History of Vietnam or What do you want to know about Vietnam?

[yue10]

I copy and past the post of Rye (page 39 in this thread)
"The author of this paper opines that the Mon-Khmer-speaking groups originates from southern,especially southwestern China.These groups were closely related with the Pu recorded in ancient Chinese chronicles.It should be emphasized,however,that most of these groups had emigrated into mainland Southeast Asia before the Pu was recorded in Chinese chronicles.Of today's Mon-Khmer-speaking groups only those stretching in northern Mainland Southeast Asia and southwestern China,e.g.the northern sub-groups of Mon-Khmer-speaking groups are the lineal descendants of the Pu mentioned in ancient Chinese chronicles."
http://www.sealang.net/archives/mks/pdf/35:183-187.pdf

I already seen this Rye, they have copied pasted from the nerd burger girl off different site but who is said this?

You copied and pst too much.
Vietnamese, Kinh people were native people in South East Asia, descended from Mon-Khmer migrants from the center of southeast asia to South China and and to North Vietnam in ancient time, when Thai people and laotiens were also living in South China.

I did not trusting these genetic stuff but this said 02a native of SEA ok, another said it was originate in SEA then disperse from there but both did not say anything about Southern China, keep your fantasies for another day my Annam friend

 

[Snomannen]

are mainlanders civilized? not when they travel abroad. It is like when the French occupied Vietnam, they were rude and aggressive. But at home, they were civilized and handsome.

you are hilarious. Nguyen Huy Thiep wrote in prose, the word "rape" should describe Vietnam´s complicate relationship with China.

I mean Vietnam did adopt Chinese concept (even Japanese had) of distinguishing people of the world into so-called "barbarians and civilized mainlander" 華夷之別.

And the word "rape" can also describe the countless wars in China as well, don't you think?

 

[EastSea]

I already seen this Rye, they have copied pasted from the nerd burger girl off different site but who is said this?


I did not trusting these genetic stuff but this said 02a native of SEA ok, another said it was originate in SEA then disperse from there but both did not say anything about Southern China, keep your fantasies for another day my Annam friend

Our old history book stated that north point of Van Lang reached to Dongding Lake in Mainland China.

 

[yue10]

Our old history book stated that north point of Van Lang reached to Dongding Lake in Mainland China.

then why it lost so much territory?

 

[Viet]

yue10, choose your country flags!

 

[Wholegrain]

Our old history book stated that north point of Van Lang reached to Dongding Lake in Mainland China.

And none of those people living in southern China were Kinh.

 

[EastSea]

And none of those people living in southern China were Kinh.

read more hereunder, the story that north point of Van Lang ( of Kinh people) reached to Dongding lake in China is truth.

"Genetic Links of Mon-Khmer and Hmong-Mien Peoples Confirmed by Chinese researchers, confirms that close genetic ties of Mon-Khmer (a.k.a. Austro-Asiatic when the Munda of India are also included) and Hmong-Mien peoples, at least in the patriline,...

There are 147 Mon-Khmer languages are spoken by more than 90 million people, mostly in Southeast Asia, of which the dominant languages of Vietnam, Laos and Cambodia are the best known (there are isolated pockets elsewhere).

There are 38 Hmong-Mien languages spoken by about 13 million people, of whom 12 million are in Southern China and the rest are in Southeast Asia, in separated linguistic islands across that region.

A genetically based conclusion that the Hmong-Mien peoples are an offshoot of the Mon-Khmer peoples,

Dispatches From Turtle Island: Genetic Links of Mon-Khmer and Hmong-Mien Peoples Confirmed

and more

 

[Viet]

Over 60 million Cantonese have Han paternal lineage, Y chromosome haplogroup Oa3.

40 million Cantonese with native lineage like Haplogroup O1, share the same haplogroup with the Zhuang people, because their ancestors were Zhuang people who gave up their own Tai language, and adopted Cantonese Han language and culture.

Malays has absorbed many ethnic groups, such as Bugis people who adopted Malay language and culture and became Malay people.

