Fakhri Pasha "The Defender of Madina"

[SALMAN F]

@Kaan

You lost a humiliating defeat in Vienna. So that does not count. You controlled the small Balkans which are smaller than Spain and Portugal for much lesser time than the Arabs who controlled it for 800 years. Longer than any other non-European people controlled European lands. Let aside Sicily, Malta, Cyprus, parts of Southern Italy etc.

Well, you seem to have a problem with Arabs going by your logic then.

So yes, no answer.

The Huns were barbarians that contributed to nothing and only lasted for a short time. Besides they were not Turks. What connection do Turkish people have with theme? Nothing.

Do you want me to talk about the ancient Semitic civilizations from Egypt, Mesopotamia, Dilmun, ancient Yemen, ancient Levant, Phonecians that colonized Southern Europe before the Greeks and Romans existed etc. I already told you that you are going to lose that debate.

Besides I am sure that you know that most Turkish people today have little ties to the real Turkic people. Most are indigenous people. Genetic tests prove this by abundance and they don't lie.



Turkish people - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Oh, Arabs created 3 of the 11 largest empires the world have ever seen. We were both conquerors, founders, builders and influenced other people religiously, linguistically, culturally etc.

Yes, if I was an Persian I would detest the Arab Muslim invasion 1400 years ago that changed their entire country and culture forever.

What do you mean if you were persian??

 

[al-Hasani]

What do you mean if you were persian??

That I would be against the Muslim Arab conquest of Persia. As 99% of all Iranians were back then. But they were military conquered and had no say in things. So they had to accept the rule and from there on they gradually accepted Islam. That's how the world was back then. So yes, I have no problem with for instance Spaniards or Portuguese people complaining about being under nearly 800 year old Muslim rule or that now 25% of all Spanish and Portuguese words have Arabic origins let alone all their names of provinces, regions, cities etc.

What is so controversial about that?

 

[Hakan]

@Kaan

You lost a humiliating defeat in Vienna. So that does not count. You controlled the small Balkans which are smaller than Spain and Portugal for much lesser time than the Arabs who controlled it for 800 years. Longer than any other non-European people controlled European lands. Let aside Sicily, Malta, Cyprus, parts of Southern Italy etc.

Well, you seem to have a problem with Arabs going by your logic then.

So yes, no answer.

The Huns were barbarians that contributed to nothing and only lasted for a short time. Besides they were not Turks. What connection do Turkish people have with theme? Nothing.

Do you want me to talk about the ancient Semitic civilizations from Egypt, Mesopotamia, Dilmun, ancient Yemen, ancient Levant, Phonecians that colonized Southern Europe before the Greeks and Romans existed etc. I already told you that you are going to lose that debate.

Besides I am sure that you know that most Turkish people today have little ties to the real Turkic people. Most are indigenous people. Genetic tests prove this by abundance and they don't lie.



Turkish people - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Oh, Arabs created 3 of the 11 largest empires the world have ever seen. We were both conquerors, founders, builders and influenced other people religiously, linguistically, culturally etc.

Yes, if I was an Persian I would detest the Arab Muslim invasion 1400 years ago that changed their entire country and culture forever.

I dont get what you are trying to prove here that arabs are the best or what? If you guys are so good then why did you let the uncivilized, not successful barbaric turks rule you for centuries? Besides it is well known how backwards your GCC is and they don't produce anything in significant quantities except for oil. Saudi Arabias infrastructure can't even match that of the E.U dispite the fact that it is a very wealthy country so either you guys are stupid or lazy because there is no other explanation. thats why you compare your self to other middle eastern countries and not developed countries. Your rulers are corrupt where are your conquers builders founders etc. today? Also if the persians had a nationalist mentallity like you your arab empires would have never existed. Also the Ottomans were fighting with all of the european powers throughout its time which is why it wasn't as large as some of the previous caliphates besides size doesn't matter what matters is the global situation of the time of the empire which is what influences it's size. Anyway you guys had an unfair advantage with the Rashidun caliphate because it was led by the sahabah which paved the way for the coming arab dynaties. It is also well known that the Huns were Turks just look at where they came from, look at their language, their style of warfare, and lifestyle.Yeah they were brutal but what do you expect they were not muslim. the whole point of briging up the Huns was to prove that while you guys were living in tents and the other semites were under roman rule we were free and conquering europe.

That I would be against the Muslim Arab conquest of Persia. As 99% of all Iranians were back then. But they were military conquered and had no say in things. So they had to accept the rule and from there on they gradually accepted Islam. That's how the world was back then. So yes, I have no problem with for instance Spaniards or Portuguese people complaining about being under nearly 800 year old Muslim rule or that now 25% of all Spanish and Portuguese words have Arabic origins let alone all their names of provinces, regions, cities etc.

