HAL Hands Over Tejas Jets To IAF

[SpArK]

 

[Superboy]

Yes as per reports but knowing HAL and its work culture delays are expected

We shall see in 10 days.

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

You would know. You have been flying one for seven years.

And youve been eating pig shit since your birth.

What matters is the difficult part is done. 20 years of effort, despite sanctions and despite starting from scratch, we have a jet that is better than the m2k and mig_29s that were top of the range just 15 years back, that us better than the block-3 of the rival jf-17 and simply outclasses the existing blocks.

All we need is to ramp up to 16 per year and we will have about 70-80 mark 1 jets by 2020, and will have achieved parity with the paf fleet of say 120 jf-17s which would be a generation behind in terms of airframe, engine, radar or electronics

 

[Dazzler]

Not at all, contrary to you claims which were based on nothing but bias on "past performance", I pointed to the current reality of the project that you are ignoring, which is that the fighter will be inducted within this or at least next year.
Just as I showed you the reality about what is the revolutionary part of the project, which you ignored as well in your statements.

So if you want comment on something, you should at least put things in the right perspective and then get to a conclusion!



Another telling show of ignoring realities!

If the Russians would not trust Indian manufacturing, why are they offering joint production of their helicopter and civil airliners from India for other export markets? Why are they allowing parts of the Su 30 produced in India, to be offered for Su 30 export customers?
If the French would not trust Indian manufacturing, why are they keen to divert wing production for export Rafales to Reliance, IRST / FSO production to Samtel, Damocles LDP, parts of the AESA and avionics to BEL, large parts of the M88 engine to HAL?
If the world don't trust India as a manufacturing hub, why is the ammount of production parts diverted to India from Airbus, Boeing, BAE, Sikorsky, LM, Rafael, AW, Rolls Royce, GE... growing every year?

Lol, so the world is restless to do business in India right. You love to wage war with keyboard I can see but you miss or ignore the reality and that is the list of failed or underperforming projects piped upon one another.

Regarding manufacturing parts for aviation giants, this is such a poor example that's not even laughable. Kamra and other manufacturing units are making Boeing and Airbus parts for good 10+ years, they are qualified with iso xx standards yet, still unable to undertake a complex project such as aircraft without help.

We have to admit where our limitations are and acknowledge help from those who do so. Seems like its not the culture in India.

 

[sancho]

Lol, so the world is restless to do business in India right.

Well if you missed that, you are ignoring far more realites than I thought.

You love to wage war with keyboard I can see but you miss or ignore the reality and that is the list of failed or underperforming projects piped upon one another.

No, I just try to help you undstand things, by pointing to the reality, to get you beyond the obvious bias you show. And I clearly stated that LCA for example was done in a bad manner, which is why that project suffered a lot. But at the end of the day, it doesn't matter, since it never was intendet to be a prime fighter for IAF, just as we have alternative for the failed parts. LCA with GE engines and EL 2032 in fact might end up to be better than it would had been with indigenous puls doppler and Kaveri engine. The fighter itself was developed with good potential in mind, which will be clearly visible in the FOC version. A low RCS, modern integrated EW capabilities, HOBS, BVR and guided strike capabilities, together with a good handling, will make it more than capable to hold it's own in the region, EVEN IF not all the development goals will be met in the MK1.

Regarding manufacturing parts for aviation giants, this is such a poor example that's not even laughable. Kamra and other manufacturing units are making Boeing and Airbus parts for good 10+ years, they are qualified with iso xx standards yet, still unable to undertake a complex project such as aircraft without help.

Great, it's important for the region that Pakistans economy is growing too, but that still doesn't make it in any way comparable to Indian defence industry, the huge interest of foreign companies not only to sell us arms and techs, but to divert large manufacturing parts, R&D centers, as well as JVs with and increasing rate of Indian defence companies. But as I already showed, that's just another reality that you like to ignore.

We have to admit where our limitations are and acknowledge help from those who do so. Seems like its not the culture in India.

