Does the PA need more troops to fight terror?

[batmannow]

Military of Iran

The Iranian Military consists of the Islamic Republic of Iran Army, Islamic Republic of Iran Navy, Islamic Republic of Iran Air Force, and the Islamic Republic of Iran Air Defenses. The regular armed forces have an estimated 820,000 personnel: the Islamic Republic of Iran Army, 650,000 personnel; the Islamic Republic of Iran Navy, 70,000 personnel; and the Islamic Republic of Iran Air Force, 100,000 airmen.The newly Islamic Republic of Iran Air Defenses is a branch split off from the IRIAF.
The Army of the Guardians of the Islamic Revolution, or Revolutionary Guards, has an estimated 125,000 personnel in five branches: Its own Navy, Air Force, and Ground Forces; and the Quds Force (Special Forces).
The Basij is a paramilitary volunteer force controlled by the Islamic Revolutionary Guards. Its membership is a matter of controversy. Iranian sources claim a membership of 12.6 million, including women, of which perhaps 3 million are combat capable. There are a claimed 2,500 battalions of which some are full-time personnel.Globalsecurity.org quotes a 2005 study by the Center for Strategic and International Studies estimating 90,000 active-duty full-time uniformed members, 300,000 reservists, and a total of 1 million men that can be mobilized if need be. Iran's military was called the Middle East's most powerful by General John Abizaid chief of United States Central Command (U.S. forces' commander in the region).

Indian Armed Forces

With an estimated total active force of 1,325,000 personnel,India maintains the world's third largest armed forces.Auxiliary services include the Indian Coast Guard, the Central Paramilitary Forces (CPF) and the Strategic Forces Command. India's official defense budget stands at US$32.35 billion but the actual spending on the armed forces is estimated to be much higher than that.Undergoing rapid expansion and modernization the Indian Armed Forces plans to have an active military space program and is currently developing a potent missile defense shieldand nuclear triad capability

People's Liberation Army[/U]

The PLA , with approximately 3 million members and has the world's largest (active) standing army, with approximately 2.25 million members [/B The PLA comprises five main service branches consisting of the PLA Ground Force, PLA Navy (PLAN), PLA Air Force (PLAAF), Second Artillery Corps (strategic nuclear or missile force), and the PLA Reserved Force. The People's Armed Police (PAP), a Chinese paramilitary force under the dual leadership of the Central Military Commission and the Ministry of Public Security, is sometimes confused as a branch of the PLA. (Both the PLA and the PAP are under the lead of Central Military Commission).

Military service is compulsory, in theory, for all men who attain the age of 18; women may register for duty in the medical, veterinary, and other technical services. However, a draft has never been enforced due to large numbers of volunteers. Demobilized servicemen are carried in a ready reserve, which is reinforced by a standby reserve of veterans and by the militia.

The PLA is formally under the command of the Central Military Commission of the CCP; there is also an identical commission in the government, but it has no clear independent functions. The Ministry of National Defense, which operates under the State Council, does not exercise any authority over the PLA and is far less powerful than the Central Military Commission. The ministry assures continuing CCP control over the armed forces, and its primary role is that of a liaison office with foreign militaries. The political and military leaderships has made a concerted effort to create a professional military force restricted to national defense and to the provision of assistance in domestic economic construction and emergency relief. This conception of the role of the PLA requires the promotion of specialized officers who can understand modern weaponry and handle combined arms operations. Troops around the country are stationed in seven military regions and more than 20 military districts.

now, with the 3 major armed players in the region , thier militry power , numbers of troops etc.
there is no logic, not increase the pakistani troops , PAKARMY is surly out numberd ,& in constant preasure because of its numeric weekness?

dear friends,
i am not saying ! that marines are the perfect model force to follow up but, even "GREEN BERETS" were not ! what we should follow but , its "GREEN BRETS" who trained our SSG in the past?


actully we need a force which , can support pakarmy in thier special role, & i guss marrines like force with extensive mountain combat traning , could be very deadly !
they canbe used , better thn of FC?

