Egyptian Armed Forces

[Dino R.]

Maybe Russia didn't want to sell Egypt the Su-35 either. Or is just too expansive to operate since it will need a whole new platform of its own.
The Egyptian generals who took that decision were certainly aware of the data that was in the article of the comparisons, so they know better.
I think if Egypt can have the S-300 or S-400 air defense systems (not just the Patriot that performed so badly against Iraqi basic Scuds), that will help in countering the F-15I and the F-35Is, along with some AWACS platforms from China or Sweden or better yet some high altitude, long endurance UAVs produced locally like the Iranian ones, which can compensate for the AEWs missing in Egypt if they are really missing !!!
Anyhow from my own knowledge about the Egyptian pilots at wars against Israel, I think that with the modern platforms Egypt has now, there is absolutely nothing to be feared from Israel, but a treacherous and preemptive strike like in 1967, which the Egyptian Generals take into account, and have now redundant means to prevent it from ever happening again.

Of course the Generals do know all of that and more. Like I said there are many other reasons why not the Su-35, price, political reasons, maybe the people who helped finance that deal, the Saudis and the UAE don't want Egypt to have such an advanced fighter, who knows! I'm only speaking from my own point of view, that the EAF is facing threats in Ethiopia now and the Egyptian government will have to do something about that Dam they're building there! And even if the EAF wanted more of a point-defense type of fighter, don't you think the Mig-35 with the AESA Zhuk-AE radar would have been a better choice? Price difference ain't that much! But again, I don't have the whole picture, and have built a pretty decent Integrated Air Defenses, using mostly Russian weapons for low and medium air defense, and they made the right upgrades to their old Soviet legacy sams and their radars, and they were depending only on the Patriot PAC-3 for their long range, but yes, I think they will be getting the S-300 PMU2 as it will integrate smoothly with the BUK and TOR systems they already have and even their old SA-2s. And as for the AEW role they have 8 upgraded E-2 hawkeyes but yes I agree with you, they need a better and more capable platform, however the Chinese ones won't work as they are heavily dependent on Israeli technology and I don't know how well can they be integrated with the current Egyptian systems, however the Swedish Erieye system even on a smaller Embrar jet would do fine. As for the UAVs Egypt already started licence building of a Chinese Medium Endurance UAV and they will make their way to a bigger one I'm sure, it is a must.
And yea, what happened in 1967 simply can't happen again now a days, not with the IAD systems Egypt has

 

[Mahmoud_EGY]

Of course the Generals do know all of that and more. Like I said there are many other reasons why not the Su-35, price, political reasons, maybe the people who helped finance that deal, the Saudis and the UAE don't want Egypt to have such an advanced fighter, who knows! I'm only speaking from my own point of view, that the EAF is facing threats in Ethiopia now and the Egyptian government will have to do something about that Dam they're building there! And even if the EAF wanted more of a point-defense type of fighter, don't you think the Mig-35 with the AESA Zhuk-AE radar would have been a better choice? Price difference ain't that much! But again, I don't have the whole picture, and have built a pretty decent Integrated Air Defenses, using mostly Russian weapons for low and medium air defense, and they made the right upgrades to their old Soviet legacy sams and their radars, and they were depending only on the Patriot PAC-3 for their long range, but yes, I think they will be getting the S-300 PMU2 as it will integrate smoothly with the BUK and TOR systems they already have and even their old SA-2s. And as for the AEW role they have 8 upgraded E-2 hawkeyes but yes I agree with you, they need a better and more capable platform, however the Chinese ones won't work as they are heavily dependent on Israeli technology and I don't know how well can they be integrated with the current Egyptian systems, however the Swedish Erieye system even on a smaller Embrar jet would do fine. As for the UAVs Egypt already started licence building of a Chinese Medium Endurance UAV and they will make their way to a bigger one I'm sure, it is a must.
And yea, what happened in 1967 simply can't happen again now a days, not with the IAD systems Egypt has

since you seem to know a lot all i know in ground air defence is that they shoot enemy jets i have a qustion
how could the isreali air force strike in sudan and enter syria air space without being detected or fired at ? syria for example have shot down turkish jet why didnt they deal with isreali like they did with turkey ?