Wrong again, if there wouldn't be such a culture, we wouldn't team up with Russia for FGFA, MTA or Brahmos, with Israel for Barak 8, with France for Maitri SAM, we wouldn't had asked MBB to help in designing Dhruv, we wouldn't have asked Elta to help with the LCAs radar, or Airbus with NLCA. Our mistake in LCA project at least, was that we didn't tried it from the start, while we clearly have and are doing it better in other developments.
The important part however is, that we have to take the unique advantage of such high tech joint developments, while still aiming on being self sufficient at the lower end. And if you look at LCA or Dhruv/Rudra/LCH/LUH now, with design, materials, avionics, EW and even the first weapon developments well on the way to provide us this indigenous base, it's pretty hard to deny the progress we made in the last at least 5 years.
Could we have done it better? No doubt! There are reasons why I am the number one critic of DRDO on PDF, but is it as bad as you would like it to be? Not at all!

 

[fockewulf190]

Yes as per reports but knowing HAL and its work culture delays are expected

Hi Lone Ranger.

Why always blame only HAL? Our Jingoist Journalism never portray the real picture that goes between HAL, Foreign OEMs, Other RnD centers (ADA, ADE, DRDO), Certifying Centers (CRI, CEMILAC), Political Interferences (Unions), Bureaucratic RED tapisms (here delays) and customer (who are pampered to the hilt with regards to indigenized platforms). I don't say HAL is perfect but well they seldom open their mouth speaking against others when delays are concern. Sometimes I feel like the story of Nebucadnazzer with Daniel where in the former asked the later what was his dreams and to also tell him the meaning of the dream, paying a token money for samosa and expecting a chicken tandoori.

Regards

 

[Dazzler]

Well if you missed that, you are ignoring far more realites than I thought.



No, I just try to help you undstand things, by pointing to the reality, to get you beyond the obvious bias you show. And I clearly stated that LCA for example was done in a bad manner, which is why that project suffered a lot. But at the end of the day, it doesn't matter, since it never was intendet to be a prime fighter for IAF, just as we have alternative for the failed parts. LCA with GE engines and EL 2032 in fact might end up to be better than it would had been with indigenous puls doppler and Kaveri engine. The fighter itself was developed with good potential in mind, which will be clearly visible in the FOC version. A low RCS, modern integrated EW capabilities, HOBS, BVR and guided strike capabilities, together with a good handling, will make it more than capable to hold it's own in the region, EVEN IF not all the development goals will be met in the MK1.



Great, it's important for the region that Pakistans economy is growing too, but that still doesn't make it in any way comparable to Indian defence industry, the huge interest of foreign companies not only to sell us arms and techs, but to divert large manufacturing parts, R&D centers, as well as JVs with and increasing rate of Indian defence companies. But as I already showed, that's just another reality that you like to ignore.



Wrong again, if there wouldn't be such a culture, we wouldn't team up with Russia for FGFA, MTA or Brahmos, with Israel for Barak 8, with France for Maitri SAM, we wouldn't had asked MBB to help in designing Dhruv, we wouldn't have asked Elta to help with the LCAs radar, or Airbus with NLCA. Our mistake in LCA project at least, was that we didn't tried it from the start, while we clearly have and are doing it better in other developments.
The important part however is, that we have to take the unique advantage of such high tech joint developments, while still aiming on being self sufficient at the lower end. And if you look at LCA or Dhruv/Rudra/LCH/LUH now, with design, materials, avionics, EW and even the first weapon developments well on the way to provide us this indigenous base, it's pretty hard to deny the progress we made in the last at least 5 years.
Could we have done it better? No doubt! There are reasons why I am the number one critic of DRDO on PDF, but is it as bad as you would like it to be? Not at all!

Your posts are a laughing stock really, I wonder if you are losing your cool. Read it again and find the relevance do let me know. All I see is same old rhetoric you are famous for.

For example dhruv, rudra, lch luh bla bla. Continue your keyboard war as your comments are a source of fun for me.

 

[Abingdonboy]

For example dhruv, rudra, lch luh bla bla. Continue your keyboard war as your comments are a source of fun for me.

What's wrong with the Dhruv, Rudra or LCH?

Your problem is you are so comvinced every Indian project (Arjun, LCA, LCH, ALH etc) is a failure that you are not aware of the reality.....

 

[Echo_419]

What's wrong with the Dhruv, Rudra or LCH?

Your problem is you are so comvinced every Indian project (Arjun, LCA, LCH, ALH etc) is a failure that you are not aware of the reality.....