What is so controversial about that?

So it is wrong if the turks do what the arabs did?

 

[al-Hasani]

Bla. Bla. Bla.

But despite that all the GCC states have a much higher HDI ranking than Turkey, are more prosperous, more safe, more stable, people are more happy, no migrations abroad etc. How can you explain this?

No such things are given in KSA btw.



You like your semi-democracy and we like our system. Let's end it here. We don't claim to follow Western democracy and never have.

@Kaan

You lost a humiliating defeat in Vienna. So that does not count. You controlled the small Balkans which are smaller than Spain and Portugal for much lesser time than the Arabs who controlled it for 800 years. Longer than any other non-European people controlled European lands. Let aside Sicily, Malta, Cyprus, parts of Southern Italy etc.

Well, you seem to have a problem with Arabs going by your logic then.

So yes, no answer.

The Huns were barbarians that contributed to nothing and only lasted for a short time. Besides they were not Turks. What connection do Turkish people have with theme? Nothing.

Do you want me to talk about the ancient Semitic civilizations from Egypt, Mesopotamia, Dilmun, ancient Yemen, ancient Levant, Phonecians that colonized Southern Europe before the Greeks and Romans existed etc. I already told you that you are going to lose that debate.

Besides I am sure that you know that most Turkish people today have little ties to the real Turkic people. Most are indigenous people. Genetic tests prove this by abundance and they don't lie.



Turkish people - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Oh, Arabs created 3 of the 11 largest empires the world have ever seen. We were both conquerors, founders, builders and influenced other people religiously, linguistically, culturally etc.

Yes, if I was an Persian I would detest the Arab Muslim invasion 1400 years ago that changed their entire country and culture forever.

Yes, but as always no word about what started the Arab Revolt in the first place. The same nationalistic policies that you cry about which the Young Turk Movement started. The Arabs of Hijaz have nobody to apologize to and many other Arabs and peoples of the Ottoman Empire (Muslim and non-Muslim) revolted against the Ottomans prior and after that event. Nor was it the Arabs who abolished the Ottoman Empire but themselves. In fact their national hero Ataturk. Nor was it the Arabs that created the Young Turk Movement nor was it the Arabs who made Turkey secular and removed the Arabic alphabet, Sharia law, most of the Arab traces in Ottoman Turkish which was more Arab than Turkic etc.

Besides once again it was the Arabs who fought not the British.



Yet KSA and the GCC is doing better than all other Muslim countries when it come to economy, economic growth, happiness, stability, HDI-Index etc.

Skyscrapers are not built much in KSA. In fact I suspect that Istanbul has more skyscrapers than all of KSA. I think that you are thinking about Dubai.

The ban on women driving, which is not really a ban since there is no law regulating this, is due to cultural reasons and due to some retarded clerics. Most of the people do not support this besides it is going to change very soon which the government has already proclaimed.

Other than that I don't see any major problems. Well, I would like women to have an even bigger role although they are the better students and constantly advancing.

Most Saudi Arabians are comfortable with their system and see no need of rebelling. Just like the Turks who are in favor of Erdogan and voting for him.

Also if you are going to cry about executions and a harsh penalty system then you are picking up the wrong discussion with me since I support it 100%. We have a ZERO tolerance level for criminals which I am happy about. Hence we have one of the lowest crime rates in the world and stability. People feel safe.

Well, and if we had as big a population as you and agricultural lands we would be even better off. Not only that. You need to do some reading about HDI.

Which Arab nations? I already told you that most of the Arab world is NOT blessed with oil and gas.

So had KSA and most other Arab countries. Partially due to the neglect of the Ottomans and later the Brits.

Nobody depends on oil anymore. More than half of KSA's economy is not based on oil and gas anymore and the non-oil/gas sectors grow at a rapid speed each year.

Let me remind you of this earlier post I wrote to you earlier today. You seem to have already forgot it. Let me refresh your memory.

PS: We have many other resources than just oil and gas. In terms of resources we have indeed been blessed. But either you win or lose. That's life. But we can't have it all.



You might take a look at this thread:

KSA Economy News & Discussions

Don't care anymore. Stated my views already and long ago.

 

[al-Hasani]

Anyway let's end it here shall we? I have no problems with Turks or anybody else but if certain users make provocative and one-sided comments and later insults you can expect an reaction. Betrayal is a strong word that I do not like. Since from our point of view we were the ones betrayed 400 years earlier and after the Young Turk Movement gained power.

The past is the past.

