Fakhri Pasha "The Defender of Madina"

[Hakan]

You did not unite anything. The Ottoman Empire was the smallest Caliphate. Most of the Muslim world and Muslims were not even under the Ottomans.

The ottomans may have been smaller than the other caliphates but look at who the ottomans fought. They invaded europe reached vienna, as a result of the ottomans you still have Muslim countries in europe. The ottoman Tatar vassals in the Crimea even burned down moscow with the help of the jannisarries. All of europe was scared of the Ottomans and that is on record. The Ottomans were fighting literally dozens of european powers at the same time while fighting the shia safavids. The Ottomans did unite the muslim world because they were recognized as the Calipha by all muslims which is why the Indonesian sultan declared allegiance to the empire. I am afraid it seems that you are one of the only few people here that have a major problem with turks and it is very obvious. You probably are not even proud of the muslim conquest of constantinople beause it was conquered by turk or any other islamic achievements that happened under turkish rule.

Can you mention me any city in Central Asia or elsewhere of any significance that was formed by the Turks? Which inventions? etc. All of the Islamic culture is mostly based on Arab and Persian civilization. That's a fact.

What do you mean what signifigance are you crazy? if you are talking about architecture thats not our thing rather we were warriors historically which is why we had dozens of massive empires. We were already conquering europe while you guys were running around the kabbah naked. So what if islamic culture is based on arab and persian civilization do you want me to give you another medal to add to your collection.The turks contributed to islamic civilization by protecting it if we didn't do that you would have nothing which is actually what happened when the mongols invaded. (most of their troops were turks)

Whatever you say. More influential and relevant than a few Turkish tribes in Mongolia that left nothing.

We were already conquering europe while you guys were starving in your tents in arabia. The Byzantines were paying tributes to the Turks just to stay alive while you guys weren't even a significant force in the world. You should also look at all of the beautiful mosques that there are in central asia before you try and say that we didn't build anything besides most of the stuff we built outside of central asia such as the Taj Mahal.

Of course since they were fighting corruption, decadence and foreign rule and won. You have no problem with the Ottomans taking the Caliphate from the Arabs who ruled it for 1000 years from the very beginning and during the most important part of Islamic history BY FAR but you have a problem with Arabs taking back their land. Only a little part actually since most of the Arab world was sovereign long ago and some always as I mentioned.

In this statement it is very clear that you don't care whether or not someone is muslim or not all you care about is arab arab arab. I wouldn't be suprised if you prefered a christian arab over us muslim turks.The turks defended the muslims from the non muslims and that is the fact. You probably think we just conquered arabia and yemen because we felt like but actually we saved your butts from the portuguese who had occupied jeddah I dont see you going around the forum trashing them down.
I have a question for you: would it have been fair in your opinion if the muslim persians rebelled against the Arab Caliphs? After all they were occupied right?

 

[Indos]

Turkey still has so much work to do to increase their religiosity :

Chapter 2: Religious Commitment | Pew Research Center's Religion & Public Life Project

Talking about oil, USA and Canada combined has more oil than entire OPEC members.

 

[usernameless]

The ottomans may have been smaller than the other caliphates but look at who the ottomans fought. They invaded europe reached vienna, as a result of the ottomans you still have Muslim countries in europe. The ottoman Tatar vassals in the Crimea even burned down moscow with the help of the jannisarries. All of europe was scared of the Ottomans and that is on record. The Ottomans were fighting literally dozens of european powers at the same time while fighting the shia safavids. The Ottomans did unite the muslim world because they were recognized as the Calipha by all muslims which is why the Indonesian sultan declared allegiance to the empire. I am afraid it seems that you are one of the only few people here that have a major problem with turks and it is very obvious. You probably are not even proud of the muslim conquest of constantinople beause it was conquered by turk or any other islamic achievements that happened under turkish rule.



What do you mean what signifigance are you crazy? if you are talking about architecture thats not our thing rather we were warriors historically which is why we had dozens of massive empires. We were already conquering europe while you guys were running around the kabbah naked. So what if islamic culture is based on arab and persian civilization do you want me to give you another medal to add to your collection.The turks contributed to islamic civilization by protecting it if we didn't do that you would have nothing which is actually what happened when the mongols invaded. (most of their troops were turks)



We were already conquering europe while you guys were starving in your tents in arabia. The Byzantines were paying tributes to the Turks just to stay alive while you guys weren't even a significant force in the world. You should also look at all of the beautiful mosques that there are in central asia before you try and say that we didn't build anything besides most of the stuff we built outside of central asia such as the Taj Mahal.

