Hindi speakers in USA is less than telugus, Punjabis, Bengalis and Tamils

[Advaitagrata]

Greek Indika has nothing to do with Tamils, Indians and Tamil are 2 different races, Tamils were referred as Dramiza by Greeks much before the Aryan Sanskrit Dravida

South India was known to the ancient Greek and Roman geographers as Damirica or Limurike. Periplus Maris Erithroei (Periplus of the Eritrean Sea) in the second or third century AD described the maritime route followed by Greek ships sailing to the South Indian ports: “Then follow Naoura and Tundis, the first marts of Limurike and after these Mouziris and Nelkunda, the seats of government.â€

Dramila, Dravida and Damirica indicated the territory. Then it was applied to the people living in the territory and the language they spoke, in the local parlance Tamil and Tamil Nadu or Tamilakam.

The Mediterraneans or Dravidians were associated with the ancient Sumerian civilizations of Mesopotamia and of Elam (southern Iran).

http://www.israel-a-history-of.com/dravidians-indians-and-sumerians.html

Limurike mentioned in the Eritrean sea scrolls indeed referred to south India. Its reasonable to assume its a corruption of Damirica and Damiza which comes from Dravida.

But the same scroll also mentions Ganges and North India and the vibrant trade between the Ganges and the Limurike. They also talk about "Thina" (China) from which silk comes to the north India and from there is brought to the south.

This indicates that "Damirica" or "Damiza" was derived from the Sanskrit "dravida".

This can also be evidenced by the fact that they scroll mention the "Kiratas" , savages who's nose are flattened (North east Indians with 'asian' features) who live east of 'Desarene'. (Dasarna is also mentioned in the Mahabharata). The Same Mahabharata also mentioned the Kirata and its a Sanskrit word for people who live in the Mountains.

So its pretty clear that their use of the word "Damirica" or "Damiza" comes from the Sanskrit Dravida.

 

[manlion]

Pali and Prakrit has "Ayya puta" which comes from the sanskrit "Arya Putra" , so its pretty clear that the root is Sanskrit and not tamil.

Same with Tami "Iyengar" which comes from "Ayyangar" (Arya-var in sanskrit) or "Ayyangaru" in telugu.

I will look into the Eritrean sea scrolls and comment on that later.

Iyangar means one who has under gone the 5 sacraments (5 - ai , sacraments - angam)

We call Sri Vaishnavas as 'Iyengars'. The word Iyengar can be understood as 'one with five parts'. Perhaps, Pancha Samskaram gives us the name Iyengar.

http://www.angelfire.com/de/bhakthimargam/faq2samash.html

BTW Ayya is derived from Tamil ayan (aiyan) which either means respected one or refers to brahma

what is the meaning of the word 'ayan'? Well, there are different meanings of this unique word.

• The path through which the sun travels in the daytime is called 'Ayan'
• In Tamil: 'Ayan' is the name of Brahma, the Creator.
  http://www.sarbadhikari.com/ayan/ayanmng.htm

 

[Advaitagrata]

Iyangar means one who has under gone the 5 sacraments (5 - ai , sacraments - angam)

http://www.angelfire.com/de/bhakthimargam/faq2samash.html

BTW Ayya is derived from Tamil ayan (aiyan) which either means respected one or refers to brahma

what is the meaning of the word 'ayan'? Well, there are different meanings of this unique word.

• The path through which the sun travels in the daytime is called 'Ayan'
• In Tamil: 'Ayan' is the name of Brahma, the Creator.
  http://www.sarbadhikari.com/ayan/ayanmng.htm

The Tamil Aiyan comes from the sanskrit Aryan.

"Angam" means Body, not "sacraments". Both in Tamil and Sanskrit. e.g. Tamil "Nattuvangam" for dance which means "Natta+Angam" i.e Dance +body. (ironically, both from sanskrit)

Sanskrit for 5 is "Panch". Tamil for 5 is Anju which is derived from the sanskrit "panch". 'Ai" can be used as a prefix for five.

So putting together means "5 body or 5 body parts" makes no sense.


The Tamil Chola king was called "Arya Chakravarti" and one of the kings of Sri Lanaka who was a decedent of the chola's was called " Singai Arya Sekaran".

Also wanted to put in something about "Ayan" which you claimed was Tamil.

Look at the world "Narayan".

It means "Nar + ayan" or the supreme being that rests on Water. And that is Sanskrit.

