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Good Guinness, deliver us! Israel demolishes Arab village 38 times

[:::~Spartacus~:::];3059405 said:
and what about the muslims who were kicked from india, are you too much in bed with india now a days that you have to ignore the other side of the story?

there is always an opposite reaction to every action

in any case we arnt not discussing india pakistan here, we are talking about your illegal jew arse zionist occupation, a state born by illegal immegrants who had come after getting spanked by europeans

i am not going to discus much in this topic. but let me say this. WW2 ended and then UNbecame the sole organization that recognized individual nations. and Isreal is a nation and its their laws. If you do not abide by that, then its good that you migrate to other places where you can live with peace rather than get your arse whoped time and again
 
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The White Paper proposed abolishing the principle of the Jewish National Home in the sense that Jews would no longer be able to immigrate there. The rest was sophistry.
The principle of Jewish National home doesn't mean that all Jews all over the world have to immigrate to Palestine in order for the Jewish National home principle be fulfilled ( in fact there are still many Jews all over the world who didn't immigrate to Israel ).
Limiting the number of Jews who would immigrate to Palestine doesn't mean that such principle wouldn't be fulfilled.
How was the rest sophistry?
Oh and for the demolition of Palestinian homes and infrastructure :
http://www.defence.pk/forums/world-...emolishes-palestinian-homes-near-jericho.html
http://www.defence.pk/forums/world-affairs/81252-israel-orders-demolition-88-homes-e-jerusalem.html
http://www.defence.pk/forums/world-...lishes-homes-classroom-west-bank-village.html
 
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In any debate at university, when a Zionist was out of arguments, those three magic words were invoked to shut down the conversation with an outraged, “are you saying Israel doesn’t have the right to exist??”
I can see that.

Of course you couldn’t challenge Israel’s right to exist – that was like saying you were negating a fundamental Jewish right to have…rights, with all manner of Holocaust guilt thrown in for effect.
The author is conflating the issue of Palestine as the Jewish National Home with the Holocaust.

The cold-blooded program of ethnically cleansing Europe of its Jewish population has been so callously and opportunistically utilized to justify the ethnic cleansing of the Palestinian Arab nation -
This is make-believe.


What a fantastical idea, this notion that a bunch of rank outsiders from another continent could appropriate an existing, populated nation for themselves –
Except that the Jews were following the wishes of the last Ottoman Caliph.

There is only one possible conclusion here: given the indisputable facts rather than empty propaganda, the Jews of Israel are entirely guiltless for having settled and created their Jewish State.


But what is truly frightening is the psychological manipulation of the masses into believing that Palestinians are somehow dangerous – “terrorists” intent on “driving Jews into the sea.”
What of the Charters of Hamas and the PLO? What of the vow of their leaderships that if they have their way not one Jew will remain in Palestine?


Then there is the language that preserves "Israel's Right To Exist" unquestioningly: anything that invokes the Holocaust, anti-Semitism and the myths about historic Jewish rights to the land bequeathed to them by the Almighty – as though God was in the real-estate business.
The return of Jews to Israel can be justified on both religious and secular grounds. Note that the ultimate reasons offered by Arabs for destroying the Jews of Palestine is entirely religious or race-related.

the premise is wrong...Israel is the problem...Israel is the Occupier and Oppressor; Palestinians are the Occupied and Oppressed.
Except it's ALL BALONEY!

What about ALL the land, property and rights?
What about all the land Jews dearly bought in Palestine and elsewhere from Arabs?


Israel craves recognition of its “right to exist.”
For the Arabs to cease their genocidal battle they have to acknowledge - publicly to the Israelis as well as privately to themselves - that the existence of Israel is morally correct and just.

Strip away the spin and the gloss, and you quickly realize that Israel doesn’t even have the basics of a normal state. After 64 years, it doesn’t have borders.
Borders are determined between neighbors. Peace is the solution.
Israel is a failed experiment. It is on life-support – pull those three plugs and it is a cadaver, living only in the minds of some seriously deluded foreigners who thought they could pull off the heist of the century.
Pakistanis can visit and see for themselves how much of a "cadaver" Israel is.

