Does the Muslim community deserve the hate they're getting ?

[Vapnope]

Here also there is a genuine problem. Out of the four major schools, only the Hanafis give us the 'privilege' of being under the Dhimmi status. It is good that most Indians here follow this, but the issue remains. Nobody with any knowledge will confuse the Islamic community to be a monolith. It is not. But that does not remove the issues that people face.

Sarthak, I totally agree with you that people face issues, however Islam is not bound 4 fiqh as people think. Even in the Hanafi fiqh you will find the different versions.
I haven't seen followers of classic shia islam calling non muslims dhimmies.

There is nothing in his statements that says that Islam is a monolith.

The statement i am not agreeing with is that "Salafis/wahabis follow Quran correctly while others don't".
Other school of thoughts take Quran seriously as well, however the difference remains that is literal or figurative interpretation.

 

[SarthakGanguly]

Sarthak, I totally agree with you that people face issues, however Islam is not bound 4 fiqh as people think. Even in the Hanafi fiqh you will find the different versions.
I haven't seen followers of classic shia islam calling non muslims dhimmies.


The statement i am not agreeing with is that "Salafis/wahabis follow Quran correctly while others don't".
Other school of thoughts take Quran seriously as well, however the difference remains that is literal or figurative interpretation.

Technically you are correct for the first para.
For the second - not just the Quran (I am not counting the Quranists here), the Sahi Hadiths for instance - these cannot be ignored. What you are saying is that the text should be read figuratively. And not literally. But this trait is found only in Oriental philosophies (and to an extent in Sufi mysticism).
The Islamic scriptures should be taken literally, except when the context is overarching (since its not chronological by default). The simplicity of the 'message' has always been it 'strong' point. There is a debate about this, but if you compare the actions of the rightly guided for instance - literal interpretation seems like the way to go.
Whether it needs fine tuning now for today's context is for those practicing it today to figure out.

 

[T-72M1]

Also that some of the text really doesn't leave a lot to the imagination, there's just not a lot of different ways in which one can interpret them. For the salafis, they (the texts) are clear as day because they are clear as day.

In the end it does boil down to how seriously people take those texts.

Simple test for you @Vapnope .. do you believe gays and lesbians should be killed ?

if yes, then you're going by those texts.

if no, you're in direct defiance of the will of Allah.

 

[MultaniGuy]

Well the Sunni Muslims are a monolith.

You are not supposed to call yourself Hanafi, Shafi, etc.
In Sunni Islam, you are not supposed to divide yourself in sects.

 

[Vapnope]

Technically you are correct for the first para.
For the second - not just the Quran (I am not counting the Quranists here), the Sahi Hadiths for instance - these cannot be ignored. What you are saying is that the text should be read figuratively. And not literally. But this trait is found only in Oriental philosophies (and to an extent in Sufi mysticism).
The Islamic scriptures should be taken literally, except when the context is overarching (since its not chronological by default). The simplicity of the 'message' has always been it 'strong' point. There is a debate about this, but if you compare the actions of the rightly guided for instance - literal interpretation seems like the way to go.
Whether it needs fine tuning now for today's context is for those practicing it today to figure out.

Since we are talking about today's world hence the mu'tazila or the sufis and mysticism will be alien to people now. All Of them believed in Quran not in hadith, even the salafis like Javed Ghamidi do not believe Hadith as others do. The problem starts when you decide to translate Quran using hadith not the other way around.

Simple test for you @Vapnope .. do you believe gays and lesbians should be killed ?

Even the Quran doesn't call for killing of homosexuals, though you can agree that Somehow Quran doesn't acknowledge homosexuality. It is hadith which calls for killing, and just for record hadith was collected 150-200 years after the death of Prophet.
You might have heard about mu'tazila.

 

[AUz]

Lol, what an idiot.

The OP just mumbo Jumbo's right wing talking points without much nuanced. He probably saw few youtube videos and got influenced easily due to lack of his own intellectual development under a modern education system. What a farce.

Muslim community is pretty well integrated..especially in countries like U.S..and increasingly in Europe.

What right-wing and anti-Muslim idiots mean by 'integration' is that Muslims give up Islam completely and just become just another wanna be whites like many indians and East Asians in Western world. That is not happening and that's why right wing nuts are desperate.

@TheLahoriGuy stop being an imbecile and develop your child-like brain into something that can grasp the nuance of the ongoing debate about any particular topic.

And oh, while you are at it...have your real flags on display, please.

(Run a IP check on this loser, ya'll )

 

[TheLahoriGuy]

Lol, what an idiot.

