Fakhri Pasha "The Defender of Madina"

[SALMAN F]

Typical rants about Arab supremacy, worthy only of the trash bin. Why am i not surprised?

Anyway, Salahuddin was a Kurd, not a Arab, and neither were hundreds, perhaps even thousands of excellent Islamic scholars, leaders, commanders, scientists, etc.


Good day.

The ayyubids were Arabs who immigrated to to Kurdish area

 

[airmarshal]

Very moving account of this brave soldier of Islam @Kaan.

Its true Arab treachery opened the doors for Zionist control of Middle East. Arabs got their little fiefdoms but the Muslim nation as a whole has suffered.

It makes me proud personally that Turks were the one who never colluded, conspired or accepted Imperialism. In fact they stood up to it as true soldiers. I salute Turk nation for this.

 

[Hakan]

5) Internal Arab fight for power. Instead of being divided into several different kingdoms, sultanates, emirates, sheikdoms one ruling family united the whole country. Wonderful and something even I as an Hashemite can appreciate in hindsight.

Wonderful one family (Ottomans) united the islamic world.

7) Nobody said anything about that being wrong. Yet your Turkish nationalists removed all those Arab traces (there were a lot on nearly all levels) that had been part of your culture for 500 years overnight.

What happened to your Turkish traces?

3) Nobody can assimilate Arabs. They assimilated others. So no surprise. In fact Ottomans got more Arabized than the other way around since they copied an Arab system basically. This is not controversial to say.

No body copied the Arabs because they were Arabs actually they copied Islam which replaced many aspects of the previous arab culture. If it was not for Islam the Arabs would have no significance in the world today just as they did not have any significance before Islam.

Hero for you maybe but not for the locals of Hijaz who revolted against the corrupt rule he represented. He might have been a good man and a Muslim but he was fighting for the wrong guys if you ask the locals and most Arabs.

So the Rebels were fighting with the right guys aka the British against the bad guys aka the Ottoman Muslims?


Also in the first post it was stated that after the rebels captured medina they actually looted the holy city so who is the oppressor now?


@Yzd Khalifa you better tell your friend to stop attacking my country or I will have start attacking his. Because he can't rely on the kindness of the turkish members of this forum for too much longer.
@Aeronaut about 10 days ago you accused me of trolling and gave me a warning I think you can find out who the real troll is after looking through this thread.

 

[Targon]

@al-Hasani

Turks were may be last major ethnic in Ottoman empire to have a national awakening, while Ottoman rule was still trying to unite its ethnicities around common Ottoman identity, or common religion, minorities were one by one trying to get independence because they were already effectd by nationalism.

Young Turks got the government just few years before the war, quite a few years to oppress some tribes from deserts to revolt.

And I'm pretty sure these desert tribes did't thought anything about lack of development in Ottoman.

They simply wanted power, thats it.

Btw, Arabs effected Turkish culture pretty much from the religious side, actually important and cultural effect was Persian.

 

[Brutas]

Mamluks were Cicassians from Southern Russia. Ottomans had inter-married with Anatolians & people in the Balkans & Caucasus. Caucasian Mamluks, Kurds (Ayyubids), Turks, Ottomans, Albanians, Mongols(Tatars) & Persians ruled Mid East & North Africa for over 1000 years.

 

[notsuperstitious]

Arabs had every right to fight Turkish imperialism (nothing against Ottomans, they were just one more imperialist power back then)

BTW, lots of people despise western imperialism, but at the same time glorify arab, turk, persian, afghani imperialism because of religious blinders.

It makes me proud personally that Turks were the one who never colluded, conspired or accepted Imperialism. In fact they stood up to it as true soldiers. I salute Turk nation for this.

Turks were imperialists themselves, duh!

 

[Informant]

@Desert Fox @Hyperion , are Pathans the product of Greek forces of Sikander pillaging through the area? I mean the dreamy eyed pathans.