 

[batmannow]

military career school us pioneer at militry.com

Army Green Beret Training
by Stew Smith

If you want to wear the green beret of the Army Special Forces, be warned, it takes more than the ability to do hundreds of push-ups. To make it in the Special Forces of any branch of the U.S. military, you need intelligence, an outstanding record of prior military service (at least three years), and high motivation - very high. But now, a new program will enable you to go straight to the SFAS after Army Boot Camp - skipping the 3 year wait! Ask your local Army Recruiter for more details.

My next few columns are for those of you who think you have what it takes to go Special Forces. I can give you the requirements for each service and a workout that will help you get physically prepared for the advanced training. As for those other qualities, you're on your own.

Getting Into SFAS

The first step to wearing the Green Beret is to pass the Special Forces Assessment and Selection Course (SFAS). To get into this course, you must meet some basic physical fitness requirements by scoring a minimum of 260 on the Army physical fitness test for the 17-to-21 age group. Remember, that's the minimum score.

If you're serious about applying for Special Forces, however, never settle for the minimum score in anything. Since the Green Berets are so selective and competitive, it helps to stand out in as many areas as you can. I recommend that you work toward these goals in your Army PFT:

- Complete the 2-mile run in at least 12 to 14 minutes
- 100 sit-ups in 2 minutes.
- 100 push-ups in 2 minutes.

Accomplishing these goals will bring you close to a perfect score of 300 and increase your chances of being selected for SFAS.

Learn about available Special Operations opportunities.

The three-week SFAS course, taught at Fort Bragg, N.C., consists of two phases. During the first, the physical phase, you will be expected to PT (running, swimming, sit-ups, pull-ups, push-ups), run an obstacle course, and participate in rucksack marches and orienteering exercises. The second phase measures your leadership and teamwork abilities.

The Q Course

After completing SFAS, you will be selected by the Army SF instructors to attend the "Q Course," the Special Forces Qualification Course (SFQC). Depending on your occupational specialty, this course will last from 6 months to a year; the medical and communications courses last longer.

Daily training at the SFQC takes its toll on your body since your day usually starts very early and ends late. While you are training for the Q Course, you should adopt the attitude of a marathon runner. Be ready for the long haul, but take each day one at a time. Most people who quit the course lack the ability to focus through the fatigue and stress that accompanies such training.

The Workout

If Army Special Forces is your goal, here's a good starter workout that may help you reach it.

Swimming: NEVER Swim Alone

- Two to three times a week, 1,000 to 2,000 meters each time.
- One day a week, try to swim wearing cammies and boots for 100 meters.
- Wear fins when swimming half the time as well.

Running:

- Four to five times a week, 3 to 5 miles as fast as you can.
- Twice a week, do rucksack marches carrying a 30 to 50-pound load marching 5 to 15 miles at a fast walking pace.

PT: Every Other Day

- Pull-ups, 75 to 100 repetitions (seven to 10 sets of 10 reps).
- Push-ups, 200 to 300 repetitions (10 to 15 sets of 20 reps).
- Sit-ups, 200 to 300 repetitions (five to 10 sets of 40 to 50 reps).

The above workouts are samples of the Ranger and Green Beret Workout found on the Military.com Fitness eBook Store. Remember, it's always a good idea to check with your physician before starting a new exercise program, especially if you have been inactive for a long while or if you have certain medical conditions.

Visit Military.com's SpecOps Center

With any download you buy you get over 40 hours of training personally designed for future students of these Special Forces School AND access to Stew Smith (the author) for any answers to your training questions!

