India Eyes Su-30 AESA Upgrade
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Jungibaaz
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OMG!?
do you see the thread name???? cuz I can..plz let this be the last about Pakistan, if you would like to talk about PAF plz kindly create a thread and we'll discuss it there.get this and plz remember it because the amount of Pakistani members that have taught you this is immense, and you still choose to ignore it.
45 old f-16s being upgraded to block 52 standard minus the CFT's. 17 delivered f-16/52s and order for another 18. plus an option for a further 14 which the PAF is likely to exercise. so 45 + 17 + 18 = 80 (plus an option for 14 more).
part in bold...jf-17 French avionics package has been put on hold NOT BECAUSE OF FUNDING, but because the Chinese are making their own avionics systems such as AESA.
Also you ever heard of the lost decade...??? We are passed that and now the PAF is expanding it's reach to 4th and 4.5 gen fighters!
Storm Force
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Jungibaz.
PAF has not receive all 18 F16/52s only 6 have been delivered as yet.
PAF have not orderd any additional F16/52s as yet THATS A FACT no good telling me PAF has the option "that means nothing"
IAF can order 300 mmrca they have the option "does not mean its going to happen.
STOP comparing a 25 year vintage F16 mlu with a F16/52 totally different planes. and cost.
PAF has not receive all 18 F16/52s only 6 have been delivered as yet.
PAF have not orderd any additional F16/52s as yet THATS A FACT no good telling me PAF has the option "that means nothing"
IAF can order 300 mmrca they have the option "does not mean its going to happen.
STOP comparing a 25 year vintage F16 mlu with a F16/52 totally different planes. and cost.
Jungibaaz
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the last time I'm saying this.. and plz understand it...
those vintage f-16s are being upgraded to blk52 standard minus the CFTs
CONNAN
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dudes please discuss PAF arguments in PAKISTAN DEFENCE SECTION
coming back to topic i found an intresting info old but i believe its useful
http://www.aviationweek.com/aw/blogs/defense/index.jsp?plckController=Blog&plckBlogPage=BlogViewPost&newspaperUserId=27ec4a53-dcc8-42d0-bd3a-01329aef79a7&plckPostId=Blog%3a27ec4a53-dcc8-42d0-bd3a-01329aef79a7Post%3af423e576-2a68-47c1-9d02-9746754fb493&plckScript=blogScript&plckElementId=blogDest
Stealthy Sukhois
Posted by Bill Sweetman at 8/25/2009 5:00 AM CDT
Talking about stealth in relation to the Sukhoi Su-27 and its extended family, including the new Su-35S, tends to cause people to fall over in fits of mirth. Like Chandler's Moose Malloy, the basic airplane looks about as inconspicuous as a tarantula on a slice of angel food.
But just about six years ago, in late 2003, Defense IQ managed to persuade a team from the Institute of Theoretical and Applied Electromagnetics (ITAE), part of the Russian Academy of Sciences, to present at a conference on stealth in London. I was a presenter - I don't recall any other journalists being present. It sounded as if the paper was going to be some kind of theoretical snorefest and I didn't expect much from it.
I was wrong.
The ITAE researchers produced a highly detailed paper showing how the institute had developed radar cross-section (RCS) prediction software, test facilities for measuring the RCS of real aircraft, and a variety of RCS-reduction materials, all with the Su-27 family as the main application. One illustration showed an RCS test on Bort (fuselage number) 708, one of the Su-27M prototypes that were precursors to the Su-35S:
blog post photo
ITAE
The invaluable Flateric has recently posted my full account here, together with some artwork from the paper. (Ignore the comments from the f-16.net F-35 fans, who have a hard time with words of more than two syllables.)
According to the paper, the ITAE researchers had found materials that solved the dominant problem in the Sukhoi design: straight-through inlets to the compressor face, with no line-of-sight blockage. Rather than placing an absorber-treated blocker in front of the engine, as on the Super Hornet, ITAE developed a radar absorbent material (RAM) that could be applied to the first-stage compressor blades. The rest of the RAM suite included a metallic treated canopy and sprayed-on RAM coatings on the missiles.