 

[V. Makarov]

i recommend that you guys watch the movie 'Lawrence of Arabia (1962)' .The movie shows the nature of Arabs.The Arabs gave command of their armies to T.E Lawrence who was a British agent and the British promised the Arabs weaponry and ammunition.The Arabs and Turks fought a pre-planned war by the British.This was all taking place to weaken the countries surrounding Palestine so after a few years Israel could come into being.The 'Al-Saud' tribe of Arabia was given the leadership of Arabia as puppets and weak dictators.This is why today Arabia is known as 'Saudia' Arabia. Stupid Arabs.

 

[al-Hasani]

Wonderful one family (Ottomans) united the islamic world.



What happened to your Turkish traces?


No body copied the Arabs because they were Arabs actually they copied Islam which replaced many aspects of the previous arab culture. If it was not for Islam the Arabs would have no significance in the world today just as they did not have any significance before Islam.

So the Rebels were fighting with the right guys aka the British against the bad guys aka the Ottoman Muslims?


Also in the first post it was stated that after the rebels captured medina they actually looted the holy city so who is the oppressor now?


@Yzd Khalifa you better tell your friend to stop attacking my country or I will have start attacking his. Because he can't rely on the kindness of the turkish members of this forum for too much longer.
@Aeronaut about 10 days ago you accused me of trolling and gave me a warning I think you can find out who the real troll is after looking through this thread.

You did not unite anything. The Ottoman Empire was the smallest Caliphate. Most of the Muslim world and Muslims were not even under the Ottomans.

There were not any Turkish traces aside from a few forts. That's all. Which Turkish traces?

Can you mention me any city in Central Asia or elsewhere of any significance that was formed by the Turks? Which inventions? etc. All of the Islamic culture is mostly based on Arab and Persian civilization. That's a fact.

Whatever you say. More influential and relevant than a few Turkish tribes in Mongolia that left nothing.

Of course since they were fighting corruption, decadence and foreign rule and won. You have no problem with the Ottomans taking the Caliphate from the Arabs who ruled it for 1000 years from the very beginning and during the most important part of Islamic history BY FAR but you have a problem with Arabs taking back their land. Only a little part actually since most of the Arab world was sovereign long ago and some always as I mentioned.

That happens always and it was not nothing serious. You don't want me to talk about the crimes of the Ottomans do you?

Maybe @Awadd can help you with this.

You can do whatever you want to. Like I care. The point is that two of your compatriots made stupid and generalizing comments about the second biggest ethnic group in the world in the beginning of this thread way before any Arab had commented. Later some of them continued. If they can't handle the heat then let them not write insults in the beginning.

 

[usernameless]

i recommend that you guys watch the movie 'Lawrence of Arabia (1962)' .The movie shows the nature of Arabs.The Arabs gave command of their armies to T.E Lawrence who was a British agent and the British promised the Arabs weaponry and ammunition.The Arabs and Turks fought a pre-planned war by the British.This was all taking place to weaken the countries surrounding Palestine so after a few years Israel could come into being.The 'Al-Saud' tribe of Arabia was given the leadership of Arabia as puppets and weak dictators.This is why today Arabia is known as 'Saudia' Arabia. Stupid Arabs.

And that's what annoys Turks. Back in those days everyone wanted to regain their lands from the Ottomans, but they didn't see that they were practically used by Britain/west to help them achieve their goals. No disrespect, but why is the west, which is full with 'democracy' and human rights, so silent about SA and the gulf countries? These countries are ruled by a family and generally lack some human rights, but still they are left alone by the west. SA and the gulf countries are still heavily in the grip of the west. Anyone who's been following the developments in the ME knows that. Plus, there is a reason why some Turks think that lots of the mess in the ME is the reward for the Arabs as a result of the divide and rule strategy by the west. Anyway, past is past, we should look to the future and try to cooperate in a sincere way, so that other countries cannot take advantage of the differences in the ME, which still happens nowadays.