The OP just mumbo Jumbo's right wing talking points without much nuanced. He probably saw few youtube videos and got influenced easily due to lack of his own intellectual development under a modern education system. What a farce.

Muslim community is pretty well integrated..especially in countries like U.S..and increasingly in Europe.

What right-wing and anti-Muslim idiots mean by 'integration' is that Muslims give up Islam completely and just become just another wanna be whites like many indians and East Asians in Western world. That is not happening and that's why right wing nuts are desperate.

@TheLahoriGuy stop being an imbecile and develop your child-like brain into something that can grasp the nuance of the ongoing debate about any particular topic.

And oh, while you are at it...have your real flags on display, please.

(Run a IP check on this loser, ya'll )

Lol what a typical dumbass approach you took to my worlds. You can take the black pill or stay in your wonderland. "He's being critical of our mistakes so he must be false flagger". Please do run that IP check on me. I'm fact PM me and I'll give you my address and we can talk this over some tea .
Your intellectual level is on parr with the tinfoil jahil group who think everything is Jewish conspiracy and anyone who says otherwise is RAA ka agent.

According to you our communities are well integrated in the west. Is that why they create their own ghettos. Or explode every other month ? Don't throw empty words.

Bring up some facts into your " argument".

 

[313ghazi]

Lol, what an idiot.

The OP just mumbo Jumbo's right wing talking points without much nuanced. He probably saw few youtube videos and got influenced easily due to lack of his own intellectual development under a modern education system. What a farce.

Muslim community is pretty well integrated..especially in countries like U.S..and increasingly in Europe.

What right-wing and anti-Muslim idiots mean by 'integration' is that Muslims give up Islam completely and just become just another wanna be whites like many indians and East Asians in Western world. That is not happening and that's why right wing nuts are desperate.

@TheLahoriGuy stop being an imbecile and develop your child-like brain into something that can grasp the nuance of the ongoing debate about any particular topic.

And oh, while you are at it...have your real flags on display, please.

(Run a IP check on this loser, ya'll )

There is no point arguing with these people. I provided tonnes of evidence to counter OP and some other half wit responded by suggesting I'm an Al Queda operative because of my username lol

 

[AUz]

Lol what a typical dumbass approach you took to my worlds. You can take the black pill or stay in your wonderland. "He's being critical of our mistakes so he must be false flagger". Please do run that IP check on me. I'm fact PM me and I'll give you my address and we can talk this over some tea .
Your intellectual level is on parr with the tinfoil jahil group who think everything is Jewish conspiracy and anyone who says otherwise is RAA ka agent.

According to you our communities are well integrated in the west. Is that why they create their own ghettos. Or explode every other month ? Don't throw empty words.

Bring up some facts into your " argument".

An idiot teenager that uses the word "blackpill" (alt-right virgins lingo from sub-reddits) and expects me to bring 'facts' into arguments

Everyone who has ACTUALLY lived in the Western world (not like your wanna be burger virgin ***) knows that you are writing typical right-wing talking points. "Ghettos"? "integration" "black pill" .....Hell, you even copy exact words to the ditto! Talk about wanna be fob trying to be "kewwwlll"

There are no Muslim 'ghettos' in Europe, let alone America.

In U.S, Muslims are educated..urbanized..and wealthy...more so than general population according to many surveys. So a model minority.

http://www.pewforum.org/religious-landscape-study/ (Go through the most comprehensive breakdown of religious communities by PEW)

Yet, you see a lot of right-wing christian hating Muslim community in U.S. Why is that?

Yeah little pinky from Lahore....that's because Muslim-Americans have not left Islam behind like many in the white establishment would want us to. Muslim-Americans have retained, to a large extent, their values and cultural outlook and it infuriates idiots here.

God, stop parroting points of right-wing youtube channels and get out of your mama's bedroom for once and go play outside. Socially awkward losers like you spend all day on the internet and then think they know anything about real life.

The same white-nationalist points you are repeating---they f*cking hate people like you. They wouldn't care tiny bits if your family is bombed. They see you less human than them. Stop being a little piece of shit and get some experience in life...preferably outside of internet forums, loser.

@lastofthepatriots You have lived your life in U.S too...please tell our burger wanna be how Muslims have formed their 'ghettos' in U.S and we don't "integrate"....lmao!

There is no point arguing with these people. I provided tonnes of evidence to counter OP and some other half wit responded by suggesting I'm an Al Queda operative because of my username lol

Funny thing is, they have probably never stepped foot outside of their homes without their mama's permission---and they are trying to educate us about 'Muslim community' in Western world.