 

[manlion]

Limurike mentioned in the Eritrean sea scrolls indeed referred to south India. Its reasonable to assume its a corruption of Damirica and Damiza which comes from Dravida..

can you back it up academically ?

 

[Advaitagrata]

can you back it up academically ?

ok.

 

[manlion]

The Tamil Aiyan comes from the sanskrit Aryan.

"Angam" means Body, not "sacraments". Both in Tamil and Sanskrit. e.g. Tamil "Nattuvangam" for dance which means "Natta+Angam" i.e Dance +body. (ironically, both from sanskrit)

Sanskrit for 5 is "Panch". Tamil for 5 is Anju which is derived from the sanskrit "panch". 'Ai" can be used as a prefix for five.

So putting together means "5 body or 5 body parts" makes no sense.

The Tamil Chola king was called "Arya Chakravarti" and one of the kings of Sri Lanaka who was a decedent of the chola's was called " Singai Arya Sekaran".

Also wanted to put in something about "Ayan" which you claimed was Tamil.

Look at the world "Narayan".

It means "Nar + ayan" or the supreme being that rests on Water. And that is Sanskrit.

Typical Hindutva sanghi giving everything a Sankrit twist

Iyengar refers to one who is undergone the five attributes of sacrament (Sankrit - Pancha samskara) (Tamil - Aindu angangal) and has no connection to "Sanskrit "Arya Var" became "Ayyavaru" in Telugu"

BTW 5 Tamil is ai (as in aithu) not anju.

As for the rest nattuvagam and Arya Chakaravarthi give it a rest for another debate

 

[Advaitagrata]

Typical Hindutva sanghi giving everything a Sankrit twist

Iyengar refers to one who is undergone the five attributes of sacrament (Sankrit - Pancha samskara) (Tamil - Aindu angangal) and has no connection to "Sanskrit "Arya Var" became "Ayyavaru" in Telugu"

BTW 5 Tamil is ai (as in aithu) not anju.

As for the rest nattuvagam and Arya Chakaravarthi give it a rest for another debate

Rubbish from a Sri Lankan tamil migrant who does not even know tamil, much less sanskrit and is attempting to teach me both.

I am done with teaching a fool like you.

The same tamil revisionist who kicked out the Iyengar from his homeland now wants to teach others how their name came about

Iyengar comes from the original Telugu variant of Aiyan (Aiyan + Garu). The first Aiyangaru was the Tatacharyas who were gurus to the kings of the Vijayanagar Empire.

They were honorific-ally referred to as Iyengars or Iyengaru. Even today the Kanchipuram Tatacharyas are called "Iyengars" as a honorific Kanchipuram traditions.



OTOH, Aindu angangal in Tamil would mean 5 body parts

Since the Pancha Samskaram has very little to do with body parts, it would be stupid to call it that.

In any case, since it already has a Sanskrit name, why the hell would anybody want to give it a Tamil name ? RIP logic.

Best part is that the oldest known Iyengar was Kandhaadai Ramanuja Ayyangaar who did not even have the Pancha Samskaram and did not even wear the sacred thread.

 

[Sharky]

Night here are some slaves in South India who oppose the opposition to Hindi. Time to kick them out along with everyone who wants to have Hindi as one language. We are happy with our mother tongue and English. Don't impose your shitty uncultured hindi language on us.

 

[Advaitagrata]

Night here are some slaves in South India who oppose the opposition to Hindi. Time to kick them out along with everyone who wants to have Hindi as one language. We are happy with our mother tongue and English. Don't impose your shitty uncultured hindi language on us.

Also we oppose the Italian slaves who oppose the opposition to pasta.

Time to kick them out too along with everyone who wants to eat only pasta. Time to promote sambar rice and stop with the shitty uncultured pasta and cheese on us.

 

[Sharky]

Also we oppose the Italian slaves who oppose the opposition to pasta.

Time to kick them out too along with everyone who wants to eat only pasta. Time to promote sambar rice and stop with the shitty uncultured pasta and cheese on us.

I agree kick them out as well. I hate pasta anyway. Risotto is better. While kicking them out kick all the cow urine drinkers and admirers as well.

 

[manlion]

Rubbish from a Sri Lankan tamil migrant who does not even know tamil, much less sanskrit and is attempting to teach me both.

I am done with teaching a fool like you.

