Indira Gandhi's assassins honoured by Akal Takht

[Abingdonboy]

I'll take your word as to what Sikhs consider Hindus as brothers (even though there is a minority amongst Sikhs who have an antipathy for what happened in Punjab), but no Hindu considers Sikh as any different from him. I'm yet to meet a Hindu who harbors any kind of anti-pathy towards Sikhs in general.

Like you say- the tiniest minority but the numbers are getting less with each passing day.

But ofcourse you must exclude MMS from that list.

Source: http://www.defence.pk/forums/centra...sins-honoured-akal-takht-9.html#ixzz2KAfion00

Nothing to do with his relgion but I rate MMS highly as an INDIAN.

 

[KS]

Most Indians have been brain washed to think Sant Jarnail Singh Bhindranwale was automatically evil. They do not even do independent study of these matters with a neutral mindset. Sadly so many myths surround this man. For the Sikhs he was just following the Sikh concept of Sant Sipahi where Bhagti is intertwined with Shakti. I suggest you read this:

You say see Bhindranwale from a neutral perspective, yet your account is not neutral.

I dont deny the role of Indira in creating Bhindranwale but can you deny the arbitary killings that were perp by him in Punjab?

truth is not what the congress says or what the bhindranwale websites say..its somewhere in the middle.

I acknowledge that..do you ? I also feel you actually do the Sikhs a disservice by associating bhindranwale as the embodiment of Sikhism..

If you think attacking the Harimandir Sahib was justified, fine. But what justification is there for attacking during a holiday when maximum number of civilians would be present? why didn't she attack a day before or after the holiday? why did she choose on purpose the day when it would be the most crowed by civilians? It's like attacking the Kabah during Hajj or attacking Allahahbad during the Kumb Mela.

I agree with this and I already said in my previous post that the Govt should have exercised caution and wisdom in how it approached the whole problem. Read the previous post.

Once the militants were killed and the Darbar sahib complex was occupied by the Indian military, why did they begun to gather and execute Sikh males? why were Sikh women raped by the soldiers? even babies who were a few months old were not spared and were killed without mercy. Why was the Sikh reference library which contained priceless historical Sikh artifacts burnt by the Indian army?What justification is there for all of these crimes? if a Sikh will not feel anger at these crimes when what will he feel.

Again I feel much of this is exaggeration..similar to the accusations against IA in Kashmir..there were brutalities..but it was not to the extent what you portray. Still that was a regrettable incident. I'm a Tamil. I cannot understand the full extent of what the Sikhs might feel..but I do have a rough idea on that. That's why I did not even argue with you on the assasination part.

 

[Abingdonboy]

@Jaggu I agree with KS- a lot of those crimes are widely exaggerated. Like he said- there is always a lot of such accusations around such military action but most turn out to be nothing but hogwash. I have read that a lot of these were started by those policitcans who opposed IG and the GoI back then-not Sikhs really.

 

[Rafi]

Having Sikh relatives - and having seen their pain - that still lingers after all these years, the people responsible for the pogroms after Mrs Gandhi was assassinated - need to be bought to justice - for the Sikh community to move on. My two cents.

 

[EXPERIMENT]

This one is a mixed bag for me.
Indira Gandhi was like the Margaret Thatcher of India, Marge gave the world the Idea of Global Warming and Indira gave us Sikh animosity. In other words god damn women (Cant live with them cant live without them)

Indira did Bangladesh though it happened under her leadership it was not entirely her cause. The lady had balls (or the lack off hence less to protect)
But she made some economic blunders.
The Sikhs have enough grievance to warrant what they do now, I do not blame them. It amazes me how little the Indian general public even knows about the Sikh, in fact I tire of explaining that the words Sikh and Punjabi are mutually exclusive i.e. one word has little to do with the other.
Though now it has little to do with the Lady who has departed but her legacy. Having reached out to the Sick community, their current grievance is not with the past but with the enduring legacy of Mrs Gandhi, This weakens their faith in the voting public.

I know the Sikhs will move on, but lets hope that the public is behind justice when they go to the ballets next time.

PS I had met Indira Gandhi on several occasions in my youth.

 

[Jaggu]

You say see Bhindranwale from a neutral perspective, yet your account is not neutral.