More Army Special Forces Articles:

- Army Special Forces Overview
- Army Green Beret Training
- Army Ranger PFT
- Preparing for Army Ranger School
- Weight Gain for Ranger School
- Army Airborne PFT
- All Army Special Forces Articles

Many of my favorite PT programs to train for the Army PFT can be found in the following Military.com links:

- Pull-ups / Flexed Arm Hang
- Pushups and Sit-ups
- Running
- Swimming
- Prepare for Ruck Marches

Other Related Army Fitness Articles:

- Army Basic Training PFT Requirements
- Army Weight Standards
- Army Fitness Workout Plan
- Army Ranger Fitness
- Performing for the Special Forces
- Physical Fitness Test Anxiety

 

[fatman17]

^^^batmannow - what are you trying to get at!

 

[Hellfire]

^^^batmannow - what are you trying to get at!

i guess trying to outline a plan to raise a dedicated anti-insurgency force similar on lines of RR and AR in India so that regular PA troops can be kept free for their main role?

I agree with him, a dedicated force structured to meet CI grid benchmarks would serve the purpose ideally.

 

[batmannow]

thanks for understanding my cause, dear hellfire sir!

Green Berets and Rangers: What's the Difference?

Bryan Curtis
Posted Monday, Sept. 24, 2001,
at 5:52 PM ET
www.slate.com

Members of the U.S. Army's Special Operations Forces--the Green Berets, the Rangers, and Delta Force--appear to have been deployed to the Middle East. Another elite group, the 82nd Airborne Division, also trains for extraordinary missions.
How do these four elite units differ, and what specifically do they do?

The Green Berets, Rangers, and Delta Force all report to Army Special Operations Command at Fort Bragg, N.C. Special Ops are specially trained teams that support conventional Army operations or undertake missions of their own when conventional troops are stymied. The 82nd Airborne reports to the Army's Forces Command, and according to a spokesperson, is currently conducting "business-as-usual" operations at Fort Bragg
The Green Berets practice "unconventional warfare" in its many forms, according to the group's Web site. The Green Berets are organized into elite commando units, each consisting of 12 members, which conduct stealth raids and ambushes. In addition to direct combat, Green Berets are trained for guerrilla war, sabotage, and subversion. An aspiring Green Beret must serve about three years in the Army before applying. From there, he enters a two-yearlong "pipeline" before being assigned to an operational group. Every Green Beret must learn to speak a foreign language.

Army Rangers are light infantrymen that perform many of the same duties as the Green Berets--raids, ambushes, and airfield seizures "by land, by sea, or by air." Any 18-year-old male may apply to the Rangers when enlisting. The specialized training takes one and a half to two years. The first Ranger battalion was activated in Carrickfergus, Ireland, in 1942.

The elite and supersecret Delta Force handles counterterrorism assignments. Quartered in a remote section of Fort Bragg, the group culls the majority of its recruits--sometimes fewer than 50 per year--from the Rangers and the Green Berets. (An ex-member estimates their ranks at fewer than 1,200.) Founded during the Carter administration, the group participated in U.S. military exercises in Somalia, Panama, and Iraq. In 1980, the group was involved in the failed attempt to rescue American hostages from Iran. In 1993, Delta Force helped Colombian authorities flush drug kingpin Pablo Escobar out of hiding. The Federal Aviation Administration recently announced plans to deputize Delta Force members for in-flight protection on domestic airliners.

The 82nd Airborne specializes in parachute assaults. All members--"from cook to computer operator"--must pass the airborne training program. After serving as an infantry unit during World War I, the division gained acclaim by participating in the largest airborne assault to date at Normandy in 1944.

Pakistan needs a force which can take TALIBANs like terrorists , & can provide PAKARMY a cover of security , in a sense that pakarmy can depend that FORCE , same as thier own troops!
Not as they are fed up with , this FC, which with all its advance training still needs , a back up from PAKARMY.
this is a perfect article which describes everything , about USA's SPECIAL FORCES , i feel sooner or later PAKISTAN needs a dedicated advanced, modernized , smartly & sufficiantly equiped force.