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In this statement it is very clear that you don't care whether or not someone is muslim or not all you care about is arab arab arab. I wouldn't be suprised if you prefered a christian arab over us muslim turks.The turks defended the muslims from the non muslims and that is the fact. You probably think we just conquered arabia and yemen because we felt like but actually we saved your butts from the portuguese who had occupied jeddah I dont see you going around the forum trashing them down.
I have a question for you: would it have been fair in your opinion if the muslim persians rebelled against the Arab Caliphs? After all they were occupied right?

Bro, don't waste your time with this guy. He's not man enough to face the truth when it's against him, despite him saying all the time that he looks mainly at facts. When those facts are against him, he will find an excuse, a way out out, through writing tons of text that are false or half true just to justify his own little world while we, the other people in the ME, know well that his arguments don't hold much ground. Just be careful to not hurt other Arabs with your words, we have a good relation with some of them.

 

[al-Hasani]

@Kaan

You lost a humiliating defeat in Vienna. So that does not count. You controlled the small Balkans which are smaller than Spain and Portugal for much lesser time than the Arabs who controlled it for 800 years. Longer than any other non-European people controlled European lands. Let aside Sicily, Malta, Cyprus, parts of Southern Italy etc.

Well, you seem to have a problem with Arabs going by your logic then.

So yes, no answer.

The Huns were barbarians that contributed to nothing and only lasted for a short time. Besides they were not Turks. What connection do Turkish people have with theme? Nothing.

Do you want me to talk about the ancient Semitic civilizations from Egypt, Mesopotamia, Dilmun, ancient Yemen, ancient Levant, Phonecians that colonized Southern Europe before the Greeks and Romans existed etc. I already told you that you are going to lose that debate.

Besides I am sure that you know that most Turkish people today have little ties to the real Turkic people. Most are indigenous people. Genetic tests prove this by abundance and they don't lie.

Furthermore, various studies suggested that, although the early Turkic invaders carried out an invasion with cultural significance, including the introduction of the Old Anatolian Turkish language (the predecessor to modern Turkish) and Islam, the genetic contribution from Central Asia may have been very small.k[›][137][141] Today's Turkish people are more closely related with the Balkan populations than to the Central Asian populations,[136][142] and a study looking into allele frequencies suggested that there was a lack of genetic relationship between the Mongols and the Turks, despite the historical relationship of their languages (The Turks and Germans were equally distant to all three Mongolian populations).[143] Multiple studies suggested an elite cultural dominance-driven linguistic replacement model to explain the adoption of Turkish language by Anatolian indigenous inhabitants.[72]k[›][140] A study involving mitochondrial analysis of a Byzantine-era population, whose samples were gathered from excavations in the archaeological site ofSagalassos, found that the samples had close genetic affinity with modern Turkish and Balkan populations.[74] During their research on leukemia, a group of Armenian scientists observed high genetic matching between Turks, Kurds, and Armenians.[144]

Turkish people - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Oh, Arabs created 3 of the 11 largest empires the world have ever seen. We were both conquerors, founders, builders and influenced other people religiously, linguistically, culturally etc.

Yes, if I was an Persian I would detest the Arab Muslim invasion 1400 years ago that changed their entire country and culture forever.

 

[Targon]

Turkey still has so much work to do to increase their religiosity :

Chapter 2: Religious Commitment | Pew Research Center's Religion & Public Life Project

Talking about oil, USA and Canada combined has more oil than entire OPEC members.

What ? why are we increasing religiosity ?

@al-Hasani

No offense but despite how rich SA is, nobody considers it a proper, civilized country. Thats what I'm talking about, so much potential is being wasted by a bunch of retarded clerics and incredibly wasteful tribal lords, and Saudis doesn't seems to be caring about it all.

 

[usernameless]

Turkey still has so much work to do to increase their religiosity :

Chapter 2: Religious Commitment | Pew Research Center's Religion & Public Life Project

Talking about oil, USA and Canada combined has more oil than entire OPEC members.

