC to check the difference which means it Aircraft launching rate would be lower than IAC-1.

 

[uparyupari]

They knew what they were building. For us it was a trial an error thing. They already have made ACC in the past.

UK has made a 20K ton AC before, 65 k Ton AC was a first for them too. We have made ships before too only 40 k Ton AC was new. Similar to UK.

That because you are comparing the cost of two QE class aircraft cariers, to one Vikrant class. Am sure the follow on Vikrant class carrier will be cheaper to make, ton for ton that is.

We have cheaper raw material and labour, our AC should be 3-4 times cheaper than UK. Ton for Ton. That means an additional 2 Billion $ lost due to poor planing and execution. i.e. Rs. 12,000 Crores.

That means we could have brought 4 additional Shivalik class Frigates with that money. Or 6 Talwar class frigates with that money.

It meant we could have gifted 1 Lakh Rs. to 1.2 Million Indians.

But you are try to execute CSL

I am trying to show you the harsher realities of life. Try to be dispassionate about it.

Thats work of CSL not IN & you penalise vendor when they sign contract but Russian didn't signed contract.
Do you want to penalise DRDO-SAIL for not developing steel instantly when Russian denied it.

Here order means to build,
Either CSL would build ACC without even a purchase order from IN ?

IN as the Prime Buyer has a responsibility too. They are supposed to manage the program by doing their bit. That is how its done in the real world. They cannot escape their responsibility by pointing to the CSY.

If CSL is so focused on the PO then they should build the ship with the price mentioned in the PO .... you cannot have selective adherence to PO.

How can you Project manager when you didn't comprehend full matter of supply chain.
If truck met accident then Insurance company would pay only damaged gearbox price not CSL idle station & workers expenses.

If you cannot even comprehend the supply chain then you are just plain incompetent ........ and then IN was a fool to give this project to an incompetent organization and then not bother to keep tabs and hold hands.

Funny, you quote aircraft carrying capacity of Vikramaditya in full compact in wartime situation but IAC-1 capacity in general condition. Again the insurance payout will depend on the insurance you take and its cover.

IAC-1 would carry same size of air fleet in wartime situation & operate aircraft more smoothly compare to Vikramaditya.

Which they only do in their full speed trails & you ignore IAC-1 acceleration & cruise speed & range.

Viki would beat vikram in acceleration, speed and range. Also in no. of aircrafts it can carry.

Which is not full carrier & make us depend on Russia for full 30 years for upgrade & maintenance. Plus I am not counting this in $2.3 Billion package does not include CIWS & SAM.

Kindly compare to other ACC to check the difference which means it Aircraft launching rate would be lower than IAC-1.

CIWS and SAM will cost another 10 million $, this is peanuts. I have already compared the AC to UK AC. Vikram comes out the loser there too.


Anyway if you want me to stop painting Vikiram as bad, you should stop challenging me. Let us drop it. I don't feel too good about shaming the IN either. It had to be done once, not multiple times.

 

[Manindra]

I am trying to show you the harsher realities of life. Try to be dispassionate about it.



IN as the Prime Buyer has a responsibility too. They are supposed to manage the program by doing their bit. That is how its done in the real world. They cannot escape their responsibility by pointing to the CSY.[/QUOTE]
If IN do these work then what would CSL do ?
If Russia denied us steel then what would IN do ?, Present their some ship to melt it & use in IAC-1, P-28 & P-15A ?

If CSL is so focused on the PO then they should build the ship with the price mentioned in the PO .... you cannot have selective adherence to PO.

Then IN should mention it in their contract clause.

If you cannot even comprehend the supply chain then you are just plain incompetent ........ and then IN was a fool to give this project to an incompetent organization and then not bother to keep tabs and hold hands.

Russ
Yes, just like they take a retired cruiser from Russia, ncefethen signed contract for upgrade for $800 million which balloons $2.3 billion & without self defence system.

Funny, you quote aircraft carrying capacity of Vikramaditya in full compact in wartime situation but IAC-1 capacity in general condition.

You didn't answer this question.

Again the insurance payout will depend on the insurance you take and its cover.

Insurer don't take risk of delay in supply chain.

Viki would beat vikram in acceleration, speed and range. Also in no. of aircrafts it can carry.

Where is your proof?

CIWS and SAM will cost another 10 million $, this is peanuts. I have already compared the AC to UK AC. Vikram comes out the loser there too.

Which self defence system would cost like that. IN would be fool then deploy such horrible expensive system.

Anyway if you want me to stop painting Vikiram as bad, you should stop challenging me. Let us drop it. I don't feel too good about shaming the IN either. It had to be done once, not multiple times.

Neither I want but please stop spreading disinformation.
If you have query in naval area then consult @Capt.Popeye or @Penguin

 

[Capt.Popeye]

I am trying to show you the harsher realities of life. Try to be dispassionate about it.



IN as the Prime Buyer has a responsibility too. They are supposed to manage the program by doing their bit. That is how its done in the real world. They cannot escape their responsibility by pointing to the CSY.

If IN do these work then what would CSL do ?
If Russia denied us steel then what would IN do ?, Present their some ship to melt it & use in IAC-1, P-28 & P-15A ?


Then IN should mention it in their contract clause.



Russ
Yes, just like they take a retired cruiser from Russia, ncefethen signed contract for upgrade for $800 million which balloons $2.3 billion & without self defence system.


You didn't answer this question.

Insurer don't take risk of delay in supply chain.




Where is your proof?




Which self defence system would cost like that. IN would be fool then deploy such horrible expensive system.



Neither I want but please stop spreading disinformation.
If you have query in naval area then consult @Capt.Popeye or @Penguin[/QUOTE][/QUOTE]


I do not entertain Uncouth Goofy Charlies.......
It was a revelation to read that GIC can make Marine Gear Boxes for Aircraft Carriers to replace damaged ones.
So is ELECON in the Insurance business now?
Very illuminating..... I suggest that you do not waste your time any further on this. Maybe Thambi Subra-Man is the only person who can deal with him.