Naysayers can take a hike. Our patience is wearing thinner than the walls of the hovels that Palestinian refugees have called “home” for three generations in their purgatory camps...These universally exploited refugees are entitled to the nice apartments – the ones that have pools downstairs and a grove of palm trees outside the lobby.
Only "Palestinians" are defined as refugees in the third generation.

The truth of the matter? She's descended from rejectionists who violently revolted. In my opinion and in Ottoman law, they thus surrendered their civil and property rights. The welfare they receive is a mercy and not their right.

At this particular precipice in the 21st century, we are all, universally, Palestinian – undoing this wrong is a test of our collective humanity, and nobody has the right to sit this one out.
Yes. She's just on the wrong side of the battle, that's all.

Palestine will be less painful than Israel ever was.
A population militarized and imbued with hatred from kindergarten will doubtless become a threat to all its neighbors.

The principle of Jewish National home doesn't mean that all Jews all over the world have to immigrate to Palestine...Limiting the number of Jews who would immigrate to Palestine doesn't mean that such principle wouldn't be fulfilled.
How was the rest sophistry?
Mandate Palestine's primary purpose was to serve as a refuge for the world's oppressed Jews. The experience of the White Paper at preventing Europe's Jews from immigrating during WWII so they perished in the Holocaust instead proved conclusively that this role couldn't be fulfilled with the Brits as Trustee and would be abrogated with murder and violence at the hands of the Arabs. Independence was the only responsible route.

Note that it was the VIOLENCE OF THE ARABS which compelled the Brits to issue the White Paper. When you hear Arab claims that they had nothing to do with the Holocaust, why don't you keep that in mind?

Oh and for the demolition of Palestinian homes and infrastructure :
More context-free stuff, or at least links provided without context. Why didn't you learn from the OP that you can't trust or ethically prove anything that way?
 
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i am not going to discus much in this topic. but let me say this. WW2 ended and then UNbecame the sole organization that recognized individual nations. and Isreal is a nation and its their laws. If you do not abide by that, then its good that you migrate to other places where you can live with peace rather than get your arse whoped time and again

A number of UN members do not recognise Israel. In any event if the UN said milk was black it would not make milk black. Oh btw Israel hardly cares what the UN says anyway
 
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A number of UN members do not recognise Israel. In any event if the UN said milk was black it would not make milk black. Oh btw Israel hardly cares what the UN says anyway
Do you have a constructive suggestion as to what Israel should do, then?
 
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More context-free stuff, or at least links provided without context. Why didn't you learn from the OP that you can't trust or ethically prove anything that way?

In my case I am always swaying from Pakistan should recognise Israel all the way to Israel has no right to exist. I must say that article made me move towards the thinking that the Palestinian author is correct Israel has no right to exist

Do you have a constructive suggestion as to what Israel should do, then?

Yep I do. The sooner Israel pushes for genuine 2 nations solution and makes efforts to mend its ties with Muslim countries and I do not mean just lip service and treaties but a genuine dialogue with social events between Jews and Muslims to move forward the better or in due course it may cease to exist with the adversarial position it holds
 
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What about all the land Jews dearly bought in Palestine and elsewhere from Arabs?
Just because Jews bought lands from Arabs doesn't mean that they can form a country in the bought land.
Except that the Jews were following the wishes of the last Ottoman Caliph.

There is only one possible conclusion here: given the indisputable facts rather than empty propaganda, the Jews of Israel are entirely guiltless for having settled and created their Jewish State.
Yeah, the Israelis are guiltless for coming into Palestine, settling and kicking out Palestine and carving their own nation out of Palestinian land.
Mandate Palestine's primary purpose was to serve as a refuge for the world's oppressed Jews. The experience of the White Paper at preventing Europe's Jews from immigrating during WWII so they perished in the Holocaust instead proved conclusively that this role couldn't be fulfilled with the Brits as Trustee and would be abrogated with murder and violence at the hands of the Arabs. Independence was the only responsible route.