Your point being about religion? If 97% of the Turks in that survey say they believe in God and the prophet, that's enough to know. It's people like you in this case, who wanna enforce other people how to live according to a religion, who are at the wrong end according to Islam. Don't judge others or a whole country based on a few people.

 

[al-Hasani]

What ? why are we increasing religiosity ?

@al-Hasani

No offense but despite how rich SA is, nobody considers it a proper, civilized country. Thats what I'm talking about, so much potential is being wasted by a bunch of retarded clerics and incredibly wasteful tribal lords, and Saudis doesn't seems to be caring about it all.

The ignorants don't. Those that actually have visited it, such as users from across the world here on this forum, don't. Or those people who live in KSA while we speak which dozens of users do.

What is being wasted? KSA is moving ahead on all fronts. It takes a long time to make reforms since the country is conservative by nature. This is not the thread for it but it would take hours to explain the progress, all the major projects on a world scale that are going on, the changes in the civil society, the rapid growth in the economy etc. Most don't hear about this though.

Which tribal lords? There are no tribal lords. KSA's government is the one deciding. Tribes have no influence anymore other than prestige.

Some clerics are good while others are retarded. The retarded ones often have no influence.
Besides reading Western sensationalist news reports about KSA is a bad idea. Most of it is pure nonsense.

Lastly KSA does not claim to be a democracy nor do most people want it. We have our own system that most seem to be comfortable with as of now.

 

[airmarshal]

i recommend that you guys watch the movie 'Lawrence of Arabia (1962)' .The movie shows the nature of Arabs.The Arabs gave command of their armies to T.E Lawrence who was a British agent and the British promised the Arabs weaponry and ammunition.The Arabs and Turks fought a pre-planned war by the British.This was all taking place to weaken the countries surrounding Palestine so after a few years Israel could come into being.The 'Al-Saud' tribe of Arabia was given the leadership of Arabia as puppets and weak dictators.This is why today Arabia is known as 'Saudia' Arabia. Stupid Arabs.

If you read T E Lawrence book - Seven Pillars of Wisdom, your heart will literally bleed. How we the Muslims conspired against our very own in collusion with out known enemies. Just because they were Turks, the Arabs forgot they were in league with an enemy.

The sentiments of nationalism actually weakened Muslims. thats why Islam is much against nationalism and promotes Muslims as one nation - ummah, the word that our practices have made a joke!

 

[Targon]

Having oil money and skyscrapers doesn't means civilization, you're still struggling about if women should drive or not.

 

[al-Hasani]

If you read T E Lawrence book - Seven Pillars of Wisdom, your heart will literally bleed. How we the Muslims conspired against our very own in collusion with out known enemies. Just because they were Turks, the Arabs forgot they were in league with an enemy.

The sentiments of nationalism actually weakened Muslims. thats why Islam is much against nationalism and promotes Muslims as one nation - ummah, the word that our practices have made a joke!

Yes, but as always no word about what started the Arab Revolt in the first place. The same nationalistic policies that you cry about which the Young Turk Movement started. The Arabs of Hijaz have nobody to apologize to and many other Arabs and peoples of the Ottoman Empire (Muslim and non-Muslim) revolted against the Ottomans prior and after that event. Nor was it the Arabs who abolished the Ottoman Empire but themselves. In fact their national hero Ataturk. Nor was it the Arabs that created the Young Turk Movement nor was it the Arabs who made Turkey secular and removed the Arabic alphabet, Sharia law, most of the Arab traces in Ottoman Turkish which was more Arab than Turkic etc.

Besides once again it was the Arabs who fought not the British.

Having oil money and skyscrapers doesn't means civilization, you're still struggling about if women should drive or not.

Yet KSA and the GCC is doing better than all other Muslim countries when it come to economy, economic growth, happiness, stability, HDI-Index etc.

Skyscrapers are not built much in KSA. In fact I suspect that Istanbul has more skyscrapers than all of KSA. I think that you are thinking about Dubai.

The ban on women driving, which is not really a ban since there is no law regulating this, is due to cultural reasons and due to some retarded clerics. Most of the people do not support this besides it is going to change very soon which the government has already proclaimed.

Other than that I don't see any major problems. Well, I would like women to have an even bigger role although they are the better students and constantly advancing.