ITAE had also experimented with a plasma screen in front of the radar antenna. Details were few - it was possible that it was contained in some kind of dielectric plastic envelope - but it could be switched on and off in tens of microseconds, so that it could be turned off when the radar needed to operate and turned on at other times. Along with RCS-reduction treatments for the exhaust, it seemed less mature than the rest of the technology.
One year later, the same presenter appeared at IQPC's conference. I asked him if any production aircraft had been modified, and he responded that "about 100" Sukhois had received RCS-reduction mods.
Of course, this by no means will render a Sukhoi invisible - and similar measures have been implemented on many aircraft, including F-16s (Have Glass I and II), the Super Hornet and new European fighters. But when you consider that the most recent versions carry a very serious jamming suite, the complexion of the issue changes.
Jamming and RCS reduction are highly synergistic. The "burn-through" range - the point at which none of my jamming works because the jammer power is less than the scatter from the target - goes down much more quickly with lower RCS than the detection range.
Yes, there are "home-on-jam" technologies that can be applied to missiles - but if the missile's computer has to match its wits with the agility of the jammer, it's a more dicey proposition. New jammers with solid state directional transmitters and digital RF memory (DRFM), which allows you to parrot the incoming signal back in a nanosecond, can give anyone a hard time.
coming back to topic i found an intresting info old but i believe its useful
http://www.aviationweek.com/aw/blogs/defense/index.jsp?plckController=Blog&plckBlogPage=BlogViewPost&newspaperUserId=27ec4a53-dcc8-42d0-bd3a-01329aef79a7&plckPostId=Blog%3a27ec4a53-dcc8-42d0-bd3a-01329aef79a7Post%3af423e576-2a68-47c1-9d02-9746754fb493&plckScript=blogScript&plckElementId=blogDest
Stealthy Sukhois
Posted by Bill Sweetman at 8/25/2009 5:00 AM CDT
Talking about stealth in relation to the Sukhoi Su-27 and its extended family, including the new Su-35S, tends to cause people to fall over in fits of mirth. Like Chandler's Moose Malloy, the basic airplane looks about as inconspicuous as a tarantula on a slice of angel food.
But just about six years ago, in late 2003, Defense IQ managed to persuade a team from the Institute of Theoretical and Applied Electromagnetics (ITAE), part of the Russian Academy of Sciences, to present at a conference on stealth in London. I was a presenter - I don't recall any other journalists being present. It sounded as if the paper was going to be some kind of theoretical snorefest and I didn't expect much from it.
I was wrong.
The ITAE researchers produced a highly detailed paper showing how the institute had developed radar cross-section (RCS) prediction software, test facilities for measuring the RCS of real aircraft, and a variety of RCS-reduction materials, all with the Su-27 family as the main application. One illustration showed an RCS test on Bort (fuselage number) 708, one of the Su-27M prototypes that were precursors to the Su-35S:
blog post photo
ITAE
The invaluable Flateric has recently posted my full account here, together with some artwork from the paper. (Ignore the comments from the f-16.net F-35 fans, who have a hard time with words of more than two syllables.)
According to the paper, the ITAE researchers had found materials that solved the dominant problem in the Sukhoi design: straight-through inlets to the compressor face, with no line-of-sight blockage. Rather than placing an absorber-treated blocker in front of the engine, as on the Super Hornet, ITAE developed a radar absorbent material (RAM) that could be applied to the first-stage compressor blades. The rest of the RAM suite included a metallic treated canopy and sprayed-on RAM coatings on the missiles.
ITAE had also experimented with a plasma screen in front of the radar antenna. Details were few - it was possible that it was contained in some kind of dielectric plastic envelope - but it could be switched on and off in tens of microseconds, so that it could be turned off when the radar needed to operate and turned on at other times. Along with RCS-reduction treatments for the exhaust, it seemed less mature than the rest of the technology.
One year later, the same presenter appeared at IQPC's conference. I asked him if any production aircraft had been modified, and he responded that "about 100" Sukhois had received RCS-reduction mods.