 

[al-Hasani]

And that's what annoys Turks. Back in those days everyone wanted to regain their lands from the Ottomans, but they didn't see that they were practically used by Britain/west to help them achieve their goals. No disrespect, but why is the west, which is full with 'democracy' and human rights, so silent about SA and the gulf countries? These countries are ruled by a family and generally lack some human rights, but still they are left alone by the west. SA and the gulf countries are still heavily in the grip of the west. Anyone who's been following the developments in the ME knows that. Plus, there is a reason why some Turks think that lots of the mess in the ME is the reward for the Arabs as a result of the divide and rule strategy by the west. Anyway, past is past, we should look to the future and try to cooperate in a sincere way, so that other countries cannot take advantage of the differences in the ME, which still happens nowadays.

Yet the GCC is by far the most developed, rich and stable part of the Muslim world. You will cry about resources but every country and civilization of any worth became rich due to resources. Either from finding it natively or conquering territories that had resources. Way before oil and gas was found the Arab world was always one of the richest and most significant areas of the world and especially the ancient world located at the crossroads of the world. For instance Hijaz had the largest gold mine in the ME which functioned since 3000 BC. Among the most strategically important sea ports of the ancient world (Jeddah, Basra, Aden etc.). Prior to the Brits and Dutch the Arabs controlled the major trade routes with India and South East Asia for centuries etc.

Nearly 3000 years ago the Arab world was one of the most wealthy regions due to the incense route and trade which at that time was one of the most valuable goods in the world. Sought after by all nearby empires and kingdoms. Native as those not native.

Incense Route - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Mahd adh Dhahab - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Your country is a NATO member. You have a lot to thank Western civilization, science etc. for your growth. Like all Muslim countries.

We have no problem being allies with the US. Neither does it seem that you have since you are a NATO member.

 

[RAMPAGE]

@al-Hasani @Kaan


Let bygones be bygones.

Today Saudi Arabia, Turkey & Pakistan are the most Powerful countries of the Muslim world, members of OIC and enjoy friendly relations.

Our next step should be the formation of an Economic, Military and a Political alliance for the betterment of the Muslim world.

What say you gentlemen ???

 

[al-Hasani]

@al-Hasani @Kaan


Let bygones be bygones.

Today Saudi Arabia, Turkey & Pakistan are the most Powerful countries of the Muslim world, members of OIC and enjoy friendly relations.

Our next step should be the formation of an Economic, Military and a Political alliance for the betterment of the Muslim world.

What say you gentlemen ???

Well, tell the Turkish members that bro. We Arabs are not talking about what happened in 1517 and how we lost the Caliphate after nearly 1000 years of rule from the very beginning. In a similar fashion. Other Muslims ganged up on us and took the throne. We leave that for the past.

Well, we need all the Muslim countries on that boat. 3 countries is not enough and you forgot Indonesia which is the most populous Muslim country and the one with the highest GDP.

I do agree that some measures should be taken but before that we need to fix our own problems IMO.

 

[usernameless]

Yet the GCC is by far the most developed, rich and stable part of the Muslim world. You will cry about resources but every country and civilization of any worth became rich due to resources. Either from finding it natively or conquering territories that had resources. Way before oil and gas was found the Arab world was always one of the richest and most significant areas of the world and especially the ancient world located at the crossroads of the world. For instance Hijaz had the largest gold mine in the ME which functioned since 3000 BC. Among the most strategically important sea ports of the ancient world (Jeddah, Basra, Aden etc.). Prior to the Brits and Dutch the Arabs controlled the major trade routes with India and South East Asia for centuries etc.

Nearly 3000 years ago the Arab world was one of the most wealthy regions due to the incense route and trade which at that time was one of the most valuable goods in the world. Sought after by all nearby empires and kingdoms. Native as those not native.

Incense Route - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Mahd adh Dhahab - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Your country is a NATO member. You have a lot to thank Western civilization, science etc. for your growth. Like all Muslim countries.

We have no problem being allies with the US. Neither does it seem that you have since you are a NATO member.

Those Arab lands have truly been blessed by valuable resources, but what has become of it in the modern era? As far as i know, it's the western companies doing the crucial parts of the process, thus keeping a big portion of the profit from the resources in Arab lands. Those lands are mainly stable because they are kept stable by certain powers for their own stability as well. Now also try to imagine the Arab lands in this modern era without oil.