 

[BLACKEAGLE]

I noticed you had a pic of the UAE's Jobaria MLRS system, here is a review I wrote while back about it, hope you find it useful

We have a professional here @WebMaster @Aeronaut

Regarding the analysis, I believe it's correct, but when we take UAE case into consideration, the most disadvantages of this MRLS don't really exist. in other words, mobility is a must for MRLS as they could be targeted after firing their rockets, but in UAE, there are immune top notch air defense system and air force which make targeting anything inside the country with precision guided missiles impossible from a country like Iran.

What UAE did was customizing this MRLS to suit it's need. As you mentioned, Jobaria replaces a full battery of MRLS of 30 men crew with 1 vehicle of 3 men. As you know, UAE lacks personnel and need a massive firepower to counter the threat coming from Iran which has huge personal whom could be used to invade it like they did with Iraq.

Another thing, this vehicle isn't supposed to fire all it's rockets at once, it depends on the nature of the threat.

 

[Dino R.]

since you seem to know a lot all i know in ground air defence is that they shoot enemy jets i have a qustion
how could the isreali air force strike in sudan and enter syria air space without being detected or fired at ? syria for example have shot down turkish jet why didnt they deal with isreali like they did with turkey ?

Well the Sudanese air defenses are simply a joke! It is mainly dependent on AAA guns, MANPADS and vintage SA-2 Sams, so it was no match what so ever to the Israeli jamming capabilities. As for Syria, all I can say again is perfect planning on the IAF part coupled with really good EW (Electronic warfare) capabilities coupled with detailed knowledge through intelligence sources for gaps in Syrian Radar coverage and the syrian air force scramble times and such, the IAF is really good at that, and their radar and communication jamming equipment are some of the best in the world. As for the Turkish Air Force plane that was shot down, the Syrians used their new Russian Pantsir-S mobile air defense system for that, it is a stand-alone system and is very capable as it's radar can be turned on and a shot made at a very short period of time, plus the Turkish plane that was shot down I believe, if i remember correctly was a reconnaissance RF-4E, so those usually fly medium-low altitude, a perfect target for the Pantsir-S, however there ain't enough details about that incident except the type of Turkish plane and the Syrian system believed to have shot it down.
Hope that answered your question

We have a professional here @WebMaster @Aeronaut

Regarding the analysis, I believe it's correct, but when we take UAE case into consideration, the most disadvantages of this MRLS don't really exist. in other words, mobility is a must for MRLS as they could be targeted after firing their rockets, but in UAE, there are immune top notch air defense system and air force which make targeting anything inside the country with precision guided missiles impossible from a country like Iran.

What UAE did was customizing this MRLS to suit it's need. As you mentioned, Jobaria replaces a full battery of MRLS of 30 men crew with 1 vehicle of 3 men. As you know, UAE lacks personnel and need a massive firepower to counter the threat coming from Iran which has huge personal whom could be used to invade it like they did with Iraq.

Another thing, this vehicle isn't supposed to fire all it's rockets at once, it depends on the nature of the threat.

Thank you for reading the analysis, the fundamental problem is in the systems poor mobility specially in sandy-terrain!!! I honestly think the UAE put together such a system just for bragging rights to say "We have the world's most powerful MLRS"!! Tactically it simply doesn't make any sense I'm sorry! It is the nature of an MLRS system, its range, it is a theater system, like an area-denial type of system, it is not meant to shoot all the way to Iran at all! And the main threat to the UAE from Iran would be long-range Ballistic Missiles strikes not an invasion!!! I still think that MLRS system was a massive waste of time, money and resources. Also remember, no one enjoys air-superiority like the USA and Russia, they have MLRS systems, and the USA tries to cut-down on manpower more than any other country, why didn't they come-up with such a system?!!! The answer is simple, Mobility!!! What you are going to cut-down on in manpower in the Jobaria system itself you will still need for support vehicles and logistical support!!!

