How should Pakistanis view the Mughals?

[Maula Jatt]

I see that some nationalists have divided opinions on Mughals

Pashtuns tribes of Pakistan were clearly in conflict with Mughals- that whole Pashto language of the jinns thing

Punjab I would say it's complicated on one hand we historically celebrated fights against the Mughals ( folk Vaar ballods, my grandpa had a collection dk where they are now)

On the other hand a bunch of Mughal Generals, wazirs, prime ministers, administrators, governor's came from the region

In my experience muhajjir populace consider Mughals as their own in every sense of the word to the point in the early decades of Pakistan, as a state for Muslims of South Asia we were supposed to be a successor state to the Mughals (like how Russian czars were to the Romans or Byzantines were to the Romans - it's not exactly a new concept but we're a republic not an empire, so I'd discourage people to think along those lines)

What "kinda" relationship should we have as a people, country with Mughals?
@M. Sarmad @hydrabadi_arab

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

South Asia's Islamic history starts with the Rashidun Caliphate touching Makran.

So, if we stick to our Islamic identity, we don't start nor stop with the Mughals, but go way, way back. In fact, the earliest Islamic dominion to have ruled the regions that made up Pakistan (plus parts of North India and up to Bengal) was the Delhi Sultanate.

Those rulers came from various backgrounds, e.g., Turkic, Persian, etc, but arguably, they did the most to deepen Islam's presence in South Asia (IMO more than the Mughals). The Mughals are part of the wider history, much like the Ummayads, but I'd argue that most of the Muslim identity in South Asia developed during the Delhi Sultanate.

 

[Kaniska]

If we could have a good relationship like the US - Canada, then Pakistan should be celebrating the glory and success of Mogul culture and success along with India and BD.

irrespective of our difference, we can not erase history...Each culture and ruler has contributed something or the other to the subcontinent.

 

[Maula Jatt]

South Asia's Islamic history starts with the Rashidun Caliphate touching Makran.

So, if we stick to our Islamic identity,

Islamic identity is part of our identity/history not all of it , there's a rich history before Islam too and Islam added to it

but I'd argue that most of the Muslim identity in South Asia developed during the Delhi Sultanate.

To some extent yes that's true

 

[Mirzali Khan]

I see that some nationalists have divided opinions on Mughals

Pashtuns tribes of Pakistan were clearly in conflict with Mughals- that whole Pashto language of the jinns thing

Punjab I would say it's complicated on one hand we historically celebrated fights against the Mughals ( folk Vaar ballods, my grandpa had a collection dk where they are now)

On the other hand a bunch of Mughal Generals, wazirs, prime ministers, asminsitors, governor's came from the region

In my experience muhajjir populace consider Mughals as their own in every sense of the word to the point in the early decades of Pakistan, as a state for Muslims of South Asia we were supposed to be a successor state to the Mughals (like how Russian czars were to the Romans or Byzantines were to the Romans - it's not exactly a new concept but we're a republic not an empire, so I'd discourage people to think along those lines)

What should be the relationship Pakistani state/ people with Mughals
@M. Sarmad @hydrabadi_arab

I don't like the Mughals personally, they were enemies. However, we cannot leave out the fact the Mughals contributed to a lot to the South Asian Muslim culture. Their architecture can be seen all across South Asia and they made significant contributions to cuisine too.

It is a part of the history, that should be it, and as something that was part of us. We shouldn't hate on it or glorify it.

 

[Paitoo]

It is not very instructive to view current nations through the political lens of the medieval or late medieval history. The composition of people that inhabits the current geographic region of India and Pakistan today is very different from what it would have been in that era. Hell, even Bangalore is very different today than what it was when I first came here in 2001 and Mumbai would be unrecognisable to anyone time travelling from 1500 AD. And I am not referring to the physical changes but the demographics. I am sure same is the case with Karachi which now has a huge Mohajir and Pashtun population. Should I be emotionally invested in the regional politics of Karntaka, which I now call home and have lived 11 years? Or should it be Maharashtra where I lived 16 years? Or should it be the Delhi region where my roots are? Should I celebrate the Chalukya and Rashtrakuta empires, or the Marathas or the Rajput and Mughals?

I do not see Pakistan as a successor state to the Mughals. The Mughals were a dynasty, not a nation. The Mughal subjects included Hindus, who were present in their administration and military. Many mohajirs are upper caste Kayasthas converted to Islam, who were present in the Mughal administration in very large numbers. Pakistan was created on the basis of shared Islamic values, not shared Mughal values (which I frankly don't know what they are)

The current Indian nation consists of regions which were often at war with each other. We have made peace with it and no longer let the past internal conflicts be a subject of discussion.

 

[Maula Jatt]

We shouldn't hate on it or glorify it.