 

[Hellfire]

batmannow

thanks for understanding my cause,dear hellfire sir!

oh please sir you are very welcome. its a view I share but dared not put up as being an Indian the proposal would have been taken as another RAW ploy

I agree. You have plenty of officers who have undergone the Green Beret course and have the necessary knowledge and inputs to give to design the course necessary for such a force to be raised. In addition you are right in pointing out that FC's efforts need PA reinforcement. I think over here FC shall act as the holding force where as PA troops presently engaged in ops will be the primary force for the forseeable future.

You can come up with a force drawn from regular PA members which is small, highly mobile, suitably provided with body armour and agile weapons platforms for usage in CI environs and sensitise them to local cultures/expectations in the areas of operations they shall be inducted into.

It proves hell to use regular infantry troops in sustained CI grid on both moral and training and that leads to loss in your troops abilities to engage in a symmetrical conventional confrontation.

Just my opinion sir.

Thanks

PS: We have something called scouts (yeah similar to ladakh scouts whom you might have met) who actually prove very helpful. similarly the AssamRifles being a great example.

 

[JK!]

Batmannow I think a better model would be the UKs Special Forces Support Group.

This consists of personnel from units like the Parachute Regiment, Royal Marines and RAF Regiment.

They provide infantry type support to units like the SAS and SBS and can be considered an Elite unit more so than their parent units.

Enjoy the info at this link: Special Forces Support Group | SFSG

 

[Hellfire]

Batmannow I think a better model would be the UKs Special Forces Support Group.

This consists of personnel from units like the Parachute Regiment, Royal Marines and RAF Regiment.

They provide infantry type support to units like the SAS and SBS and can be considered an Elite unit more so than their parent units.

Enjoy the info at this link: Special Forces Support Group | SFSG

precisely JK

the aim is to recruit from regular infantry/combat units, otherwise its just another Paramilitary force

RR is same. AR is trained on similar lines in IA institutions only .

 

[RescueRanger]

Pakistan already has a well defined structure and we do not need to look at any additional structures. No need to re-invent the wheel so to speak. Instead police and civil protection units along with humint resources and community intelligence utilisation should be developed and strengthened.

Schools, Colleges, NGOs and Businesses should play their part in promoting citizenship, and a department for homeland security should be developed on the basis of US DHS.

A set of new powers should be promulgated regarding intelligence operations and anti terrorism. The Pakistani army already has 1 Million + staff and a full time standing army of 550,000.

Our Anti Terrorism assets are being developed and this step is in the process. Pakistan boasts some of the best trained EOD(Explosive Ordinance Disposal) technicians in the region, Afghan, Iraqi, Kuwait and Saudi police often come to Pakistan to undergo advanced investigative training at National Police Academy, Islamabad.

SSG have received anti terrorism and counter-insurgency training by US Military and UK SAS. The Police, Rangers and ATS have received training in Anti Terrorism, Crisis Response, Hostage Negotiation, Post Blast Investigation and Crime Scene Management under the US. State Dept Anti Terrorism Assistance Program.

We should not try to think that the military will re-invent the wheel; this is a pipe dream and will never happen. Mashallah we have a very powerful and capable standing army. It is very easy for a snotty nosed journalist/analyst to say that (we are not trained in CI/AT Ops), this is a total fallacy.

So far the reason we have been having problems was the constant reliance on the Frontier Constabulary, rather then using full time professional soldiers. FC (not Frontier Corps) are just like regular police, they are not trained or equipped any better then police in Combat.

If you think I am talking out of my hat, please take a visit the Frontier Constabulary camp outside the Marriott in Islamabad, you can clearly see their tasks are limited to security and peace enforcement.

They are not designed or trained, or equipped for combat operations in very hostile terrain (terrain that is very helpful for the opposing force).

Foreign and local observers with little understanding of such facts are quick to come to the conclusion, "our army is incapable", just like they witness fire fighters tackle a fire with limited equipment and claim "they are not capable".