The same tamil revisionist who kicked out the Iyengar from his homeland now wants to teach others how their name came about

Iyengar comes from the original Telugu variant of Aiyan (Aiyan + Garu). The first Aiyangaru was the Tatacharyas who were gurus to the kings of the Vijayanagar Empire.

They were honorific-ally referred to as Iyengars or Iyengaru. Even today the Kanchipuram Tatacharyas are called "Iyengars" as a honorific Kanchipuram traditions.

Typical sanghi when lose an argument, get person, what an insult to learn your religion from a non Hindu

Aiyangars are Sri Vaisnavites , whose origin is Tamilnadu , to claim they originated from Telugu (aiyan + garu) is a fanciful assumption.

OTOH, Aindu angangal in Tamil would mean 5 body parts

Since the Pancha Samskaram has very little to do with body parts, it would be stupid to call it that.

In any case, since it already has a Sanskrit name, why the hell would anybody want to give it a Tamil name ? RIP logic.

Best part is that the oldest known Iyengar was Kandhaadai Ramanuja Ayyangaar who did not even have the Pancha Samskaram and did not even wear the sacred thread.

What you being posting reflects your Hindutva sanghi mindset - a single-minded nonacademic attempts to derive every word Tamil, as Sanskrit. Aiya is Dravidian to equate it with Sanskrit Arya or Pali Ajja is mischief.

FYI, Pancha Samkaram has nothing to do with limbs/body parts, - it refers to the 5 sacraments an Aiyangar undergoes

They are :

1. Thapam – To emboss the impressions of heated Sankha and ChakrA on the arms (near the shoulders).

2. Urdhva Pundram – To wear the dvAdasa Urdhva pundram (12 Thiruman & Srichoornam)

3. Namam: The AchAryA adds the name ‘DASAN’ at the end of the disciples name, to indicate that he is forever the servant of Lord Sriman NArAyanA and Bhagavad RAmAnujA. He becomes a ‘RAMANUJA DASAN’. This is highly important.

4. Manthram – To get the initiation of “Rahasya Traya MantrAs” – Thirumantram, Dvayam and charama slokam.

5. YAgnA SamskAram:

http://www.srissannanswamy.org/new/samashrayanam/

Best part is that the oldest known Iyengar was Kandhaadai Ramanuja Ayyangaar who did not even have the Pancha Samskaram and did not even wear the sacred thread.

He didnt wear a brahmin thread as he wasnt from the brahmin caste. Pancha samkaram (Aiyangar) has nothing to do with the brahmin caste. As a disciple of Manavala mamuni, he must have had his 5 sacraments from his guru to be linked to the Sri Vaisnava (SV) spiritual lineage.

http://www.ramanuja.org/sv/bhakti/archives/aug95/0016.html

Do you have evidence to substantiate your claim that Kandhaadai Ramanuja Ayyangaar didnt undergo the 5 sacraments (pancha Samskaram) ?

Can you support your theory on "ayyangaru" with reference to standard Sri Vaisnava Telugu classics (e.g Telugu Maha Pancha kavyas) as to when the honorific came into usage ?

Finally, the first known SV to have attached the honorific Aiyangar were Tamils not Telugus

Note : Sri Vaisnavism is based on the Pancha Ratra Agama and Padma Purana text , which states Pancha samskaram is mandatory for a Sri Vaisnavite/Aiyanggar

"tApa: puNDras-tathA nAma mantrO yAga-S-cha panchama:
amee vai pancha-samskArA: pAramaikAntya-hEtava:"

Only through samasharayanam/pancha samskaram, one is linked to the Sri Vaisnava lineage and eligible to be a Sri Vaishnava. If he did not get his pancha samskaram , then she/he cannot be a SV /Guru or an Aiyangar

Ramanuja the 10th AD expounder of SV had his pancha samskaram in Madurantakam

https://geethavasudevan.wordpress.com/2010/12/25/pancha-samskara-utsavam/

 

[kvpak]

Indian constitution was drafted by Indians from all parts of India but who were educated by the British in English. So its only natural that it was drafted in English.

Only English, and No other single language could be used in constitution drafting because most members did not know others mother tongue.

All Indian languages however have roots in SANSKRIT and that is our common root.

NJust because a lie is repeated a 1000 times, it does not become fact. It has been established in no uncertain terms Tamil does not owe anything to Sanskrit. For example, see the writings of Professor Dr. George Hart of University of Ca;ifornia. He has a Ph.D. in sanskrit from Harvard.