 

[BLACKEAGLE]

Well the Sudanese air defenses are simply a joke! It is mainly dependent on AAA guns, MANPADS and vintage SA-2 Sams, so it was no match what so ever to the Israeli jamming capabilities. As for Syria, all I can say again is perfect planning on the IAF part coupled with really good EW (Electronic warfare) capabilities coupled with detailed knowledge through intelligence sources for gaps in Syrian Radar coverage and the syrian air force scramble times and such, the IAF is really good at that, and their radar and communication jamming equipment are some of the best in the world. As for the Turkish Air Force plane that was shot down, the Syrians used their new Russian Pantsir-S mobile air defense system for that, it is a stand-alone system and is very capable as it's radar can be turned on and a shot made at a very short period of time, plus the Turkish plane that was shot down I believe, if i remember correctly was a reconnaissance RF-4E, so those usually fly medium-low altitude, a perfect target for the Pantsir-S, however there ain't enough details about that incident except the type of Turkish plane and the Syrian system believed to have shot it down.
Hope that answered your question



Thank you for reading the analysis, the fundamental problem is in the systems poor mobility specially in sandy-terrain!!! I honestly think the UAE put together such a system just for bragging rights to say "We have the world's most powerful MLRS"!! Tactically it simply doesn't make any sense I'm sorry! It is the nature of an MLRS system, its range, it is a theater system, like an area-denial type of system, it is not meant to shoot all the way to Iran at all! And the main threat to the UAE from Iran would be long-range Ballistic Missiles strikes not an invasion!!! I still think that MLRS system was a massive waste of time, money and resources. Also remember, no one enjoys air-superiority like the USA and Russia, they have MLRS systems, and the USA tries to cut-down on manpower more than any other country, why didn't they come-up with such a system?!!! The answer is simple, Mobility!!! What you are going to cut-down on in manpower in the Jobaria system itself you will still need for support vehicles and logistical support!!!

You convinced me, but still I love the vehicle. I hope you enjoy your stay here.

 

[Dino R.]

You convinced me, but still I love the vehicle. I hope you enjoy your stay here.

Thank you glad I can help

 

[Mahmoud_EGY]

Well the Sudanese air defenses are simply a joke! It is mainly dependent on AAA guns, MANPADS and vintage SA-2 Sams, so it was no match what so ever to the Israeli jamming capabilities. As for Syria, all I can say again is perfect planning on the IAF part coupled with really good EW (Electronic warfare) capabilities coupled with detailed knowledge through intelligence sources for gaps in Syrian Radar coverage and the syrian air force scramble times and such, the IAF is really good at that, and their radar and communication jamming equipment are some of the best in the world. As for the Turkish Air Force plane that was shot down, the Syrians used their new Russian Pantsir-S mobile air defense system for that, it is a stand-alone system and is very capable as it's radar can be turned on and a shot made at a very short period of time, plus the Turkish plane that was shot down I believe, if i remember correctly was a reconnaissance RF-4E, so those usually fly medium-low altitude, a perfect target for the Pantsir-S, however there ain't enough details about that incident except the type of Turkish plane and the Syrian system believed to have shot it down.
Hope that answered your question

thank you sir .do you think this could happen to Egypt ?

 

[BLACKEAGLE]

Oh yea, national UAEs can't do shit on their own! lol You r 100% right there! They only got the $$$ and thats about it!
And no, jealousy has nothing to do with it bro, believe me I know!

Oh come on, UAE leadership is very smart and very ambitious, those whom we have been underestimating and laughing at are leading the Arab world in military industry, top notch small arms, UAVs, JDAMS, frigates, armoured vehicles, ammo...etc. If you say it's TOT, then it's not like Egyptians made Abrams from scratch on their own. UAE has a very very promising future. I admire their achievements in all sectors.

 

[Dino R.]

Oh come on, UAE leadership is very smart and very ambitious, those whom we have been underestimating and laughing at are leading the Arab world in military industry, top notch small arms, UAVs, JDAMS, frigates, armoured vehicles, ammo...etc. If you say it's TOT, then it's not like Egyptians made Abrams from scratch on their own. UAE has a very very promising future. I admire their achievements in all sectors.

Sorry if i offended you brother, but the UAE military industry, well, not all that as you think it is!! Sorry, but its the truth!!! And this time it is not a matter of personal opinion. Again any Arab military industry is a source of pride for us all and I wish them the best, it will only benefit us all as Arabs.

thank you sir .do you think this could happen to Egypt ?

No, not likely. The Egyptian system is a much much better one and been upgraded constantly. The Egyptians spare no expense when it comes to air defense and their system is the best in the region by far. Upgraded radars and command centers, mobile ones too, it has complexity, density and redundancy coupled with a strong fleet of combat aircrafts. The Sudanese system is a dinosaur lol and very limited.