Of course, this by no means will render a Sukhoi invisible - and similar measures have been implemented on many aircraft, including F-16s (Have Glass I and II), the Super Hornet and new European fighters. But when you consider that the most recent versions carry a very serious jamming suite, the complexion of the issue changes.
Jamming and RCS reduction are highly synergistic. The "burn-through" range - the point at which none of my jamming works because the jammer power is less than the scatter from the target - goes down much more quickly with lower RCS than the detection range.
Yes, there are "home-on-jam" technologies that can be applied to missiles - but if the missile's computer has to match its wits with the agility of the jammer, it's a more dicey proposition. New jammers with solid state directional transmitters and digital RF memory (DRFM), which allows you to parrot the incoming signal back in a nanosecond, can give anyone a hard time.
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I remember telling you, and having a source to go along with that, that the above information is a rumour and is proven to be false. Yet here you are saying it again. Are you thick? Are you not interested in facts? Are you trying to not believe to contrary which has evidence supporting it?
abdullahk
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you call it diplomacy, but you have frogotten that french deal is still on, and kashmir issue is a big problem to your democratic goverment, beacuse killing innocent people dosent let you have a good image, and let go back on diplomacy i can see it happen .... india right now has money right now to flex miltary spendings but what if you dident? you would have no diplomacy , not to mention your buddy russia raising priceses on everything you buy from them beacuse they want to squeeze the money out from your wallets.
How is it working? Which deal has India stopped or made a significant difference in?
palash_kol
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I have few questions for you....Answer those questions.-
1. How do you know we kills innocent people in kashmir?
2. Who are setting bombs in Kashmir?
3. After 1990, the kashmir situation been under control...what happened or who was behind the camera that cause same situation happened again?
4. Who are the jihadis in P0K? What they do?
5. Who are behind bombing in your Pakistan?
6. Dont you think...Pakistan is now suffering for its own militancy?
Coming to Russia....
7. Do you people hate or dislike Russia? If yes, then why Pakistan approach russia for defence equipments? You should not buy IL-76 midair-refueller from them...
8. if you have the money...dont you want to spend it?
Any Pakistani friend can answer these questions gently...
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kingdurgaking
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Yeah French deal is on.. i am not denying it.. let c how long it will be put off.. diplomacy doesnt mean that things happen permanently but even if it is pushed temporarily also it is a success.. If Kashmir issue is a big problem hmmm which country responded to your cry?.. But if we raise regarding your weapon sale countries respond atleast with some soothing answer that it is a downgraded it is not a match etc etc though it is not in reality... Dont you call this diplomacy?
Inflation is a normal thing and you dont know have any idea why russia raised price for the Aircraft carrier.. It was initially offered free of cost(A good gesture).. but we started adding goodies into it.. Only when it comes you will understand the real value.. secondly MKI upgrade is a major one which is why india paying that price.. Our kanjoos babus are not that stupid to pay such huge price...
It is not only Russia you can point... All countries are doing the same (e.g.) France....
And you dont need to talk that bad about Russia...
So did you figure out which deal Bharat has stopped or made a significant difference in?
laiqs@mi
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Crap... India stopping your deals or highlighting the sale of defence to you is not called Cry baby buddy instead it is called diplomacy.. To say you cant even do cry against us.. which is not because you didnt want but you cant... India highlights its concern.. and its works... you to cry on kashmir but no one is listening that is the difference our diplomacy and your cry act
Indian mantality revolwes around Chanakya doctrine...
and these are same tactics exercised by indian govt, army...
Indian mantality revolwes around Chanakya doctrine...
and these are same tactics exercised by indian govt, army...
kingdurgaking
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The highlighted "india stopping your deals" doesn't say we stopped your deals .. we are trying is the crux under it
( i know you are laughing that i got caught 
) 
... Any ways my argument stands on.. we are trying to stop your deals via diplomacy in return we get answer saying that the deals will be monitored so and so(though in reality it doesnt happen).. Where as no one is giving such answer for your cry on Kashmir.. which was my argument on the difference between indian diplomacy and your diplomacy ....kingdurgaking
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Yes buddy... get something without shedding blood and wasting resource is more powerful and intelligent than violence/war
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