This, that's how feel too - I am generally neutral towards the Mughals although I do celebrate extra ordinary general's or prime ministers who were from our land's (as individuals)

But I just wanted to know the general opinion

 

[iamnobody]

Pashtuns tribes of Pakistan were clearly in conflict with Mughals- that whole Pashto language of the jinns thing

Mughals mercilessly crushed the Pothans. But without Mughals, Muslims would be a tiny minority in South Asia. So why do the Muslim Pothans hate them?

 

[Tamerlane]

It’s a very long subject. But like someone said, Islamic history in South Asia goes back much further and the Mughals represent the last few hundred years. They took over a previous empire in Delhi and increased it to its furthest extent. They also represent the peak of Islamic military power, art, architecture and culture in this part of the world.

It is wrong to say that were against Pathans. In fact, Pathans were a big part of the Mughal administration and army. Pathans moved to Delhi in large numbers like they move to Karachi now.

Lahore was a major center of the Mughal empire and we should be happy to have all those monuments and buildings. I would say that all Pakistanis should think of the Mughals as part of their own history.

 

[Raj-Hindustani]

I see that some nationalists have divided opinions on Mughals

Pashtuns tribes of Pakistan were clearly in conflict with Mughals- that whole Pashto language of the jinns thing

Punjab I would say it's complicated on one hand we historically celebrated fights against the Mughals ( folk Vaar ballods, my grandpa had a collection dk where they are now)

On the other hand a bunch of Mughal Generals, wazirs, prime ministers, asminsitors, governor's came from the region

In my experience muhajjir populace consider Mughals as their own in every sense of the word to the point in the early decades of Pakistan, as a state for Muslims of South Asia we were supposed to be a successor state to the Mughals (like how Russian czars were to the Romans or Byzantines were to the Romans - it's not exactly a new concept but we're a republic not an empire, so I'd discourage people to think along those lines)

What "kinda" relationship should we have as a people, country with Mughals?
@M. Sarmad @hydrabadi_arab

In India, the people themselves are split.

I grew as a child by watching amazing dramas on akhbaar.

 

[ThunderCat]

As one of the many rulers in our history much like the Arabs, the Ghaznavids, the Ghoris, the Mongols, the British and so on and so fourth...

 

[Mirzali Khan]

It is wrong to say that were against Pathans.

Its a contested subject because Mughals demonized the Pashto language and started the whole language of jinns thing.

Mughals also molested a woman in Pashtunkhwa, and that led to the uprising and eventual independence of Pashtunkhwa from Mughals.

 

[Maula Jatt]

As one of many rulers in our history much like the Arabs,

Not bad, more of a lesson for local kings and rulers - Many people along the coast like Jutts, proto Baloch/meds were already in rebellion against the oppressive local King, Arabs helped em if anything and brought Islam, that's why Sindh and South Punjab were the hub of Islam before it spread to other regions of Pak

the Ghaznavids, the Ghoris,

Bad, we faught multiple wars with them, multiple rebellions (lots of people don't know this but Hindu shahis attacked the Turks first, more of a preemptive strike to subdue em afterwards the whole thing turned on its head)

the Mongols,

Only reason they gained a foothold was because our northern clan kingdoms faught em off and didn't allow Thier incursions, so they came through the south and a bigger, powerful clan allied with em- that's why Delhi sultanate sultans came all the way to the frontiers and faught the clans as they feared they'll help the mongols as they're allies
(later they switched their alliance and faught off the mongols for the Delhi sultanate because Delhi was conquered after a while by that same mongol allied clan, who made thier own/friendlier guy sultan of Delhi )

Brain twister right?

the British and so on and so fourth...

Bad

Persians, Egyptian, English history is quite similar in that way - those who contributed, assimilated like the Arabs or Turks for Persians were respected but those who didn't like the mongols, vikings were not

 

[AZMwi]

I see that some nationalists have divided opinions on Mughals

Pashtuns tribes of Pakistan were clearly in conflict with Mughals- that whole Pashto language of the jinns thing

Punjab I would say it's complicated on one hand we historically celebrated fights against the Mughals ( folk Vaar ballods, my grandpa had a collection dk where they are now)

On the other hand a bunch of Mughal Generals, wazirs, prime ministers, asminsitors, governor's came from the region

In my experience muhajjir populace consider Mughals as their own in every sense of the word to the point in the early decades of Pakistan, as a state for Muslims of South Asia we were supposed to be a successor state to the Mughals (like how Russian czars were to the Romans or Byzantines were to the Romans - it's not exactly a new concept but we're a republic not an empire, so I'd discourage people to think along those lines)

What "kinda" relationship should we have as a people, country with Mughals?
@M. Sarmad @hydrabadi_arab

before MUSLIMS came to the subcontinent, it was divided into dozens of independent princely states. even hindus didn't liked each other. they were constantly fighting with each other throughout the history.

 

[Maula Jatt]

, Muslims would be a tiny minority in South Asia.

Not true and definitely not true for our regions
Our greatest saints came in the Delhi sultanate era by the time Mughals came majority in our region from Kashmir to Sindh, kpk to gawadar (ofcourse talking overall, pockets were still non Muslims) were already

Muslims