I dont deny the role of Indira in creating Bhindranwale but can you deny the arbitary killings that were perp by him in Punjab?

truth is not what the congress says or what the bhindranwale websites say..its somewhere in the middle.

I acknowledge that..do you ? I also feel you actually do the Sikhs a disservice by associating bhindranwale as the embodiment of Sikhism..

I agree with this and I already said in my previous post that the Govt should have exercised caution and wisdom in how it approached the whole problem. Read the previous post.

Brother, myths have been created by the congress party backed by the unscrupulous Indian media against Sant Bhindranwale. Crimes were done and the media without any proof put the blame on Sant Bhindranwale and created this divide between Hindus and Sikhs. This was politics at it's worst.

When Swami Vishnudevananda asked Sant Bhindranwale of why the entire Indian media and government is pitting all these crimes on him, Sant Bhindranwale answered that since the creation of time those who follow Dharma and do Bhagti have always been the target of politicians. Today that is what is happening. Sant Bhindranwale would every time condemn any crime that was done against Hindus, but the pro congress Indian media would never report his statements that would make him look good. What they would do is misquote or take out of context his words and create a mythic story.

Again I feel much of this is exaggeration..similar to the accusations against IA in Kashmir..there were brutalities..but it was not to the extent what you portray. Still that was a regrettable incident.

It is not an exaggeration. If one or two survivors had said this one can question it, but what do you say when hundreds of eye witnesses saw these crimes? Why do you think there was a media blackout in Punjab during the operation? so the Indian and world media would not be exposed to the crimes. When the government does a media blackout, one must question what the government is trying to hide.

 

[T90TankGuy]

says the guy with General Sunderji as his avatar.

As far as i know Gen Sunderji never went into politics . was a man of principle and was a great strategist. .... so whats your point?

 

[zaxcollix]

This discussion is NOT about Bhindranwale , Indra Gandhi or Sikh terrorism or operation Bluestar.

Its about community leaders honoring dishonorable men and setting a bad example for your Kids and coming generation.

Its about loosing respect from 1 billion people, respect that has been earned by the good deeds of your ancestor.

No amount of 'explanations' can justify terrorism ...and no amount of 'justification' can make a cowardly act heroic.

If you want sympathy for killings of innocent Sikhs, you have it, but to assume the sympathy extends to honoring cowards is a stretch.

Pretty much all Hindus consider Sikhs as a branch of Hinduism ....the same way Buddhism is seen as a branch of Hinduism.

 

[KS]

.. Having reached out to the Sikh community, their current grievance is not with the past but with the enduring legacy of Mrs Gandhi, This weakens their faith in the voting public.

That is exactly why they have had two elected Congress governments after the Punjab insurgency. Makes total sense.

 

[Jaggu]

That is exactly why they have had two elected Congress governments after the Punjab insurgency. Makes total sense.

The two times the congress won is also for a reason. The first is because during the final years of militancy Sikhs had lost all faith in democracy, they had decided to boycott the Punjab elections, which was the lowest electoral turnout in the history of Punjab. The result, the congress under Beant Singh won. The second time the congress won is when there was a split between the Akali Dal the Badal faction and the Tohra faction. The result of this infighting, the congress under Capt Amrinder Singh won. Just thought I should clear this up since you brought it up.

 

[KS]

The two times the congress won is also for a reason. The first is because during the final years of militancy Sikhs had lost all faith in democracy, they had decided to boycott the Punjab elections, which was the lowest electoral turnout in the history of Punjab. The result, the congress under Beant Singh won. The second time the congress won is when there was a split between the Akali Dal the Badal faction and the Tohra faction. The result of this infighting, the congress under Capt Amrinder Singh won. Just thought I should clear this up since you brought it up.

Thanks for the explanation..but still can you deny that there are many Sikhs who support Congress ? You cant be a significant political force in Punjab without Sikhs supporting it.

 

[EXPERIMENT]

That is exactly why they have had two elected Congress governments after the Punjab insurgency. Makes total sense.

The Punjab insurgency ..... Would you like to add your name to it? when you see babies brains splattered on a train seat?
They wanted it to stop as would any being.
The result was the current government. Do as you please. Vote and shout.

