INS Vikrant, being built by Cochin Shipyard, to be ready by 2018:Pics

[Manindra]

IAC-2 not getting delayed is just wishful thinking and speculation. Facts speak otherwise.

There has to be a reasonable assessment and a realistic projection. We were quick to blame the Russians when INS Vikramaditya went bad, but we are strangely silent when INS Vikrant had a worse show.

There has been a pretty serious foul up from the keel laying to the commissioning. And unless we do a fact finding and learn from the mistakes, we are doomed to replete it forever

Russian blackmail us & slow the work on Vikramaditya purposely for more money.

 

[uparyupari]

Russian blackmail us & slow the work on Vikramaditya purposely for more money.

Then the same must be true for the IN too. Indian navy has blackmailed us and slowed the work on Virkant purposely for more money.

You cannot have double standards.

 

[Manindra]

Then the same must be true for the IN too. Indian navy has blackmailed us and slowed the work on Virkant purposely for more money.

You cannot have double standards.

IN don't build carriers.

 

[uparyupari]

IN don't build carriers.

Project management for IAC-1 was by IN. The design and R&D was by IN. Cochin shipyard are just builders.

 

[Manindra]

Project management for IAC-1 was by IN. The design and R&D was by IN. Cochin shipyard are just builders.

IN Design Bureau just design the ACC but manufacturer got spanked in manufacturing. IN have no control on CSL they can only ask project progress report from them.

 

[uparyupari]

IN Design Bureau just design the ACC but manufacturer got spanked in manufacturing. IN have no control on CSL they can only ask project progress report from them.

Do you know how absurd that sounds ? If IN was monitoring the program, why was the Red Flags not raised earlier ? Why was Cochin Shipyard not penalized or threatened as the IN did with Russian Shipyard ? Why did the IN not escalate the matter as they did it with Russia ? right up to Putin.

Classic case of "Russia kare to Balatkar, IN kare to chamtkar ".

 

[Manindra]

Do you know how absurd that sounds ? If IN was monitoring the program, why was the Red Flags not raised earlier ? Why was Cochin Shipyard not penalized or threatened as the IN did with Russian Shipyard ? Why did the IN not eclate the matter as they did it with Russia ? right up to Putin.

Classic case of "Russia kare to Balatkar, IN kare to chamtkar ".

First thing its not late due to purposely instead due to sabotage ( deny of steel ) & due to accident which are two main factors for major delay which is not fault of CSL.
Vikramaditya was old ship which cost got tripled & major delay ( more than IAC) for 30 year old ship which is less capable than IAC-1.

 

[uparyupari]

First thing its not late due to purposely instead due to sabotage ( deny of steel ) & due to accident which are two main factors for major delay which is not fault of CSL.
Vikramaditya was old ship which cost got tripled & major delay ( more than IAC) for 30 year old ship which is less capable than IAC-1.

No. It is due to lack of due diligence and poor planing.

IN should have anticipated the need for special steel and managed their Vendor network more professionally.

CSL should have managed their supply chain more professionally. How did they take on the order without confirming the supply of Steel ?

Why was the risk of accident not covered by insurance ? Why was Risk management and risk mitigation not done ?

Vikramaditya is going to be FASTER than Virkant and is going to carry MORE aircraft's than Vikrant. So far its also CHEAPER than Vikrant.

Look at the facts again, you will come to the same conclusion.

 

[Manindra]

Rubbish. It is due to lack of due diligence and poor planing.

You made up the mind then what can I do ?

IN should have anticipated the need for special steel and managed their Vendor network more professionally.

IN is fighting force & nowhere in manufacturing. Russia supplies us steel in all warships but denied for this ( Without contract), then what option you have ?
Go to lab , make formula for steel which cost time & money both. ( But good for future )

CSL should have managed their supply chain more professionally. How did they take on the order without confirming the supply of Steel ?

When navy ordered them to manufacture then they go to Russia which they denied

Why was the risk of accident not covered by insurance ? Why was Risk management and risk mitigation not done ?

Does Insurance company should also repair damaged giant gearbox & instantly ?
Without gearbox many process got halted which cost also time & money.

Vikramaditya is going to be FASTER than Virkant and is going to carry MORE aircraft's than Vikrant. So far its also CHEAPER than Vikrant.

