Does Turkey Benefit From Cold War With Israel?

[PteX]

Just forget that number and try to focus on the actual discussion will you? I suppose we both agree on there must have been a lot more images and videos of hours long raid. Even if you don't agree, just explain me, where is the rest of that thermal video?

How could you possibly know what was or was not photographed or captured on video? Were you there? No and neither was i.

As i said before, both the autopsy reports and your(Israel) lack of presenting proofs suggest that those people were executed.

Israel and the UN investigations both presented proofs that Israel acted with restraint and was forced to use lethal force because of the violent response of the Marmara terrorists. And, of course it is only the Turkish autopsies which i`m sure you can say is quite biased. As these "autopsies" were used to mock-sentence Israeli generals for a few thousand years in Turkish prisons.

I believe i'm asking a very basic question which you're resisting not to answer. Why Israel doesn't show us how those soldiers executed that drill. If the victims were posing a deadly threat, it would legitimize those killings, thus Israel could have saved itself from these accusations

How can you look at the dozens of videos of Marmara and not conclude that the soldiers faced a deadly threat? The activists themselves even published in which they said that they wished to become Shahids and were willing to die in order to kill Israeli soldiers? What other proof would you like?

These guys deserved it for example, but i have my rightful doubts whether the ones in the boat deserved it or not.

Every single terrorist deserves this end.

 

[TurAr]

How could you possibly know what was or was not photographed or captured on video? Were you there? No and neither was i.

The only thing we know for sure is the fact that Israel has seized all the computers, cameras, and memory cards; moreover destroyed the proofs and repaired the bullet holes in the ship before sending it back, which is a clear indication of it has something to hide.

Israel and the UN investigations both presented proofs that Israel acted with restraint and was forced to use lethal force because of the violent response of the Marmara terrorists. And, of course it is only the Turkish autopsies which i`m sure you can say is quite biased. As these "autopsies" were used to mock-sentence Israeli generals for a few thousand years in Turkish prisons.

From UN report: "Of those killed, the report noted, "no evidence has been provided to establish that any of the deceased were armed with lethal weapons"

How can you look at the dozens of videos of Marmara and not conclude that the soldiers faced a deadly threat? The activists themselves even published in which they said that they wished to become Shahids and were willing to die in order to kill Israeli soldiers? What other proof would you like?

As i've said dozens times, if the intention was killing them, they would be dead already. If you see someone is about to attack you with a stick in his hand, i wouldn't recommened you to use Mozambique Drill on him, since he might just wanted to give you a little beating after your intrusion to his ship.

Every single terrorist deserves this end.

Agreed, but it is not being the case with Israel.

 

[Chak Bamu]

@PteX, nice try mate, but you are not fooling anyone here. Defending the indefensible leads to problems in the future.

 

[500]

Cold war with Israel was initiated by Erdogan and Davutoglu who hoped to tighten relations with Syria and Iran instead. And one year later it exploded in their face.

History teaches that everyone who hopes to improve relations with Arabs at expense of Israel is losing in the end.

 

[atatwolf]

Cold war with Israel was initiated by Erdogan and Davutoglu who hoped to tighten relations with Syria and Iran instead. And one year later it exploded in their face.

History teaches that everyone who hopes to improve relations with Arabs at expense of Israel is losing in the end.

Who is "everyone" other than Turkey in your sentence?

 

[PteX]

Who is "everyone" other than Turkey in your sentence?

France, Britain, Ireland, Greece(They've changed sides now, naturally), Brazil, Spain, etc. The list is long.

 

[atatwolf]

France, Britain, Ireland, Greece(They've changed sides now, naturally), Brazil, Spain, etc. The list is long.

And what did they loose because "they had hopes to improve relations with Arabs at expense of Israel"?

Don't get me wrong. I'm just curious.

 

[500]

Who is "everyone" other than Turkey in your sentence?

For example France that declared weapon embargo on Israel after 1967 or USSR that went further and cut all diplomatic relations with Israel. Did it help them? - no, all best contracts took Brits and Americans and USSR did not get any contracts from rich Arab states at all.