You are the liar, I said their ancestors were Zhuang, not that they identify as Zhuang today.


History of Vietnam or What do you want to know about Vietnam?

Ethnic Groups of South Asia and the Pacific: An Encyclopedia - James B. Minahan - Google Books

Cantonese has been influenced by Tai and not Vietnamese, the former inhabitants of Guangdong were Tai speakers.

China calls on Japan to respect historical facts

Food in China: A Cultural and Historical Inquiry - Frederick J. Simoons - Google Books

The Power of Words: Literacy and Revolution in South China, 1949-95 - Glen Peterson - Google Books

Modern Cantonese Phonology - Robert S. Bauer, Paul K. Benedict - Google Books

The Languages of China - S. Robert Ramsey - Google Books

Encyclopedia of the World's Endangered Languages - Christopher Moseley - Google Books

These are the sources for the Tran dynasty.

A History of the Vietnamese - K. W. Taylor - Google Books

Secondary Cities and Urban Networking in the Indian Ocean Realm, C. 1400-1800 - Google Books

You are just a clown! I wonder why you don´t go to a circus and entertain the people there.

I asked you why you argued the world (Vietnam included) was overcrowded by Tai people in ancient times and what you do: you posted endless web links. Did you read the contents at least? You talked of Tai Kingdom. Where did it locate?

Taiwan?

 

[ManUNITEDglory]

Moron, I copy and past here for you, study more, kid:



Language - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia ;Wiki stated that Mandarin and Cantonese in one family of language only.




Cantonese - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia; Wiki stated that there are two languages.


History of Vietnam or What do you want to know about Vietnam? | Page 8

Population of Cantonese in Quangdong province is around 100 millions.

40 % Cantonese shared native paternal bloodline = 40 Million native people NanYue in according to your theory that paternal lineage should decide the identity of each ethnic group. It should be 40 million Zhuang people in Canton.

I reminder you that Zhoang people in Quangdong is 0.7 %, less than 1 million only.

In case of 80 % Cantonese shared native maternal bloodline, understood that they are included above mentioned 40 % posses-ed paternal blood lineage, it mean 40 million Cantonese are native people, 20 million are mixed people, the rest amount to be a Han immigrants, to be 20 %, or in other wording 20 million Cantonese are mixed and 20 million pure Han people living today in Quangdong.

In case of 100 % of Cantonese are mixed, you don't shared same bloodline with Han Chinese.

Any case, there is confirmed by Chinese experts that: in China is existed two group of Han people: Southern Han and Northern Han.

NO NO NO

It means all Cantonese are mixture of East Asian and Southeast Asian, and the average Cantonese are 48% Han + 52% baiyue

The study shows there is no pure blood Baiyue or Han Chinese

 
What matters is the bottom part in the study. The yellow represents East Asian/Siberian mongoloid admixture and brown southern ethnic minority Mongoloid. As you can see Cantonese are 27 - 35% East Asian on average but are 46-49% Han Chinese. Some of the yellow could come from Siberians such as the Mongolian/Jin dynasty invasion so it's not entirely east Asian.

 

[Wholegrain]

You are just a clown! I wonder why you don´t go to a circus and entertain the people there.

I asked you why you argued the world (Vietnam included) was overcrowded by Tai people in ancient times and what you do: you posted endless web links. Did you read the contents at least? You talked of Tai Kingdom. Where did it locate?

Taiwan?

All the sources make it clear that Guangdong was inhabited by Tai people. They say nothing about Vietnamese people. Nanyue was inhabited by Tai people related to the Zhuang. Is that too hard to comprehend?

NO NO NO

It means all Cantonese are mixture of East Asian and Southeast Asian, and the average Cantonese are 48% Han + 52% baiyue

The study shows there is no pure blood Baiyue or Han Chinese

 
What matters is the bottom part in the study. The yellow represents East Asian/Siberian mongoloid admixture and brown southern ethnic minority Mongoloid. As you can see Cantonese are 27 - 35% East Asian on average but are 46-49% Han Chinese. Some of the yellow could come from Siberians such as the Mongolian/Jin dynasty invasion so it's not entirely east Asian.