Lol, bitchass skunk (@TheLahoriGuy), we have been LIVING HERE FOR YEARS!!! We KNOW what's the situation here first hand. What would YOU know?

 

[TheLahoriGuy]

An idiot teenager that uses the word "blackpill" (alt-right virgins lingo from sub-reddits) and expects me to bring 'facts' into arguments

Everyone who has ACTUALLY lived in the Western world (not like your wanna be burger virgin ***) knows that you are writing typical right-wing talking points. "Ghettos"? "integration" "black pill" .....Hell, you even copy exact words to the ditto! Talk about wanna be fob trying to be "kewwwlll"

There are no Muslim 'ghettos' in Europe, let alone America.

In U.S, Muslims are educated..urbanized..and wealthy...more so than general population according to many surveys. So a model minority.

http://www.pewforum.org/religious-landscape-study/ (Go through the most comprehensive breakdown of religious communities by PEW)

Yet, you see a lot of right-wing christian hating Muslim community in U.S. Why is that?

Yeah little pinky from Lahore....that's because Muslim-Americans have not left Islam behind like many in the white establishment would want us to. Muslim-Americans have retained, to a large extent, their values and cultural outlook and it infuriates idiots here.

God, stop parroting points of right-wing youtube channels and get out of your mama's bedroom for once and go play outside. Socially awkward losers like you spend all day on the internet and then think they know anything about real life.

The same white-nationalist points you are repeating---they f*cking hate people like you. They wouldn't care tiny bits if your family is bombed. They see you less human than them. Stop being a little piece of shit and get some experience in life...preferably outside of internet forums, loser.

@lastofthepatriots You have lived your life in U.S too...please tell our burger wanna be how Muslims have formed their 'ghettos' in U.S and we don't "integrate"....lmao!



Funny thing is, they have probably never stepped foot outside of their homes without their mama's permission---and they are trying to educate us about 'Muslim community' in Western world.

Lol, bitchass skunk (@TheLahoriGuy), we have been LIVING HERE FOR YEARS!!! We KNOW what's the situation here first hand. What would YOU know?

Your overuse of emojis and constant trying to demean by using terms like 'burger' 'Virgin' and then your slow descent towards your true nature of basically just being a first gen frustrated person who can't realise he's being shit on by literally everyone. Real life chorro bhai aapnay tou apni aukaat internet pay hee dikhadi.

You haven't answered my questions bro.
Why is Muslim immigration being halted around the world ?
Why are mosques coming in under surveillance ?
Why are you guys driving your vans into people and exploding ?
Why is the Muslim community the ONLY community still prone to radicalization.

Answer these questions with balls or don't bother replying please.

 

[livingdead]

The question is too broad, but I think you dont mean parts of the world where muslims have traditional feud with non muslims(india, part of africa, asia or balkans)...
if you focus on west, which was relatively at east with muslims till 9/11, part of hatred is due to islamic terrorism(which is fueled by political reality in many parts of the world) and partly because of racism.
For example lot of noise on internet about british pakistani pedo gangs, in an ordinary person's mind it tick two boxes, brown people are rapey, and muslims are pedos.

 

[lastofthepatriots]

An idiot teenager that uses the word "blackpill" (alt-right virgins lingo from sub-reddits) and expects me to bring 'facts' into arguments

Everyone who has ACTUALLY lived in the Western world (not like your wanna be burger virgin ***) knows that you are writing typical right-wing talking points. "Ghettos"? "integration" "black pill" .....Hell, you even copy exact words to the ditto! Talk about wanna be fob trying to be "kewwwlll"

There are no Muslim 'ghettos' in Europe, let alone America.

In U.S, Muslims are educated..urbanized..and wealthy...more so than general population according to many surveys. So a model minority.

http://www.pewforum.org/religious-landscape-study/ (Go through the most comprehensive breakdown of religious communities by PEW)

Yet, you see a lot of right-wing christian hating Muslim community in U.S. Why is that?

Yeah little pinky from Lahore....that's because Muslim-Americans have not left Islam behind like many in the white establishment would want us to. Muslim-Americans have retained, to a large extent, their values and cultural outlook and it infuriates idiots here.

God, stop parroting points of right-wing youtube channels and get out of your mama's bedroom for once and go play outside. Socially awkward losers like you spend all day on the internet and then think they know anything about real life.

The same white-nationalist points you are repeating---they f*cking hate people like you. They wouldn't care tiny bits if your family is bombed. They see you less human than them. Stop being a little piece of shit and get some experience in life...preferably outside of internet forums, loser.