Vikramaditya is not ACC to begin with but battle cruiser which got converted in ACC for us.
Its bridge location is awkward which make hurdle in operations of Aircrafts smoothly, neither its carry more ACs than IAC-1 even in much pack position.
IAC-1 & Vikramaditya have nearly same speed but IAC-1 have highly reliable LM2500 gas turbine propulsion.

Look at the facts again, you will come to the same conclusion.

Care to look above facts.

 

[uparyupari]

You made up the mind then what can I do ?

Why do you need to do anything ?

IN is fighting force & nowhere in manufacturing. Russia supplies us steel in all warships but denied for this ( Without contract), then what option you have ?
Go to lab , make formula for steel which cost time & money both. ( But good for future )

Part of project planning is to ensure supply chain and have reliable suppliers in place. Also to ensure that no vendor can hold you captive and delay the project. This is BASIC stuff.

When navy ordered them to manufacture then they go to Russia which they denied

Cochin shipyard are not under the Navy for the IN to order them about. There is a contract review process where vendor approval is taken and supply chain confirmed. IN did not do the contract review and CS did not do due diligence.

Does Insurance company should also repair damaged giant gearbox & instantly ?
Without gearbox many process got halted which cost also time & money.

No, Insurance company PAYS for the delay genius. It also ensures Risk is minimised by other means, like transport by ship or Air or rail etc.

Vikramaditya is not ACC to begin with but battle cruiser which got converted in ACC for us.
Its bridge location is awkward which make hurdle in operations of Aircrafts smoothly, neither its carry more ACs than IAC-1 even in much pack position.
IAC-1 & Vikramaditya have nearly same speed but IAC-1 have highly reliable LM2500 gas turbine propulsion.
Care to look above facts.

Virkramaditya will carry 36 Aircrafts, Vikrant will carry 30 aircrafts.
Vikramaditya speed is 30+ knots, Vikrant speed is 28 knots.
Vikramaditya cost us 2.3 billion $, Vikrant cost us 3.3 billion $.
Vikramaditya LIFT position is the hurdle, not the bridge position, that is the ONLY drawback.

 

[GURU DUTT]

Russian blackmail us & slow the work on Vikramaditya purposely for more money.

russiais not to blame onli but the corrupt UPA which deliberatelli messed it all up as they wanted there "cut in the deal" infact they themsefls used all channels and asked russian to do waht they did and later to show good face put all blame on IN & russians

if the NDA had done anything wrong why count they come up with one such scam and nail NDA in there 10 years of rule ?

 

[Abingdonboy]

Vikramaditya is going to be FASTER than Virkant and is going to carry MORE aircraft's than Vikrant. So far its also CHEAPER than Vikrant.

The official carrying capacity of the IAC-1 hasn't been announced but it is likely to have a greater capacity than the Vikramditya as it is designed from the ground up as a ACC. The IAC-1 will also have a far longer life than the Vikramditya and will be FAR more advanced (higher levels of automation and far superior sensors carried) with an optimised 21st century design.

Additionally the Vikramdtya was designed as a missile cruiser hence its massive island which hampers deck operations.


As a product and for what it brings to India the IAC-1 is worth the extra cost to the Vikramditya.

 

[uparyupari]

The official carrying capacity of the IAC-1 hasn't been announced but it is likely to have a greater capacity than the Vikramditya as it is designed from the ground up as a ACC. The IAC-1 will also have a far longer life than the Vikramditya and will be FAR more advanced (higher levels of automation and far superior sensors carried) with an optimised 21st century design.
Additionally the Vikramdtya was designed as a missile cruiser hence its massive island which hampers deck operations.
As a product and for what it brings to India the IAC-1 is worth the extra cost to the Vikramditya.

INS Vikrant is not worth the extra cost, but it was worth building it.

Its projected capability is lesser than the Vikramaditya, so you are speculating when you say it will exceed Viki.

 

[anant_s]

The official carrying capacity of the IAC-1 hasn't been announced but it is likely to have a greater capacity than the Vikramditya as it is designed from the ground up as a ACC. The IAC-1 will also have a far longer life than the Vikramditya and will be FAR more advanced (higher levels of automation and far superior sensors carried) with an optimised 21st century design.

Additionally the Vikramdtya was designed as a missile cruiser hence its massive island which hampers deck operations.


As a product and for what it brings to India the IAC-1 is worth the extra cost to the Vikramditya.

Do you have any preliminary info on IAC-1's Radars and defense system (CIWS etc)?

 

[thesolar65]

Who supplies the engines for IAC-1?