 

[Jaggu]

Like his mother, Rajiv Gandhi also had blood on his hands. While the mother had killed thousands of Sikhs by attacking the Harmandir Sahib, the son killed thousands more during the congress orchestrated anti Sikh riots when his mother was assassinated. Killing Sikhs is like a tradition of the Nehru dynasty. A Sikh by the name of Karmjit Singh who was a survivor and witness of the Anti Sikh riots in Delhi tried but failed to assassinate Rajiv Gandhi.

www . sify.com/news/interview-the-man-who-tried-to-gun-down-rajiv-gandhi-news-columns-jeivEKheefj.html

 

[KS]

The Punjab insurgency ..... Would you like to add your name to it? when you see babies brains splattered on a train seat?
They wanted it to stop as would any being.
The result was the current government. Do as you please. Vote and shout.

Can you write that in English ? I could not make head or tail of it.

 

[zaxcollix]

Sikhs tried that peacefully for decades before 84(Punjabi sooba movement, waters issue and other demands). Most Indians think everything just started in 84 or with Bhindranwala. All the peaceful means were finished when in 1978, 13 Sikh protesters were killed by Nirankaris who were allies of Indira Gandhi. Sikhs tried all sorts of ways to have the Nirankars punished through the court system. When nothing was accomplished, that is when Sikhs began to take up arms to defend themselves. Sri Guru Gobind Singh Jee Maharaj has said in Zaffarnama letter written to Aurangzeb that "when all peaceful means have been used, it is righteous to raise the sword(as a last resort)".

Are you really trying to justify taking arms and killing your own people ? ..... there are no Aurangzeb's left.....no more boogie man to blame.

Just look at your own history. Didn't Krishna and the Pandavs also take up arms and wage war when all peaceful means failed? Didn't Shiva jee Maratha also take up arms to fight against the unjust government of his time? Most Indians today have been brain washed by Mahatma Gandhis Ahimsa philosophy which have no base in Hindu Dharm.

Taking up arms is the last resort when no more options are open to you. In modern day and age there are multiple avenues to justice. Press, news channels, Courts, pressure groups, political parties and internet. If you insist in living in the 17 century then you will eventually start resembling our neighbors. All the best with that.

Democracy is only advantageous if you happen to belong to the majority. Sikhs are less than 2% of India's population. Sikh cannot get any justice through democracy, and the fact that those congress ministers who led anti Sikh riots in 84 are still living a luxurious free life.

Democracy works for everyone who believe in it. If you believe in animal logic of revenge and killings........

That statement is not supported by Hindu Dharma. Was Lord Krishna and Arjun not following dharma when they assassinated Bhishma, Karna, Drona all of whom were unarmed? those men were killed because they were on the side of Adharma(the side of Duryodhan).

Bhishma, Karna and Drona were all killed in WAR. They choose to throw down their weapon for various reason, but did not quite the war. Its NOT assasination.

No, Dyar was on stage giving a speech when Udham Singh assassinated him. At that time too, most Indians (including Gandhi and Nehru) condemned the assassination and declared Udham Singh a terrorist. But decades later the same Indians (including Nehru) declared Udham Singh as a great man.

Its is because your honor people like Udham Singh your kids have turned into various version of them. That will be your legacy. Now the same story is repeated in honoring the two other cowards and the saga continues. Soon you will have generations killing each other for 'their versions of dharma' and self righteousness. Sounds like Taliban to me ...killing others for the 'true cause'. All the best

The attack happened right on the Shaheedi purab of sri Guru Arjun Dev Jee. That was when Sikh from all over India come to Harimandir Sahib to observe the holiday. Indira gandhi chose that day so maximum number of Sikhs can be killed. If the attack was to happen why didn't it happen a day before or after the holiday? secondly, why was there a media black out in all of Punjab. What was Indira Gandhi trying to hide from the world media? Why was the Sikh reference library containing priceless historical artifacts burnt by the Indin army?Once the Sikh militants were killed, why did the Indian army begin to kill Sikh pilgrims(elderly, children, babies) and rape Sikh women? Even the Afghan army of Ahmad Shah Abdali was not this cruel when they attack Harmandir Sahib.

This version of the truth is not the point of discussion and is irrelevant to the topic at hand.