@lastofthepatriots You have lived your life in U.S too...please tell our burger wanna be how Muslims have formed their 'ghettos' in U.S and we don't "integrate"....lmao!



Funny thing is, they have probably never stepped foot outside of their homes without their mama's permission---and they are trying to educate us about 'Muslim community' in Western world.

Lol, bitchass skunk (@TheLahoriGuy), we have been LIVING HERE FOR YEARS!!! We KNOW what's the situation here first hand. What would YOU know?

I don't engage with Pakistani libs or idiots. It's gotten me banned before. All I can say is that they might be up for a surprise out of their defence colonies.

 

[prashantazazel]

According to the Qur'an, the only religion acceptable to Allah is Islam.

What is your point?

Islam and Hinduism are not equal. When you accept Islam, you accept Islam as the only truth.

That should have been obvious.

Agreed. And this is why you will have problems with atheists, Hindus, Christians, Jews, Buddhists, etc.
You can't consider others inferior and expect them to like/tolerate you.

Wrong comparison. Someone who believes in his religion and believes it is the truth does not make him a mad person.

An insane person should not be wielding an ak-47 in the first place.

Religion is increasingly being considered a delusion in Psychiatric circles.

 

[MultaniGuy]

Agreed. And this is why you will have problems with atheists, Hindus, Christians, Jews, Buddhists, etc.
You can't consider others inferior and expect them to like/tolerate you.


Religion is increasingly being considered a delusion in Psychiatric circles.

Religion is not considered a delusion by psychiatrists you baboon!

If you accept Islam, then you believe it is the only truth.

This should have been obvious from the beginning.

 

[fitpOsitive]

Its a well known fact that around the world the Muslim community is the one that least integrates into the societies where they live. They create ghettos and their own little worlds where they only interact with each other and can at times be hostile towards the locals (irony).
Especially for the Muslim communities in the west , radicalisation is turning out to be a huge problem. At first this was only an issue at home and the middle east but now its hitting every part of the European world as well as North America. They've lost thousands in the past few years because of these terrorist activities.
And perhaps not just terrorism but overall criminal and uncivilised conduct by the community (and yes this usually involves a small amount but they're the ones who stand out ) has really blotted our image on a global scale. The influx of Muslims in Germany showed a spike in sexual assaults and other crimes. British Muslims are known to adopt this behavior (as suggested by another thread some days ago). Local clerics March around the cities calling for the implementation of sharia law.
Which brings me to the question in hand. Do we deserve to be hated ?

Well sir all you have written shows the material under the influence of which you have written such things which media actually is trying to put in every mouth. Lets see how things actually are.

Its a well known fact that around the world the Muslim community is the one that least integrates into the societies where they live. They create ghettos and their own little worlds where they only interact with each other and can at times be hostile towards the locals (irony).

Its well known news on media actually. Every community that is hated in any society/country form such ghettos, be they are Jews in pre-WWII Germany, american Blacks, Mexicans in USA or Beharis in Bangladesh. So, this is not particular with muslims only. So why you think only muslims do this? (again media BS)

(and yes this usually involves a small amount but they're the ones who stand out ) has really blotted our image on a global scale.

Actually previously it were communists who were bad guys. Now its our turn. So be patient. We know what is happening, and who is doing what.

The influx of Muslims in Germany showed a spike in sexual assaults and other crimes.

But you didn't mention on who? On Germans or on refugees? (again media BS)
http://harvardpolitics.com/hprgument-posts/sexual-assault-in-refugee-camps/

Local clerics March around the cities calling for the implementation of sharia law.

Why don't these clerics march in their own countries? May be they don't get paid for such marches in muslim countries hmm? Like ISIS only attacks muslims countries. And most of the times kills muslims.

Which brings me to the question in hand. Do we deserve to be hated ?

Now, I am 100% sure you are not muslim. Why you wrote all that BS, pretending to be musss? Haan?

We muslims, whether love non-muslims or not, why it concerns the non-muslim world? Do they give immigration, job or asylum based on our religion? (in reality now they are doing it). But it really doesn't matter whether we muslims love all others or not. It really shouldn't. The way america and these Europeans treated Iraq, Afghanistan and muslims around the globe doesn't leave a good impact on us at all, either.
And btw, as a rule of thumb, the more a country or community hates her minorities, the more it is prone/fore seeing to/the economic failure. You will hardly notice any hate against minorities in the countries, whose nationals think that their country is thriving and there is no/very low chance of economic failure in near future.