I suggest making those posts in the Turkish section next time where you can all call Arab traitors, make one-sided comments and in general stick to one version of the history. I am sure that most Pakistanis, who have an Islamic outlook unlike you Turks, will cheer with you since they were not part of this and don't understand it.

If you make this kind of threads here in the open and when I get tacked by a user and see comments that I disagree with and which are insulting for my people I will react which I did.

Nothing strange about this at all and expected.

 

[airmarshal]

Yes, but as always no word about what started the Arab Revolt in the first place. The same nationalistic policies that you cry about which the Young Turk Movement started. The Arabs of Hijaz have nobody to apologize to and many other Arabs and peoples of the Ottoman Empire (Muslim and non-Muslim) revolted against the Ottomans prior and after that event. Nor was it the Arabs who abolished the Ottoman Empire but themselves. In fact their national hero Ataturk. Nor was it the Arabs that created the Young Turk Movement nor was it the Arabs who made Turkey secular and removed the Arabic alphabet, Sharia law, most of the Arab traces in Ottoman Turkish which was more Arab than Turkic etc.

Besides once again it was the Arabs who fought not the British.



Yet KSA and the GCC is doing better than all other Muslim countries when it come to economy, economic growth, happiness, stability, HDI-Index etc.

Skyscrapers are not built much in KSA. In fact I suspect that Istanbul has more skyscrapers than all of KSA. I think that you are thinking about Dubai.

The ban on women driving, which is not really a ban since there is no law regulating this, is due to cultural reasons and due to some retarded clerics. Most of the people do not support this besides it is going to change very soon which the government has already proclaimed.

Other than that I don't see any major problems. Well, I would like women to have an even bigger role although they are the better students and constantly advancing.

Most Saudi Arabians are comfortable with their system and see no need of rebelling. Just like the Turks who are in favor of Erdogan and voting for him.

Also if you are going to cry about executions and a harsh penalty system then you are picking up the wrong discussion with me since I support it 100%. We have a ZERO tolerance level for criminals which I am happy about. Hence we have one of the lowest crime rates in the world and stability. People feel safe.

@al-Hasani. I meant to mention the Muslim world. Arabs are a part of that. Our downfall, our subjugation is because we are not united. We have so many Muslim countries around the world, but no say in world affairs.

Since this was thread about Ottomans and Arabs, I mentioned Arabs exclusively. Arabs actually fought a British war. This is an indication we are not independent. What exactly did the arabs get evicting Ottoamns? I m not discussing merits of Ottoman rule. It had to come to an end. But I want to say is that since that time, Arabs have been in turmoil. Your enemies have a sound footing in your region.

 

[Hakan]

Anyway let's end it here shall we? I have no problems with Turks or anybody else but if certain users make provocative and one-sided comments and later insults you can expect an reaction. Betrayal is a strong word that I do not like. Since from our point of view we were the ones betrayed 400 years earlier and after the Young Turk Movement gained power.

The past is the past.

I suggest making those posts in the Turkish section next time where you can all call Arab traitors, make one-sided comments and in general stick to one version of the history. I am sure that most Pakistanis, who have an Islamic outlook unlike you Turks, will cheer with you since they were not part of this and don't understand it.

If you make this kind of threads here in the open and when I get tacked by a user and see comments that I disagree with and which are insulting for my people I will react which I did.

Nothing strange about this at all and expected.

This is a historical article which is why it is in the history section and no next time I will not put an ottoman article in the turkish section because the ottomans aren't only for turks they are for all muslims even if you don't agree with that. Stop trying to make fitna.

 

[al-Hasani]

@al-Hasani. I meant to mention the Muslim world. Arabs are a part of that. Our downfall, our subjugation is because we are not united. We have so many Muslim countries around the world, but no say in world affairs.

Since this was thread about Ottomans and Arabs, I mentioned Arabs exclusively. Arabs actually fought a British war. This is an indication we are not independent. What exactly did the arabs get evicting Ottoamns? I m not discussing merits of Ottoman rule. It had to come to an end. But I want to say is that since that time, Arabs have been in turmoil. Your enemies have a sound footing in your region.

This thread deals with an Ottoman general who served the Ottomans during the Siege of Madinah which was part of the Arab Revolt that lasted from 1916-1919. So if this is not about Arabs and Turks then what is it about?

The Muslim unity or lack thereof is a separate discussion altogether.

No, the Arab Revolt started among the Arabs of Hijaz and was fought by Arabs. A few British soldiers is not going to change that. There would be no revolt in Hijaz or anywhere else for that matter, had the Ottomans not committed those mistakes I mentioned.

What do you think? Independence. The same independence your country got in 1947. Why ask stupid questions? You still want to be a British colony?