Just to being to the board members attention, on International Fire Fighter’s day, some important guest on a Pakistani channel (ARYONE) was happily claiming that the Pakistan Fire and Rescue services are useless.

He was happily citing the secondary fire at the Marriot during its reconstruction and how the Islamabad Fire Brigade was a useless force. Now I am a reasonable man, but hear this on national made me feel like wanting to throttle his neck.

They don’t have any knowledge and just make-up things for public consumption. The Islamabad Fire & Rescue services are one of the best trained rescue services in Asia.

Members have received training from Singapore (world famous civil defence academy), the team’s Urban Search and Rescue team has been trained by UK Fire & Rescue services = UKUSAR.COM and also developed by SARSA (Swedish Rescue Services).

Islamabad Fire and Rescue service has the Bronto “Sky Lift” the highest fire fighting platform in the world

Islamabad also has a world standard rescue simulation centre and the team recently participated successfully in the (UN INSARAG: International Search and Rescue Advisory Group) mock disaster exercise in Nepal.

The point I am trying to make is, we have the capacity, we just don’t know that it exists… I can go on for hours on this, but I think I have made my point. What we need to do as a nation is show solidarity with out government, with our military and play our own part (no matter how small) to helping counter terrorism.

A proactive approach will involve "Counter Terrorism": Policy, Practices, Community Involvement & "Anti Terrorism": Police, Intelligence, Legal Actions and Military Operations.

Just my two cents.

 

[JK!]

A very useful insight RescueRanger and I agree that all institutions be they civil or military should be strengthened to help tackle militancy.

 

[niaz]

how many troops pakistan need to counter some 2000 talibans ?..........

what high-tech weapon talibans has , so pakistan keep asking for militery add from US to counter them........?

Pakistan is just try to make fool of US....

There are nearly 700,000 Indian security force personnel in the occupied Kashmir to control no more than 5,000 freedom fighters. On this basis with 2,000 Taliban fighters, PA would require some 300,000 troops. On the other hand IMO total number of PA troops in the FATA and NWFP areas is closer to 40,000.

Besides, IA has been fighting in the IOK for last 30 years therefore is far more experienced in mountain warefare. Let us also not forget that poorly armed Vietcong defeated the mighty US army and USSR broke up as a result of the defeat in Afghanistan.

I am sorry to bring IA in this discussion, but your post has insulting "innuendos" which I could not pass without a response.

 

[RescueRanger]

how many troops pakistan need to counter some 2000 talibans?..........

what high-tech weapon talibans has , so pakistan keep asking for militery add from US to counter them........?

Pakistan is just try to make fool of US....

Please stop trolling... Your post above is totally devoid of any logical structure and you clearly failed to put across any argument, so just claimed "Pakistan is just trying to make "fool" of US"...

Listen up chump, No one, let alone Pakistan can make a fool of the ONLY hypo power in the world, so you can stop right there.

Secondly, when we "claim" they have sophisticated weapons, these are not limited to small arms but include sophisticated small arms including fuel enhanced IED's, Splatter Charges, Anfo filled donkeys (yes ammonium nitrate filled donkey carcases).

More conventional weapons include the deployment of Anti Aircraft, Anti Armour, Mortar and Anti Personnel Devices. Taliban Foot soliders have been captured with Handheld GPS and detailed 1:10,000 and 1:25,000 maps of the region.

They have also discovered that certain foreign members even keep dry rations in their backpacks for long range recon. Taliban commanders have been captured using IMARSAT communication kit (very sophisticated one at that).

The millitants have dug a series of tunnels for Escape and Evasion, these tunnels also function as weapons cache's and give the added advantage of tactical movement.

Millitants use a effective mixture of Suppressive Fire, Harrasing Fire, delebrate attack and sucicide mission. Now if that is not a sophisticated enemy that i dont know what is....

 

[Xeric]

Hey this tutu guy is quick at changing locations. Initially was an indian siting in israel, just after an hour he is an israeli 'siting' in india.

