India's Demand for Russia to Transfer Tech on PAK FA: Practical or Preposterous?

[Saif-ud-Din Qutuz]

5 billion $$$$$$$ DOLLARS can go on AMCA and to DASSULT OR LOCKHEED MARTIN to HJelp INDIA develop a INDIAN SPECFIC FIFTH GENERATION fighter.

The remaining $20 billion can be divided on off the SHELF purchase of 90 rafales and 45 F35 LIGTENING for the second indian carrier VIKRANT which arrives in 2020

THE PURCHASE OF 45 F35 for Navy gives india the fifth gen option albeit navy

RAFALE numbers go 126 fighters

AND TO REALLY PISS OFF RIUSSIA we GIVE THJE $10 BILLION SU30MKI upgrade to Israel or France

RUSSIA will bend MONEY ALWAYS TALKS

$100 BILLION MARKET my friends

That makes sense but how could Israel or France do the upgrade job on SU30MKI? Russia built that, can any country do it better than Russia? They know the systems, inside out. $10 billion is a colossal amount considering its just upgrade we're talking about.

 

[BHarwana]

We are offering to customize the aircraft to our need. I understand that Pak as a nation is used to hand me downs and scraps thrown at them, but try to move away from that for a second and know that paying customers with actual money and power get things tailor made. What we do with our money is our business. Besides, if you know that it costs way less to develop a 5th gen fighter, then isn't the offer of 4-5 billion generous enough to get TOT? so then why is it preposterous to ask for TOT?

Who is willing to buy the PAKFA? please show us the customers that are lined up? On the other hand, the FGFA offer is to split costs of development and guarantee 25-30 billion in future revenue as a result of captive consumption. Show me one country that has offered this to Russia. I challenge you.

Cost of PAK-FA= 50 million plus the development cost divided buy number of units produced
Cost of development = 10 billion

Now if India buy 120 units the cost will be 100 million.

If India demands upgrade the cost of development goes up by 4 to 5 billion. the average cost of a jet would be 130 million.

120 x 130 = 15600 that will be 15.6 million

If Russia sells TOT Russia will only get 5 billion and India will get their investment of entire 10 billion on the PAK-FA.

I think Russians are not idots.

 

[Saif-ud-Din Qutuz]

For the bragger who says US dropped Pakistan, we dropped US. We don't need their equipment which we can't use to defend our country. On top of that, China's military equipment is improving by leaps and bounds. China is already the technological leader. We want Chinese military hardware. End of the story. R

 

[Chinese-Dragon]

First off, its a 30 year deal and reportedly only 400 billion worth, so please don't go about fluffing numbers to buttress your argument.

http://www.bbc.com/news/business-27503017

And you're paying for the amount of gas and oil being consumed. Youre not doin anyone any charity. so I don't see a comparison to this situation.
Besides, if the projected cost of the project is 4-5 billion, why would we pay anything more, and not to forget the 25-30 billion in orders out of captive consumption?! Why wouldn't we try to maximize the gains for our risk? High risk high reward, no? We want TOT for the risk we are taking. Those are basic rules of investment.
Which other country will risk and guarantee that investment to Russia? If you know any, maybe you should drop the Russians some intel because they will be very interested.





They may not be poor, but they still need cash. No one likes losing customers, especially paying customers.
Notice how quickly Pakistan was dropped by the US like a hot potato! Should tell you the value of a paying customer with deep pockets.

That's only half the pipeline deal, nice cherry picking. What about the other half?

Russia, China edge closer to US$1-trillion gas deal - Financial Post

They may not be poor, but they still need cash. No one likes losing customers, especially paying customers.
Notice how quickly Pakistan was dropped by the US like a hot potato! Should tell you the value of a paying customer with deep pockets.

Oh yeah, now tell me what will they do after they give their trade secrets to India?

Do you wonder why the MMRCA went on for a decade or so, with ridiculous sums of money being proposed, but in the end France did not even want to give up their 4.5 generation technology?

Now who on Earth will give up 5th generation technology? Only 3 countries have successfully tested prototypes for 5th generation fighters and only 2 of those have actually inducted them. This is not some 3rd or 4th generation tech we are talking about, Russia itself has not yet inducted their 5th generation fighters yet.

 

[BHarwana]

Well someone needs to educate your lot and prevent the brain numbing misinformation spread by your kind.
So don't flatter yourself, consider the lessons a charity. I tend to do that for street mongrels as well.

What is the other option for India except PAK-FA just tell me one with TOT?

 

[Peshwa]

Cost of PAK-FA= 50 million plus the development cost divided buy number of units produced
Cost of development = 10 billion

Now if India buy 120 units the cost will be 100 million.

If India demands upgrade the cost of development goes up by 4 to 5 billion. the average cost of a jet would be 130 million.

120 x 130 = 15600 that will be 15.6 million

If Russia sells TOT Russia will only get 5 billion and India will get their investment of entire 10 billion on the PAK-FA.