No turmoil. All of Maghreb is stable, Egypt is relatively stable again, the GCC is the most stable Muslim region in the world etc. Only Yemen, Syria and Iraq are real troublemakers but that has nothing to do with this.

The Arab world is HUGE. From Morocco at the Atlantic to Oman near the Arabian Sea. Of course there will be turmoil from time to time. Still a long way to reach the track record of the Europeans that many seem to admire today.

Anyway the Arab spring for good and bad has been the biggest socio-economical and political movement in the Arab world since the end of WW1. Of course it will be complicated since a lot of ghost's are being challenged openly. Nobody said that it would not be bloody or a long hard process with many sacrifices.
Freedom never came cheaply.

 

[xenon54 out]

@al-Hasani its true GCC is the richest region in muslim world but not because of Arab supremacy or ancient Arab culture.

Brits made you independent so you can sell your oil to them just like they made Reza Pahlavi the Iranian Shah while he actually wanted to found a Republic like Atatürk.

Watch after 4:30 min

The richness of GCC is directly connected to oil and nothing else, you cant compare it to European civilisations who became a industrial superpower even before oil could have been used as we see it today (Industrial revolution).

It is a fact that GCC would still remain deserted if there was no oil, i mean you lack of everything except of money in the world be it Democracy, Human Rights and Freedom, your graphs and maps about HDI wont change it.

One picture says more than a thousand words.

KSA

Qatar

Oman

Yemen

Kuwait

UAE

 

[BLACKEAGLE]

He didn't defend anything but his murderous nationalistic masters.

A true Soldier of his cause. Such tenacity under extreme circumstances has only been displayed by a handful of men in the annals history.

This particular quote of his moved me:



Not much has changed about the Arabs since. Heck, one might even say not much has changed about the Arabs of today and those of the pre-Islamic era.


They betrayed the Caliphate and opened the Holy Lands to colonization. Israel owes its existence to Arabs.

Read history ignorant. Last three decades of Ottoman history.

 

[al-Hasani]

@xenon54

Yet the industrial revolution has nothing to do with Turkey. That was Western Europe. You can't take their achievements as your own. Where would Turkey be without Western help? Same situation. Actually worse since you don't have all the resources we have. Not our problem that you don't have them.

Every civilization and empire became rich either through native resources or by conquering them.

The Arab world has had the oldest and among the most influential civilizations way before anybody had heard about the word Turk and where Turkey was still Greek, Armenian and Kurdish.
Let alone the Arab Islamic empires and their countless of contributions.

HDI index have clearly spoken. They don't only deal with economy.

What you consider as freedom etc. has no importance. The importance is that people of the GCC live in the richest, most stable, prosperous, happy and safe region of the Muslim world.

We don't claim to be a semi-democracy like Turkey which never will be part of the EU or accepted as a full democracy. We have our own system that most people are perfectly comfortable with.

Yet, the GDP of Arab countries with no oil is even today still higher than that of Turkey. For instance Lebanon.

Turkey first become a model country in any way in the last 10 years thanks to the economic boom. Nothing else. Before you had millions of Turks escaping to the West for a better life.

Oh, is Turkey not the country that has jailed the most journalists in the world? Yet you are going to teach us about democracy that is not your invention anyway. Must be a joke.

 

[A Town]

Yes, Arabs are the original Muslims as being the first Muslims. I have not talked about any second-class Muslims so that is your own invention here.

When we conquered land we did not conquer Muslim land but non-Muslim land. That's how Islam spread from Portugal to India.

Some of the Muslim land today was not conquered but converted peacefully due to trade and settlement such as South East Asia (Malaysia, Brunei, Indonesia).

Arabs never conquered India.

 

[al-Hasani]

Arabs never conquered India.

To India. As bordering India. Parts of what is Western India today was part of the Umayyad Caliphate.

 

[A Town]

To India. As bordering India. Parts of what is Western India today was part of the Umayyad Caliphate.

Sort of but the Ummayad Caliphate only got too Sindh which is Pakistan before they where stopped by Rajputs. Islam came to India through traders in Bengal and Kerela.

 

[al-Hasani]

Sort of but the Ummayad Caliphate only got too Sindh which is Pakistan before they where stopped by Rajputs. Islam came to India through traders in Bengal and Kerela.

Yes, I know. I was meaning from India to Portugal as it being the border region. Yes, Arab traders always had close ties to those parts of India. The trade relations between the Arabian Peninsula and India are 5000 years old so nothing weird about this.

Trade and cultural links between ancient Arabia and ancient India date back to third millennium BC.[1]
Heptulla, Nejma. Indo-West Asian relations: the Nehru era. Allied Publishers, 1991.ISBN9788170233404.