Only Tamil has purged itself of Sanskrit, because of christian missionary efforts in creating a split.

Total number of Sanskrit related words in the ancient Tamil literature (about 2000 years old) is less than 30.

Ironically the term "Dravidian" itself comes from Sanskrit

No. Read this article and educate yourself.

Origin of the Words Aryan and Dravidan (by Inia Pandian),

Aryan invasion of Indian subcontinent

It was not aryan invasion, it was Aryan illegal immigration. Aryanns did not come with swords but with their cattle looking for grazing lands and settled

 

[MagicMarker]

Total number of Sanskrit related words in the ancient Tamil literature (about 2000 years old) is less than 30.

Aryanns did not come with swords but with their cattle looking for grazing lands and settled

This few line is the only one of any value in your post.

The OLDEST man mentioned in Tamil literature is Rishi Agastya who is also mentioned in the Rg. Vedas and has written some of the verses in the Vedas. He is also mentioned in the Mahabharata.

The OLDEST work in Tamil is the Agattiyam, written by the same Rishi.

The same Rishi also wrote Agathiya Samhita in Sanskrit.

The name Agasthiya itself is a Sanskrit name. It means "equal" and comes from the fact that during Shiva's marriage, since all the Rishi's and the god's came to the north to attend the wedding and it tilted the balance, Agastya was asked to go to the south to Balance it, since he alone was "Equal" to the rest of the Rishis.

His wife was Lopamudra , who was a princess of Vidarbha (middle India). She too has written n the Rg. Veda.

The second oldest book in Tamil is the "TOLKAPPIYAM" which comes from Tonmai + Kavyam, which is half in Sanskrit. It means "ancient+ poetry" i.e. Words of old.

The time line of this age is called a "Sangam" which is again a sanskrit word, used quite a lot by Buddha when he formed his own Sangam.

The very first line of their third oldest book of poems "Thirukurral" has multiple words of sanskrit in it.

"Akara Mudhala Ezhuththellaam Aadhi, Bagavan Mudhatre Ulaku "

"Akara" has the same meaning in sanskrit, Pali, and Tamil. Aadhi is also a sanskrit word, so is Bagavan and so is Ulaku. All of the Sanskrit words.

In fact, Both sanskrit and Tamil have the Alphabets in the same order .

It starts form Ah , Aah...and goes to ooh. And the consonants also start with Ka and goes on.

This is same for every other Indian language.

The only Letter unique to tamil is Zha .



Finally are you seriously telling us that "aryans" crossed over the Himalayan ranges with Cows ?



Also I am tired of having this same debate again and again. All of these has been debated earlier at least twice, and I am not going to do it a third time.

 

[kvpak]

The name Agasthiya itself is a Sanskrit name. It means "equal" and comes from the fact that during Shiva's marriage, since all the Rishi's and the god's came to the north to attend the wedding and it tilted the balance, Agastya was asked to go to the south to Balance it, since he alone was "Equal" to the rest of the Rishis.

If your argument is based on mythology, I sm not interested in furthering the conversation. It shoud be based on linguistics.

The time line of this age is called a "Sangam" which is again a sanskrit word, used quite a lot by Buddha when he formed his own Sangam.

It shows your uttter ignorance. The word "Sangam" was never used in the literature of Third Tamil Academy (Third sangam). It was first used in the 9th Century.

"Akara" has the same meaning in sanskrit, Pali, and Tamil. Aadhi is also a sanskrit word, so is Bagavan and so is Ulaku. All of the Sanskrit words.

If two similar words ae in sanskrit and Tamil, it does not mean it is of Sanskrit origin. Sanskrit borrowed Thousand of Tamil words

 

[MagicMarker]

If your argument is based on mythology, I sm not interested in furthering the conversation. It shoud be based on linguistics.

LOL.... its not Mythology if its mentioned in books

It shows your uttter ignorance. The word "Sangam" was never used in the literature of Third Tamil Academy (Third sangam). It was first used in the 9th Century.

So ? Why is the Sanskrit word "Sangam" used to describe Tamil period ?

If two similar words ae in sanskrit and Tamil, it does not mean it is of Sanskrit origin. Sanskrit borrowed Thousand of Tamil words

LOL..... you just admitted that there are THOUSANDS of words that are common between Sanskrit and Tamil

Only the Oldest written work in Tamil is the Agastyam and the same Agastya is mentioned in the Vedas which is far older.