I think Russians are not idots.

The 25-30 Billion is over and above the cost of development.. If they don't take the option they have to bear the cost of development and internal consumption. Oh and not to forget, lose a massive market like India. Basically, the Russians can cover their overheads and cost through the business of one single customer! Every other export is simply profit!

What is the other option for India except PAK-FA just tell me one with TOT?

One could easily contract a nation to build one for us. The thing you forget is that we actually have the money for this.

 

[BHarwana]

One could easily contract a nation to build one for us. The thing you forget is that we actually have the money for this.

Yes please tell me one nation that will build it for you.

 

[Storm Force]

That makes sense but how could Israel or France do the upgrade job on SU30MKI? Russia built that, can any country do it better than Russia? They know the systems, inside out. $10 billion is a colossal amount considering its just upgrade we're talking about.

The MKI can stay with Russia or be a joint upgrade [programme AS the key jammers avionics on MKI are Israeli and French already........

READ THE SUPER MKI INDIA programme ITS HUGE and involves new engines new aesa radars new EW suites and ram coating and structural changes to reduce RCS and new fifth gen missles INDIA will modernise 250 su30mki to super mki between 2020-2030 at $30 million per plane with additional cost for wea;pons

 

[Saif-ud-Din Qutuz]

The MKI can stay with Russia or be a joint upgrade [programme AS the key jammers avionics on MKI are Israeli and French already........

READ THE SUPER MKI INDIA programme ITS HUGE and involves new engines new aesa radars new EW suites and ram coating and structural changes to reduce RCS and new fifth gen missles INDIA will modernise 250 su30mki to super mki between 2020-2030 at $30 million per plane with additional cost for wea;pons

Wow! Now that's called a move. It's already cool though. I wonder what the end product would be with these mods.

 

[Peshwa]

Yes please tell me one nation that will build it for you.

But instead of skirting all my questions, why don't you simply answer. Which other country is willing to offer Russia the deal India has offered it?

Your claim was that the Russians had customers lined up with 4-5 billion and China 12 billion for the PAKFA.
Please lets hear it.

 

[BHarwana]

US, France, Japan

France and Japan both are going to buy from USA they cannot develop a stealth fighter jet.
Only USA Russia and China can these are not GUCCI shoes.
Now tell me who will develop it for India?

 

[Saif-ud-Din Qutuz]

There just happens to be a lot of mongrels here, so it brings out the charity in me.
And as far as fair market value is concerned, what would you even know about it? that would be between us and Russia. Your country has to subsidize your purchases, so the less you talk, the better.



US, France, Japan.

Everyone knows who is the jack *** here. Don't worry, you're doing a great job. Read the article that has been posted. I wish you had before trolling. Then you would have known why I said "Fair Market Value". You're such a sore loser.

 

[BHarwana]

But instead of skirting all my questions, why don't you simply answer. Which other country is willing to offer Russia the deal India has offered it?

Your claim was that the Russians had customers lined up with 4-5 billion and China 12 billion for the PAKFA.
Please lets hear it.

Oh, sorry I should have told you the News before.
Idex 2017: UAE and Russia to develop fighter jet
http://www.thenational.ae/business/economy/idex-2017-uae-and-russia-to-develop-fighter-jet

 

[Chinese-Dragon]

Well someone needs to educate your lot and prevent the brain numbing misinformation spread by your kind.
So don't flatter yourself, consider the lessons a charity. I tend to do that for street mongrels as well.

There just happens to be a lot of mongrels here, so it brings out the charity in me.

Do you ever feel guilt or remorse at referring to people as street mongrels repeatedly during a debate?

Don't worry, I'm not giving out any negative ratings today, just curious.

 

[Peshwa]

That's only half the pipeline deal, nice cherry picking. What about the other half?

Russia, China edge closer to US$1-trilli on gas deal - Financial Post

Nice try!
Your link is fron June 16 2011. My link from May 21, 2014.
I
don't try these gimmicks please.

Oh yeah, now tell me what will they do after they give their trade secrets to India?

Do you wonder why the MMRCA went on for a decade or so, with ridiculous sums of money being proposed, but in the end France did not even want to give up their 4.5 generation technology?

Now who on Earth will give up 5th generation technology? Only 3 countries have successfully tested prototypes for 5th generation fighters and only 2 of those have actually inducted them. This is not some 3rd or 4th generation tech we are talking about, Russia itself has not yet inducted their 5th generation fighters yet.

I just wrote an entire explanation to you on it. I'm not going to spoon feed you, just go through the previous post.
Simply put, we believe our investment and risk profile for an untested fighter with no customers lined up is a risk enough to demand TOT. Especially in a changing political landscape.
In terms of business, it is us to manage our risk profile. If the Russians aren't for it, they wouldn't be negotiating.
If they don't want to move ahead they can take the risk themselves with their slowed down economy and we can give the business to their competitors.
In doing so, not only lose an important customer, but also fund your competition and potentially allow an ally to buy from geo political completion.