Does the Muslim community deserve the hate they're getting ?

[313ghazi]

One question for you before the OP answers yours -- your nick/handle suggests that you are an Al-Qaeda-Pak op, or at least one of their passive/active supporter / sympathizer. Your nick alone kills any purpose of either answering you / or / debating with you.

Yeah sure. The symbolism of the 313 at Badr is exclusive to Al Queda not Islam.

Ghazi is not a common term used to describe veterans of war in Muslim history or cultures. It's also not the name of a Pakistani navy submarine, rather it is a scout badge for Al Queda.

Finally the emblem displayed as my avatar is not that of the SSG but probably a special isis one right?

It's incredible how brainless some people are.

 

[TheLahoriGuy]

vans are also driven on Muslim crowds by cristans in europe so if use this logic christans are terrorists

When exactly did this happen ? Did the guy have allegiance to a Christian religious group ? Did he even do it for religious reasons ?

 

[Raider 21]

The first step in solving a problem is recognizing there is one. So Great! Do 'Muslims' deserve the hate, No. Do Islamist spreading hate deserve the hate, Yes. The problem is the silence of moderate Muslims. Moderate Muslims need not only to stand apart but actually be the first line of defense and offence against radicals and fundamentalists in the community.

I believe not all can do that, one cannot have a spokesman specifically for a moderate Muslim community as there are too many. However, there are many who have denounced radicals and fundamentalists in the community, yet those are not worthy enough for ratings on the news channels. Bad news is catchy and sells better.....today it is Muslim hate.....tomorrow it might be Hindu beef stripping or Game of Thrones spoilers....

 

[A.P. Richelieu]

vans are also driven on Muslim crowds by cristans in europe so if use this logic christans are terrorists

I have not stated that Muslims == Terrorists, so no You cannot use my comments
to make a racist statement.

As far as I remember, a Muslim Crowd have been attacked once, by a single man.
This was rightly condemned as a terrorist act.
What makes You claim the terrorist was a Christian?

To outsiders it for sure appears that Muslims tend to blame non Muslims for everything.
THAT was strengthened by Your comment.

When exactly did this happen ? Did the guy have allegiance to a Christian religious group ? Did he even do it for religious reasons ?

As I see it, such terrorist attacks are simply acts of revenge.

In the Stockholm van attack, the perpetrator said he was out to kill non-Muslims.
A revenge act will then repeat the attack, but against Muslims.

I do not think the attack is for a cause, rather against a cause (Muslim presence)

The logic of the terrorist van attacks is generally flawed,
since they kill Muslims as well.

 

[I.R.A]

With Islam the problem is similar to the two above. The Moderate 'Muslims' exist because they water down their obligations - with some excuses and some - what they call...being practical. The so called extremists are actually following it EXACTLY as the 'rightly guided' ones did 1400 years back. It makes two equally damaging (for the rest of the world) claims - one is that it is the FINAL message (meaning no reform is possible) and second is that there is no OTHER GOD but Allah. That removes ANY chance for a common meeting ground of different religions. To do that both sides need to compromise. I can ask a Muslim to accept my form of worship to be equivalent to his/hers. But that would violate his/her first pillar - the Tawheed. Those not well educated about theology may go ahead and shake hands. But it is the more educated among the Muslims who are the ones who become so called terrorist masterminds.

The problem with asking for reform also comes from this. There can be no reform because - IT IS THE FINAL message and FOR ALL TIME. Reformists will have to dilute the message, thereby making themselves apostates in the process.

So called Islamists take inspiration from the same book that so called Liberal Muslims do. Only the latter quote more from the Meccan verses while the former do from the Medinan. In fact, theologically and strictly speaking - the former actually are more 'correct'.

Gems ................ of ignorance ............ deliberate, well worded with an agenda ...... ignorance.

This is the most rational point in this discussion.

People are fine but if they believe in Quran then that is another case, that is what he is actually saying.

He like any other sanghi is the self appointed expert on Quran and its message ......... he has this delusion that his understanding and grip is even better than the Muslims themselves.
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What is OP's understanding of Muslim community?

 

[SALMAN F]

Muslims hate everybody do yes they even hate each other

 

[Vapnope]

Islam is not defined by some hypothetical book. It is defined by the practice of its followers.
Essentially you do not want to own responsibility for any of the hard problems

The problem with your statement is the typical problem which is that Islam is being considered a monolith. Anyone not familiar with various school of thoughts in Islam (all based on Quran) is bound to consider it a monolith.

People are fine but if they believe in Quran then that is another case, that is what he is actually saying.

I totally disagree with him there. Anyone not familiar with various school of thoughts within the Islam is bound to believe this fallacy.

 

[wiseone2]

The problem with your statement is the typical problem which is that Islam is being considered a monolith. Anyone not familiar with various school of thoughts in Islam (all based on Quran) is bound to consider it a monolith.

I hear you. the loudest and ugliest define the face of every religion or every nationality

 

[Kinetic]

Its a well known fact that around the world the Muslim community is the one that least integrates into the societies where they live. They create ghettos and their own little worlds where they only interact with each other and can at times be hostile towards the locals (irony).

Especially for the Muslim communities in the west , radicalisation is turning out to be a huge problem. At first this was only an issue at home and the middle east but now its hitting every part of the European world as well as North America. They've lost thousands in the past few years because of these terrorist activities.