1. siberians and Mongols have different autosomnal DNA from east asians like Han Chinese, so they would NOT be the same color

2. That image is from the study on "Genetic Structure of the Han Chinese Population Revealed by Genome-wide SNP Variation" and it says nothing about Siberians and northeast asians.

http://download.cell.com/AJHG/mmcs/journals/0002-9297/PIIS0002929709004716.mmc1.pdf

Genetic Structure of the Han Chinese Population Revealed by Genome-wide SNP Variation

Genetic Structure of the Han Chinese Population Revealed by Genome-wide SNP Variation

Figure 3.

Estimated Population Structure by STRUCTURE for K = 2 and K = 3

Each individual is represented by a thin vertical line, and each province is demarcated by a thick vertical black line. The provinces are arranged from north to south, with JPT on the extreme left, representing the northernmost locality, to Liaoning, the northernmost province of China investigated in this study. The Guangdong individuals were grouped into the three dialect groups of Teochew, Hakka and Cantonese. These were then followed by the samples from the two metropolitan cities of Beijing (represented by CHB) and Shanghai, as well as the overseas Chinese community in Singapore. In K = 2, the northern provinces are clearly anchored by the JPT, with a huge membership of northern samples (represented by the yellow segment). The northern membership decreases gradually down to the southern provinces, which show a strong membership of southern samples (represented by the brown segment). At K = 3, JPT is clearly separated from the Han Chinese samples. The analysis revealed a demarcation of north-central-south similar to that shown by Figure 2. The Beijing, Shanghai and Singapore samples showed a clear mixture of southern (long brown lines) and northern (shorter brown lines) individuals, as compared to the provincial samples. The three dialect samples from the Guangdong province were also different from each other, with Teochew being more similar to individuals from the provinces of Hunan and Cantonese being the most southern representative.

 

[ManUNITEDglory]

All the sources make it clear that Guangdong was inhabited by Tai people. They say nothing about Vietnamese people. Nanyue was inhabited by Tai people related to the Zhuang. Is that too hard to comprehend?



1. siberians and Mongols have different autosomnal DNA from east asians like Han Chinese, so they would NOT be the same color

2. That image is from the study on "Genetic Structure of the Han Chinese Population Revealed by Genome-wide SNP Variation" and it says nothing about Siberians and northeast asians.

http://download.cell.com/AJHG/mmcs/journals/0002-9297/PIIS0002929709004716.mmc1.pdf

Genetic Structure of the Han Chinese Population Revealed by Genome-wide SNP Variation

Genetic Structure of the Han Chinese Population Revealed by Genome-wide SNP Variation

You know what I find funny is that even your own Chinese wiki editted that Cantonese are malaysians or baiyue not han

------> 廣府民系 - 维基百科，自由的百科全书

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

The non-Han admixture from Cantonese is not just Baiyue.

 

[Wholegrain]

You know what I find funny is that even your own Chinese wiki editted that Cantonese are malaysians or baiyue not han

------> 廣府民系 - 维基百科，自由的百科全书

I find it even more funny that someone was editing the article a few hours ago to add that information without any sources, AKA your troll account.

http://zh.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=廣府民系&diff=29235298&oldid=29235049

 

[ManUNITEDglory]

The non-Han admixture from Cantonese is not just Baiyue.

South Chinese are mixture of North Han and Southern ethnic minorities. Cantonese are basically no different to Southern Chinese in the same way Southern Indians from India all have heavy North Indian admixture from paternal lines ( aside from the low caste )

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

Our old history book stated that north point of Van Lang reached to Dongding Lake in Mainland China.

How many times you need to pull out this crappy map? 

South Chinese are mixture of North Han and Southern ethnic minorities. Cantonese are basically no different to Southern Chinese in the same way Southern Indians from India all have heavy North Indian admixture from paternal lines ( aside from the low caste )

Not all South Chinese are same, some South Chinese are only "South Chinese" by culture, yet they are genetically North Chinese.