What a transition only after one reply by Niaz, imagine what would he do if some others also jump in!

@tutu: Decide for once an all about your nationality and locations, and let us know so that we can 'deal' with you accordingly

 

[Ratus Ratus]

RR:
Possibly this is the underlying problem to many situations.
The point I am trying to make is, we have the capacity, we just don’t know that it exists

naiz:
This:
Let us also not forget that poorly armed Vietcong defeated the mighty US army
Is a very simplistic approach to the whole Vietnam war.

If you care to look at it in an overall picture the US and its allies were not defeated militarily by the VC or NVA. They were defeated by homeland politics.
On a military point I have a few problems thinking of any military defeats the Australians had, and that includes Long Tan, FSB CORAL, FSB BALMORAL and a few other little clashes. On the US side the only one that may get close to a defeat was Khe Sanh. Though the base was not overtaken and a relief force broke through. No real NVA win there either.
Don't simplify for the sake a trivial attempt at point scoring.

 

[Hellfire]

RescueRanger

Pakistan already has a well defined structure and we do not need to look at any additional structures. No need to re-invent the wheel so to speak. Instead police and civil protection units along with humint resources and community intelligence utilisation should be developed and strengthened.

Your well defined structure is severely and critically maimed by your limitations in operating in nn-conventional battlefield. While you have no doubt great experience in running an insurgency, to fight is a different aspect altogether. As such, the FC is poorly structured/trained to deal with insurgencies as has been exhibited till date. The present phase of success is primarily due to employment of overwhelming force by PA and the approach adopted by Talibs to fight in a convetional manner and hold territory. This will change as the Talibs realise that they have to contend now with PA and NOT FC, PA being a force trained to engage in and execute a convetional battle. The same was seen of US in Afghanistan too.


Schools, Colleges, NGOs and Businesses should play their part in promoting citizenship, and a department for homeland security should be developed on the basis of US DHS.

All these can only play a significant role in a secure environ, which can only be enforced and created by ensuring security and stability in miliatry terms.


Our Anti Terrorism assets are being developed and this step is in the process. Pakistan boasts some of the best trained EOD(Explosive Ordinance Disposal) technicians in the region,

Do you know how to deal with IEDs? You need on-the-job training for that .......


We should not try to think that the military will re-invent the wheel; this is a pipe dream and will never happen. Mashallah we have a very powerful and capable standing army. It is very easy for a snotty nosed journalist/analyst to say that (we are not trained in CI/AT Ops), this is a total fallacy.

US has a far superior army and there are no two perspectives on this......and we see them in Afghanistan still struggling to enforce that elusive peace

So far the reason we have been having problems was the constant reliance on the Frontier Constabulary, rather then using full time professional soldiers. FC (not Frontier Corps) are just like regular police, they are not trained or equipped any better then police in Combat.

on one hand you say that you have all the set up necessary for CI ops and now this? Do you know the cost of inducting a regular infantry battalion into a. clearing and b. holding ground (which includes policing the locals too) in terms of blunting of its capabilities to wage conventional war?

If you think I am talking out of my hat, please take a visit the Frontier Constabulary camp outside the Marriott in Islamabad, you can clearly see their tasks are limited to security and peace enforcement.

No, am not thinking that. But your approach is certainly too ill-informed at best.

They are not designed or trained, or equipped for combat operations in very hostile terrain (terrain that is very helpful for the opposing force).

What is the role of FC then?

Foreign and local observers with little understanding of such facts are quick to come to the conclusion, "our army is incapable", just like they witness fire fighters tackle a fire with limited equipment and claim "they are not capable".

Who has said incapable? They are. But they shall take time to orient towards CI ops ......


He was happily citing the secondary fire at the Marriot during its reconstruction and how the Islamabad Fire Brigade was a useless force. Now I am a reasonable man, but hear this on national made me feel like wanting to throttle his neck.

Does this reaction of yours serve to highlight the effectiveness of your services?