And perhaps not just terrorism but overall criminal and uncivilised conduct by the community (and yes this usually involves a small amount but they're the ones who stand out ) has really blotted our image on a global scale. The influx of Muslims in Germany showed a spike in sexual assaults and other crimes. British Muslims are known to adopt this behavior (as suggested by another thread some days ago). Local clerics March around the cities calling for the implementation of sharia law.

Which brings me to the question in hand. Do we deserve to be hated ?

LOL almost in every post I can see religious attacks on non-Muslims on this forum itself, They hates other's religions. What do you expect? Muslims are getting isolated.


But one strange thing is China, China crack-downed heavily on Muslims by banning burqa , asking to download minority app etc, but surprisingly the same religious extremists don't even write a single post about that! Their balls suddenly goes off, thinking its China. hehehe

 

[A.P. Richelieu]

The problem with your statement is the typical problem which is that Islam is being considered a monolith. Anyone not familiar with various school of thoughts in Islam (all based on Quran) is bound to consider it a monolith.


I totally disagree with him there. Anyone not familiar with various school of thoughts within the Islam is bound to believe this fallacy.

There is nothing in his statements that says that Islam is a monolith.
Everyone knows that Islam is split into Shia and Sunni, and quite a bit more knows there are a number of other subgroups.
Islam does not have a central authority, so anyone can create their own interpretation
including ISIS and Boko Haram.

 

[SarthakGanguly]

He like any other sanghi is the self appointed expert on Quran and its message ......... he has this delusion that his understanding and grip is even better than the Muslims themselves.

Yes. You have understood me pretty fine. And yes, I do have a better grip on it than many Muslims. One advantage is this - Islam makes a good claim - that the message is direct. So anybody can understand. I don't buy into the 'you need to learn Arabic ONLY to study it'. By that logic no study of any religion would have been possible. All people would have had to learn Sanskrit, Latin etc. So many critics of Hinduism also abound. Do they know Sanskrit or even Pali/Brahmi?
The majority don't. Secondary peer reviewed research is good as well.

Amazing rant but it is absolute nonsense.

You have clearly failed to understand these extremists, their actions on the ground, their origins and what they actually want to achieve. Instead, you have taken their propaganda along with right-wing propaganda, both at face value, and added the usual nauseating attempt to teach moderate Muslims all about their religion.

ISIS' main objectives are to exasperate the Sunni-Shia divide in order to halt Iranian influence in Iraq and Syria. Barring the odd attack in Europe, vast majority of their attacks (and victims) are against Muslims in Syria and Iraq, the supporters of Assad government and certain opposition parties in Iraq. They have been known to kill Sunnis and Shias indiscriminately depending on the political narrative.
None of this can be explained by your half baked lazy religion inspired reasoning based on a tiny number of attacks in Europe that are most likely lone wolf attacks by wannabe ISIS idiots who barely understand what ISIS are up to in the middle east.

Do actual research on ISIS and spare us your pseudo intellectual tripe on moderate Muslims

The attacks are irrelevant. The ideology that demands such action is important here.
How many gauraksha attacks have happened? 2? 3? In a year?
But is the issue trivial because there has been 1 dead in the past year ONLY? Or the underlying root cause analysis is more important?

That said, you are entitled to your own opinion.

 

[I.R.A]

Yes. You have understood me pretty fine. And yes, I do have a better grip on it than many Muslims. One advantage is this - Islam makes a good claim - that the message is direct. So anybody can understand. I don't buy into the 'you need to learn Arabic ONLY to study it'. By that logic no study of any religion would have been possible. All people would have had to learn Sanskrit, Latin etc. So many critics of Hinduism also abound. Do they know Sanskrit or even Pali/Brahmi?
The majority don't. Secondary peer reviewed research is good as well.

Did you make sure you are reading the correct translation? I am a Muslim yet I don't go for routine translation and interpretation available, I am very careful with who I am reading and what I am reading. And I hope you do realise Quran's Arabic isn't what generally we think of Arabic as a language.

 

[SarthakGanguly]

Anyone not familiar with various school of thoughts in Islam (all based on Quran) is bound to consider it a monolith.

Here also there is a genuine problem. Out of the four major schools, only the Hanafis give us the 'privilege' of being under the Dhimmi status. It is good that most Indians here follow this, but the issue remains. Nobody with any knowledge will confuse the Islamic community to be a monolith. It is not. But that does not remove the issues that people face.

Did you make sure you are reading the correct translation? I am a Muslim yet I don't go for routine translation and interpretation available, I am very careful with who I am reading and what I am reading. And I hope you do realise Quran's Arabic isn't what generally we think of Arabic as a language.

Yes. Pickthall's 'version' is widely acclaimed. The English translations distributed by Deoband here are also pretty popular - especially in the markets of Delhi.

 

[I.R.A]

Yes. Pickthall's 'version' is widely acclaimed. The English translations distributed by Deoband here are also pretty popular - especially in the markets of Delhi.

Okay ........... can you share what you understood of verses 3:55, 5:117 from these translations?

And a question how you prefer to understand some law say some ordinance, act etc with numerous linked sections and rules?

 

[T-72M1]

There is nothing in his statements that says that Islam is a monolith.
Everyone knows that Islam is split into Shia and Sunni, and quite a bit more knows there are a number of other subgroups.
Islam does not have a central authority, so anyone can create their own interpretation
including ISIS and Boko Haram.

The book(s) is the authority.