Not his fault

 

[DeathInvader]

Please Note the * as it would denote how tejas project help build Indian Aviation Industry.

@sancho @Abingdonboy @500 @Oscar @Echo_419 @SpArK @MilSpec

The thought for Tejas Started in 1983 and there was no funding at that point from the government. France (Mirage-2000) and Germany assisted in the aerodynamic configurations. Delta wing design was the primary candidate for a prototype and it was later chosen too. Two protoypes were built as in 1990 a government commission found several deficiencies in critical technology areas and it ensured that further issues had been resolved. In 1992, GOI finally provided funding for the Project. In 1995, the first Tejas rolled out but issues with flight control and difficulty in manufacturing of composite frame kept the Plane grounded. (* R&D Manufacturing of composite frame) (*R&D Flight Control)

In 1998 as a result of sanctions, the project further got delayed as sale of GE-404 to India was put on hold and Lockhead Martin too ended its assistance in flight control system. The day India got sanctioned our engineers were in Lockhead Martin's office working on software integration when they were asked to leave the premises and were not even allowed to take the designs which were ready to be tested. This designs were built from the scratch again and this further delayed the project by 2 years.

Further Problems were also detected in crucial weaponisation phase for Multi-Mode Radar that was to be fitted in the Nose con. LRDE and HAL then collaborated to built radar (Pulse mode) system for LCA (*R&D in radar technologies.)

This resulted in ingenuously attempting to manufacture Jet engine. (*R&D jet engine). Please note that Kaveri was not entirely a failure. It just couldn't generate enough thrust. It did have severe problems But further maturity in the industry would again kick start this project. Maybe under a new name but this R&D is never going to go waste.

The first technology demonstrator (TD-1) flew in 2001, Since then, Tejas has gone into immense changes for avionics etc. PV-1 and PV-2),
these aircraft were used to test and verify the advanced technologies planned for the Tejas fleet.

in 2006 more prototypes were tested.

LCA was important for us, as lessons learnt from it and R&D would have immensely boosted the Aviation industry in India. So for those imbecile minds that think we wasted 32 years then please know that 32 years were not wasted on a single aircraft but they were used to gain knowledge and experience by building a single aircraft. Learning the initial ABCDs is always difficult then wiring an entire passage.
The ancillary and R& D infrastructure developed from the LCA program could be reused in these other programs leading to further development of the aerospace industry in India.
AMCA , MTA (Transport) , LTA (Transport), LAH


We also gained experience in Planning and coordination between hundreds of defense laboratories, ministries, universities, public sector companies, private firms and overseas collaborators. This becomes more significant considering the typical bureaucratic hurdles,inertia, infighting, turf battles and scientific egos that are typical of the Indian research establishment.

Now finally, more advanced and more powerful Tejas Mk-2 would be finally be seen. Also I have read from a source that NLCA too would have catapult assisted take off. Check this link out for further details
India needs the support of US Navy to complete crucial trials of the naval version,NLCA

 

[Dazzler]

What's wrong with the Dhruv, Rudra or LCH?

Your problem is you are so comvinced every Indian project (Arjun, LCA, LCH, ALH etc) is a failure that you are not aware of the reality.....

Yes they are, every single one of them. There is a reason behind it. Never mind.

 

[kaku1]

Yes they are, every single one of them. There is a reason behind it. Never mind.

Lol,, okey.

 

[NKVD]

Yes they are, every single one of them. There is a reason behind it. Never mind.

So, That's Mean Even Our Failed Indigenous Projects are Superior To your Best Thatz You are Trying Convey, Anyway Thanks Pal

 

[N3oN]

Lol.. This is not discussion .. It just a arrogance. Its laughable if somebody says jf17 is better than LCA even if can't fire bvr missiles and don't have a discent avionics or even a jammer.. And now plz don't rant about jf 17 blk 2.

 

[MilSpec]

Your posts are a laughing stock really, I wonder if you are losing your cool. Read it again and find the relevance do let me know. All I see is same old rhetoric you are famous for.

For example dhruv, rudra, lch luh bla bla. Continue your keyboard war as your comments are a source of fun for me.

I have seen your rhetoric, which barely makes any sense. The bottom line is your industrial o/p is close to zero, and that is real reason for all the heartburn that you consistently display...