Difference is Turkey had no choice in the past but to join the western block against Soviet aggression. Now we are slowly developing and achieving independence from the west militarily and politically, though there is still a long way to go. Key point being Turks in general have a sense of independence. Can't say that most of the Arabs leaders are doing the same. It even seems most of them prefer to keep their own power, just because they can and some of them are tolerated because they are just pawns of various powers.that's why i said SA and gulf countries are actually not independent at all, they are still in the grip of the west and are kept stable because the west has its interest there. If you're honest, you should see this too and admit it, just as i admitted that Arabs have had the right to take their lands back. I'll leave the topic here because i already said what i wanted to say and hear from you. Plus knowing you, there won't be an end if i keep responding

 

[al-Hasani]

Those Arab lands have truly been blessed by valuable resources, but what has become of it in the modern era? As far as i know, it's the western companies doing the crucial parts of the process, thus keeping a big portion of the profit from the resources in Arab lands. Those lands are mainly stable because they are kept stable by certain powers for their own stability as well. Now also try to imagine the Arab lands in this modern era without oil.

Difference is Turkey had no choice in the past but to join the western block against Soviet aggression. Now we are slowly developing and achieving independence from the west militarily and politically, though there is still a long way to go. Key point being Turks in general have a sense of independence. Can't say that most of the Arabs leaders are doing the same. It even seems most of them prefer to keep their own power, just because they can and some of them are tolerated because they are just pawns of various powers.that's why i said SA and gulf countries are actually not independent at all, they are still in the grip of the west and are kept stable because the west has its interest there. If you're honest, you should see this too and admit it, just as i admitted that Arabs have had the right to take their lands back. I'll leave the topic here because i already said what i wanted to say and hear from you. Plus knowing you, there won't be an end if i keep responding

You are not correct.

Ever heard about Saudi Aramco? The most valuable company in the world?

Ever heard about Saudi Bin Laden Group - the biggest construction firm in the world?

Ever heard about SABIC one of the largest chemical firms in the world?

Ever heard about the Saudi Arabian Mining Firm? One of the biggest mining firms in the world?

Ever heard about ALCOA one of the biggest aluminum producers in the world?

Ever heard about one of the richest largely self-made businessmen in the world by the name Prince Walid bin Talal al-Saud?

Most of the Arab world has no oil or gas and they have had their problems as any other developing countries but they are relatively well-off compared to most countries of the world. Look at Morocco, Tunisia, Egypt, Jordan and Syria until recently. Not all is doom and gloom. All those countries have somewhat similar GDP per capita as Turkey until the rise of the Turkish economy 10 years ago. In fact the GDP per capita of Lebanon is bigger than that of Turkey despite them being in many wars and having much fewer resources than Turkey. Today.

List of countries by GDP (PPP) per capita - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Also you talk like Turkey has not been blessed with plenty of resources, a strategic location, agricultural lands, a big population etc.

Nor had we any choice since most of the countries of the GCC, aside from KSA, were British colonies until 50 years ago or so. It started after the WW1 until the 1960's. So they had a presence of about 50 years. Like the majority of the non-Western world was back then including the country whose forum we use (Pakistan) and their big neighbor (India). So it was only natural that the West at that time the most powerful force in the world BY FAR would be natural allies and try to gain influence especially after the oil and gas was found. What were we supposed to do?

Besides many Arab countries, especially republics, sided with the Soviets and how well did it go for them and the Soviet Union which does not exist anymore?
I am happy that we chose to be friends with the West and not the Soviet Union or other failed states. You should be happy for Turkey siding with NATO and not the Soviet Union as well. Not everything is perfect but the only other option was complete isolation or siding with the other power of that time (Soviet Union) and we all saw which side ultimately won and what was the wise and what was the unwise decision.

KSA has an independent policy like any other Muslim country of the region.

Lastly today our biggest trading partner (that of the GCC) BY FAR is not USA but China. Less and less trade is done with the US. Oh, we don't do business with any country unless it has no mutual interests.