 

[BLACKEAGLE]

Sorry if i offended you brother, but the UAE military industry, well, not all that as you think it is!! Sorry, but its the truth!!! And this time it is not a matter of personal opinion. Again any Arab military industry is a source of pride for us all and I wish them the best, it will only benefit us all as Arabs.

I'm not offended at all, I'm not even Emarati. But I think it's time for us to give them some credit. I believe of what I think of UAE military industry, as I have been closely following them in this regard. It's such a small country with big achievements. I don't care how they reached these achievements as long as it's theirs.

 

[The SC]

We have a professional here @WebMaster @Aeronaut

Regarding the analysis, I believe it's correct, but when we take UAE case into consideration, the most disadvantages of this MRLS don't really exist. in other words, mobility is a must for MRLS as they could be targeted after firing their rockets, but in UAE, there are immune top notch air defense system and air force which make targeting anything inside the country with precision guided missiles impossible from a country like Iran.

What UAE did was customizing this MRLS to suit it's need. As you mentioned, Jobaria replaces a full battery of MRLS of 30 men crew with 1 vehicle of 3 men. As you know, UAE lacks personnel and need a massive firepower to counter the threat coming from Iran which has huge personal whom could be used to invade it like they did with Iraq.

Another thing, this vehicle isn't supposed to fire all it's rockets at once, it depends on the nature of the threat.

Do you mean that the UAE has a better Iron Dome than the failed Israeli one?

 

[The SC]

Of course the Generals do know all of that and more. Like I said there are many other reasons why not the Su-35, price, political reasons, maybe the people who helped finance that deal, the Saudis and the UAE don't want Egypt to have such an advanced fighter, who knows! I'm only speaking from my own point of view, that the EAF is facing threats in Ethiopia now and the Egyptian government will have to do something about that Dam they're building there! And even if the EAF wanted more of a point-defense type of fighter, don't you think the Mig-35 with the AESA Zhuk-AE radar would have been a better choice? Price difference ain't that much! But again, I don't have the whole picture, and have built a pretty decent Integrated Air Defenses, using mostly Russian weapons for low and medium air defense, and they made the right upgrades to their old Soviet legacy sams and their radars, and they were depending only on the Patriot PAC-3 for their long range, but yes, I think they will be getting the S-300 PMU2 as it will integrate smoothly with the BUK and TOR systems they already have and even their old SA-2s. And as for the AEW role they have 8 upgraded E-2 hawkeyes but yes I agree with you, they need a better and more capable platform, however the Chinese ones won't work as they are heavily dependent on Israeli technology and I don't know how well can they be integrated with the current Egyptian systems, however the Swedish Erieye system even on a smaller Embrar jet would do fine. As for the UAVs Egypt already started licence building of a Chinese Medium Endurance UAV and they will make their way to a bigger one I'm sure, it is a must.
And yea, what happened in 1967 simply can't happen again now a days, not with the IAD systems Egypt has

If the Chinese AEW planes "won't work as they are heavily dependent on Israeli technology", this means they are Dependant on American know how and technology, since personally I do not think Israel has any tech of its own, since I have been following this matter for a long time, So these planes might just work fine for Egypt. The Swedish option is very viable too.
The S-300PMU2 in optimal quantity will make Egypt's air defenses very strong, mostly when integrated with the other low and medium air defense systems, like you mentioned.
It is difficult to understand why the Egyptian generals opted for the latest versions of the Mig-29 (although a formidable fighter), instead of the highly admired Su-35. Maybe they managed to have an AESA radar for the Migs and have these Migs custom made for the EAF. I know of a small AESA radar made by a small Russian company.
The construction of the Ethiopian Dam is a very complicated matter, with many foreign hands involved, I have mentioned before, in a different thread that I suspected the Israeli hand through it Fellashas contacts and friends in Ethiopia, since I found it a very plausible strategic move by Israel and company to weaken and threaten Egypt up to its blood veins and arteries(the Nile); it was mostly within the election of Morsi and the Muslim brotherhood at that time, but now, we can see Israel's big brothers hands more clearly.
I wish the best for Egypt and the Egyptians, it is painful to see them fighting each other after all the turmoil to have a democratically elected government.