Note that it was the VIOLENCE OF THE ARABS which compelled the Brits to issue the White Paper. When you hear Arab claims that they had nothing to do with the Holocaust, why don't you keep that in mind?
That doesn't change the fact that the Israelis violated the White paper of 1939 which was released by Britain.
Violence of Arabs should have been expected, and it was something very typical, how would you react if you had illegal immigrants coming from all over the world to your land and trying to kick you out from your home and establish their own state? Tell me, Solomon2, how would you react if Israel was about to be created in the area where you lived in the USA?
More context-free stuff, or at least links provided without context. Why didn't you learn from the OP that you can't trust or ethically prove anything that way?
See? I told you that you would call anything I bring " BS " and " fake propaganda ", no matter how credible such sources are.
 
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The sooner Israel pushes for genuine 2 nations solution and makes efforts to mend its ties with Muslim countries and I do not mean just lip service and treaties but a genuine dialogue with social events between Jews and Muslims to move forward the better -
In the short period of time between the signing of the Oslo Accords and Arafat's return to hostilities in the Second Intifada I experienced exactly that, both at university and at diplomatic functions I was invited to. The path you suggest has already been tread and its failure was not Israel's fault, nor that of the U.S.

- or in due course it may cease to exist with the adversarial position it holds
Here we have not just a difference of opinion but one of human experience. Basically, in Muslim lands, one has to kowtow to whoever is set in power above you, or else. In the West you know that isn't the case; citizens have rights, and peoples who have become nation-states the means to defend themselves from aggressors.

Which vision do you find superior? Which one are you willing to endorse publicly?
 
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Just because Jews bought lands from Arabs doesn't mean that they can form a country in the bought land.
That has been answered.

Yeah, the Israelis are guiltless for coming into Palestine, settling and kicking out Palestine and carving their own nation out of Palestinian land.
Rewinding the tape back to the beginning does not win you the argument.

That doesn't change the fact that the Israelis violated the White paper of 1939 which was released by Britain.
Irrelevant. The Brits were supposed to administer Palestine as trustee, not as a colonial master. The White Paper was thus legally and morally indefensible - "an act of perfidy", Lloyd George called it, and it was never was never approved by the Palestine Mandates Commission. Critics immediately recognized it as a death sentence upon Europe's Jews since Hitler's intentions were already quite clear even before WWII broke out. This WP was formally rescinded after WWII.

Violence of Arabs should have been expected, and it was something very typical, how would you react if you had illegal immigrants -
Under the Brits and Turks there was no way Jews could occupy land they didn't purchase or wasn't a part of "state" land included for settlement under the Mandate. Arabs in Israel preserve their property rights to the present day.

Tell me, Solomon2, how would you react if -
The reliance on make-believe analogies underscores the fact that Israel represents a reality you are unwilling to face.

See? I told you that you would call anything I bring " BS " and " fake propaganda ", no matter how credible such sources are.
Then you'll have to bring their arguments into the dialogue, rather than just link to them.
 
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That has been answered.
IIRC, no, it hasn't been answered.
Rewinding the tape back to the beginning does not win you the argument.
Huh?
The reliance on make-believe analogies underscores the fact that Israel represents a reality you are unwilling to face.
You clearly evaded my question. I want you to tell me what you would do if Israel was to be formed in a part of US, would you accept it?
Then you'll have to bring their arguments into the dialogue, rather than just link to them.
What arguments are there to be brought? It's a well-known fact, Israel demolishes Palestinian homes in the West Bank and builds settlements there.
 
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In the short period of time between the signing of the Oslo Accords and Arafat's return to hostilities in the Second Intifada I experienced exactly that, both at university and at diplomatic functions I was invited to. The path you suggest has already been tread and its failure was not Israel's fault, nor that of the U.S.

Whatever past failures the status quo is untenable and we can not just give up. Am not really interested or care whose fault it was. It usually is half a dozen of one and six of the other

Here we have not just a difference of opinion but one of human experience. Basically, in Muslim lands, one has to kowtow to whoever is set in power above you, or else. In the West you know that isn't the case; citizens have rights, and peoples who have become nation-states the means to defend themselves from aggressors.

But the west interferes too much in Muslim lands. It's position is not consistent. In the case of Saudi they are supported whereas dictators elsewhere are not.

Which vision do you find superior? Which one are you willing to endorse publicly?

Well anything that results in Jews and Muslims living side by side in Palestine/Israel as we do in the UK. In the UK I have had a Jewish Israeli partner and friend.
 
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Guinness should deliver free beer to both sides and bring friendship and understanding.
 
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