Most Saudi Arabians are comfortable with their system and see no need of rebelling. Just like the Turks who are in favor of Erdogan and voting for him.

Also if you are going to cry about executions and a harsh penalty system then you are picking up the wrong discussion with me since I support it 100%. We have a ZERO tolerance level for criminals which I am happy about. Hence we have one of the lowest crime rates in the world and stability. People feel safe.

 

[Targon]

Of course you're happy, one of my buddies from Kuwait said that Emir would give everyone money at eids, as long as you got some money who cares about how corrupted and backwad the state is

 

[BronzePlaque]

May Allah bless his soul

 

[al-Hasani]

Of course you're happy, one of my buddies from Kuwait said that Emir would give everyone money at eids, as long as you got some money who cares about how corrupted and backwad the state is

But despite that all the GCC states have a much higher HDI ranking than Turkey, are more prosperous, more safe, more stable, people are more happy, no migrations abroad etc. How can you explain this?

No such things are given in KSA btw.



You like your semi-democracy and we like our system. Let's end it here. We don't claim to follow Western democracy and never have.

 

[usernameless]

But despite that all the GCC states have a much higher HDI ranking than Turkey, are more prosperous, more safe, more stable, people are more happy, no migrations abroad etc. How can you explain this?

No such things are given in KSA btw.



You like your semi-democracy and we like our system. Let's end it here.

If Turkey had that much oil like the Arab peninsula and Iran, we also definitely would top at HDI. You don't realize that the reason for so much progress is your oil, right? I hope Arab nations can restructure and base their economy on another system before oil runs out. Turkey didn't have it easy like the Arab nations in that sense. Turks had to build the modern country from scratch (agriculture, big population blabla doesnt count. These do not translate to big money instantly), while most Arab nations depend mostly on oil, quick big amount of bucks. Still, good luck. Be really grateful to Allah that there was oil in those lands. What would the HDI be without it.

 

[al-Hasani]

If Turkey had that much oil like the Arab peninsula and Iran, we also definitely would top at HDI. You don't realize that the reason for so much progress is your oil, right? I hope Arab nations can restructure and base their economy on another system before oil runs out. Turkey didn't have it easy like the Arab nations in that sense. Turks had to build the modern country from scratch (agriculture, big population blabla doesnt count. These do not translate to big money instantly), while most Arab nations depend mostly on oil, quick big amount of bucks. Still, good luck. Be really grateful to Allah that there was oil in those lands. What would the HDI be without it.

Well, and if we had as big a population as you and agricultural lands we would be even better off. Not only that. You need to do some reading about HDI.

Which Arab nations? I already told you that most of the Arab world is NOT blessed with oil and gas.

So had KSA and most other Arab countries. Partially due to the neglect of the Ottomans and later the Brits.

Nobody depends on oil anymore. More than half of KSA's economy is not based on oil and gas anymore and the non-oil/gas sectors grow at a rapid speed each year.

Let me remind you of this earlier post I wrote to you earlier today. You seem to have already forgot it. Let me refresh your memory.

PS: We have many other resources than just oil and gas. In terms of resources we have indeed been blessed. But either you win or lose. That's life. But we can't have it all.

Yet the GCC is by far the most developed, rich and stable part of the Muslim world. You will cry about resources but every country and civilization of any worth became rich due to resources. Either from finding it natively or conquering territories that had resources. Way before oil and gas was found the Arab world was always one of the richest and most significant areas of the world and especially the ancient world located at the crossroads of the world. For instance Hijaz had the largest gold mine in the ME which functioned since 3000 BC. Among the most strategically important sea ports of the ancient world (Jeddah, Basra, Aden etc.). Prior to the Brits and Dutch the Arabs controlled the major trade routes with India and South East Asia for centuries etc.

Nearly 3000 years ago the Arab world was one of the most wealthy regions due to the incense route and trade which at that time was one of the most valuable goods in the world. Sought after by all nearby empires and kingdoms. Native as those not native.

Incense Route - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Mahd adh Dhahab - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Your country is a NATO member. You have a lot to thank Western civilization, science etc. for your growth. Like all Muslim countries.

We have no problem being allies with the US. Neither does it seem that you have since you are a NATO member.

You might take a look at this thread:

KSA Economy News & Discussions