 

[A.P. Richelieu]

If the Chinese AEW planes "won't work as they are heavily dependent on Israeli technology", this means they are Dependant on American know how and technology, since personally I do not think Israel has any tech of its own, since I have been following this matter for a long time, So these planes might just work fine for Egypt. The Swedish option is very viable too.
The S-300PMU2 in optimal quantity will make Egypt's air defenses very strong, mostly when integrated with the other low and medium air defense systems, like you mentioned.
It is difficult to understand why the Egyptian generals opted for the latest versions of the Mig-29 (although a formidable fighter), instead of the highly admired Su-35. Maybe they managed to have an AESA radar for the Migs and have these Migs custom made for the EAF. I know of a small AESA radar made by a small Russian company.
The construction of the Ethiopian Dam is a very complicated matter, with many foreign hands involved, I have mentioned before, in a different thread that I suspected the Israeli hand through it Fellashas contacts and friends in Ethiopia, since I found it a very plausible strategic move by Israel and company to weaken and threaten Egypt up to its blood veins and arteries(the Nile); it was mostly within the election of Morsi and the Muslim brotherhood at that time, but now, we can see Israel's big brothers hands more clearly.
I wish the best for Egypt and the Egyptians, it is painful to see them fighting each other after all the turmoil to have a democratically elected government.

Not sure that the Swedish Government would allow selling any military equipment to Egypt.
Swedish companies may try to, and sometimes fool the government.

On top of everything else, Egypt has insulted Sweden and needs to apologize over the affair,
when two Egyptians were extradited from Sweden to Egypt, ending up in a torture chamber,
even though Egypt promised fair treatment.

This is 100 % against the Swedish value system, and caused great embarassment for
the Swedish Government internally, and after release, the Swedish Government have paid
Millions in compensation.

Probably wont come up in a negotiation, but the Swedish Government may just quietly reject the deal.

The blame is on the Mubarak administration, so Egypt can of course blame him...

 

[A.P. Richelieu]

Democracy means allowing the bad leader to finish the term , clearly Egypt is far from Freedom
It also means reelecting a good leader

Very sad that decision of people was not respected

Fireworks were nice however

Margaret Thatcher felt forced to resign mid-term by lack of support in her own party,
and U.K. is still considered a democracy.
A true democrat understand when to leave.
Even better example is Willy Brandt, West-German Chancellor, who resigned
when it was revealed that a personal aide was spying for East-Germany.

Even if elected for a term, a true democrat will resign and seek approval for a new term,
when they screw up like Mursi. Just a poor polling result is no reason for leaving.
Hamas should have resigned several times, like the Israeli government.

Mursi obviously was an inexperienced politician.
If he had declared that he would resign, and call for new elections to confirm his leadership,
Egypt would have been in a much better situation, and he would not be in jail.

 

[The SC]

Not sure that the Swedish Government would allow selling any military equipment to Egypt.
Swedish companies may try to, and sometimes fool the government.

On top of everything else, Egypt has insulted Sweden and needs to apologize over the affair,
when two Egyptians were extradited from Sweden to Egypt, ending up in a torture chamber,
even though Egypt promised fair treatment.

This is 100 % against the Swedish value system, and caused great embarassment for
the Swedish Government internally, and after release, the Swedish Government have paid
Millions in compensation.

Probably wont come up in a negotiation, but the Swedish Government may just quietly reject the deal.

The blame is on the Mubarak administration, so Egypt can of course blame him...

There is a new government in Egypt, The Swedes know this, so the deal if Egypt is interested might still go through, by the way they have sold the system to Pakistan.
There was this submarine affair that did not work with the Germans too.
The German tanks to SA faced opposition.
Does this mean that Northern Europeans have something against the Arabs? While they pretend that the human rights record plays a big role in their defense sales, they give their best armaments for free or for a symbolic payment to Israel, the world's most notorious human rights violator apartheid entity.
Is there a lesson to be learned for the Arabs concerning this matter that most certainly hides more grievances?
At least Iran did understand this and started an overall self sufficiency program and achieved it.

There is this story of the Vikings coming to Andalusia and starting to loot villages, rape women and kill innocent people, in no time, maybe within 24 hours a huge Arab army faced them, surrounded them and killed most of them, the remaining ones, the elderly the children and the women were allowed to take their boats and go back to where they came from, they never came back again. Maybe this is still engraved in their collective memory. This is just to say that the values they are bringing up today do not belong to them, it is an irony of the times that these values belong to the Arabs who are criticized today by these looters, who are now looting history itself.