You can also check Ottoman Empire that rejected Zionist offer and was backstubbed by the Arabs. If offer was accepted by 1914 there could be a half million allied Jewish state with 100 K army. The whole course of WW1 in ME could be different.

 

[TurAr]

Indeed, we have some trust issues with Arabs but that doesn't mean we can not enjoy our enormous economic relationship.
We haven't lost Syria yet, after Assad's departure and if it all goes well, the relationship between Turkey and Syria will be even better than the honeymoon era between Erdogan and Assad.
Apart from the tension that Syria caused, we also have expanding economic relationship with Iran.

The question is, what did Israel lose by cutting its relations with Turkey via some retarded diplomacy and amateur military operations...

 

[Targon]

An allied Jewish state, and enraged muslims in every part of the empire.

 

[Etiene]

Correct me if I'm wrong but my impression is that Israels foreign relations with it's most important actors is colder than it was a few years ago. Turkey is one example, Egypt, USA, Syria. @500 @PteX , what is your view on how your government handles it's foreign relations?

 

[500]

An allied Jewish state, and enraged muslims in every part of the empire.

Which Muslims? Arabs? It did not help anyway. And by the way, not all Arabs were anti Zionist:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faisal–Weizmann_Agreement

Before Brits introduced Pan Arabism Arabs did not care much about Jews settling in Palestine.

Correct me if I'm wrong but my impression is that Israels foreign relations with it's most important actors is colder than it was a few years ago. Turkey is one example, Egypt, USA, Syria. @500 @PteX , what is your view on how your government handles it's foreign relations?

Foreign policies of Israel are bad. Since we have a coalition with dozen of different parties incumbencies get populist politicians and not professionals (with few exceptions like Defence and Finance). But overall it does not depend much on Israel, but on external factors. We lose in one place and gain in another. In 1979 we signed peace with Egypt but lost Iran.

And I dont think that overall situation is bad. Israel showed itself as most stable country in Middle East, both politically and economically. Although regime in Egypt has changed, peace agreement is preserved, despied cooled relationships with Turkey trade is growing and its now higher than ever. I want also remind u, that in 1990 we had not diplomatic relationships with East Europe, Russia, India, China etc - thats more than half of the world.

 

[Targon]

Turks are muslims too you know , far more then today, do you you know the rebellions againts Grand Assambly during war of independence ? while some guys were fighting againts foreign powers, these nutcases were attacking them for religious reasons, now think what would they do if Ottoman empire herself willingly gave lands to Jews.

 

[Jamaal Yelmaaz]

Turkey-Israel relations will never be the same as the before eventough Isreal accept poltic apology. There will be no longer military exercises and military agreements. 90s and biginnings of 2000s years was a distinc era created and promped by generals and that era already over.


Mavi Marmara assult became a godsend for Turkey to some erase and clear its shame pro-Israel diplomcy past. If Im not mistaken Turkey is firts or second country recognized Israel independence and last country which recognized Algeria independence decleration in the world. What a shame..!

That assault caused Turkey to gain esteem in diplomacy arenas arround the world..Turkey began to make a major breakthrough in the defense industry and in export, tourism as well.

At the moment, neither need to escalating more the crisis nor need reconcilation with Israel.
To be ally with a notorious state just good for losing real allies and creddity.

 

[Etiene]

Which Muslims? Arabs? It did not help anyway. And by the way, not all Arabs were anti Zionist:

Faisal

Before Brits introduced Pan Arabism Arabs did not care much about Jews settling in Palestine.


Foreign policies of Israel are bad. Since we have a coalition with dozen of different parties incumbencies get populist politicians and not professionals (with few exceptions like Defence and Finance). But overall it does not depend much on Israel, but on external factors. We lose in one place and gain in another. In 1979 we signed peace with Egypt but lost Iran.

And I dont think that overall situation is bad. Israel showed itself as most stable country in Middle East, both politically and economically. Although regime in Egypt has changed, peace agreement is preserved, despied cooled relationships with Turkey trade is growing and its now higher than ever. I want also remind u, that in 1990 we had not diplomatic relationships with East Europe, Russia, India, China etc - thats more than half of the world.

My take is that you can sum up israeli foreign policy as +1 -1 = 0 .
Pun intended.