Death Of The Liberal Turkish Dream

[Talwar e Pakistan]

Turkey was one country which was some how not affected by radical islam partly due to its military. But good things dont last long, they have to come to an end. It was just a question of when. Its time they joined their other countries which have embraced fundamentalism.

AKP isnt a radical Islamic party...

Erdogan has turned Turkey into a regional power, expanded its influence, and peaked the economy.

The fact that there are so much butthurts running around and spewing stories - mean that whatever Erdogan is doing, he is doing right.

We Turks do not care what others think about us,we dont need to impress anyone.
Your problem is that you do not accept other(religion) or none believers.
No matter what religion,we Turks Always stand together.
Look at your country and see what mixing religion in politics brought you.
I dont care if you believe or not,the important thing is that you are Pakistani(thats how we think).
I know its hard to understand for someone like you,an ''Islamist''.

We never mixed religion with politics; that is only in our name and on papers.

We REALLY need to actually align towards religion now.

- Zakat will alleviate poverty
- Corruption will decline
- Ethnic unity will increase
- Government will become more centralized
- Crime will decline
- and so on...

We have hundreds of different ethnicities; with different culture, language and traditions - yet they are all held together into one entity, how? Religion.

What you see in the Middle East has barely anything to do with 'mixing religion with politics' - it is a new phenomenon caused by the domino effects of the Invasion of Iraq.

 

[Indus Pakistan]

What is this secular and atheist kind of things that other Turkish members are posting?

It seems like the people that were blessed to be born Muslim all want to act like white European people. Meanwhile, many people with strong faith across the world are becoming Muslim.

It makes me sad to see Turkish members here saying they are atheist and secular to try and impress European trolls on this website. I guess I am conservative and people can call me Islamist. But I love Allah swt, and Islam. It is a part of my culture as well as national culture.

Out of all people I love Turkish people, but from what I read here and certain members posting, it feels like the Turkish people don't want to be associated with Islam anymore. And that makes me sad. I live in US, but I never tried to become like a white person or hate my culture, religion, or race.

Ramazaan Mubarak. Ramazaan Kareem.

Cringe. Apology on behalf of this racist, medieval, retarded waste of space to all members here.

 

[Talwar e Pakistan]

It's a fact that the conservatives are outbreeding the liberals in Turkey, I'm afraid.

again, does a Kuwaiti really have any rights to talk about this?

 

[T-Rex]

i don't see how liberalism is dying in turkey , turks are part european people , if you've ever traveled there , and the rest are turks and kurds , they don't embrace radical islam , they never had even at the height of the ottoman zenith they bombed holy places like the arabian desert , what's more likely is the death of ISLAM

So you portray rejection of 'radical Islam' as the 'death' of Islam! Now I understand why the Shiites are so adamant about defending a bloody despot in Syria.

Turkey never was a liberal country as a nation,It was Kamal Attaturk who tried to impose liberalisam on an islamic country.Just like some forces are trying to do in Pakistan.

People who impose their ideas upon others, are they liberal? So much for liberal suckular democracy!

 

[lastofthepatriots]

Cringe. Apology on behalf of this racist, medieval, retarded waste of space to all members here.

It's only the Kalay engrez like you that make the rest of us cringe. Pseudo-intellectuals that worship European values with a brown face and a Muslim name. Guys like you that only fast on Fridays and eat haram. Guys like you that ask your Hooker to wait in the car while you go pray Friday prayer.

Just because some of us value our religion doesn't give you the right to look down on us. Remember one thing. You can put on the nicest suit and shave your beard, but to Europeans you will always be seen as a brown skinned savage. So it's not that I'm racist, I'm pragmatic and live in reality.

 

[-SINAN-]

So why secularists are better than islamists? Wasnt liberal Kemal that massacred millions of christians?

No, it's the other way around...Christians massacred millions of Muslims. Atatürk defended them....very weird history you are learning in the school.

It makes me sad to see Turkish members here saying they are atheist and secular to try and impress European trolls on this website.

Only a person with a slave mentality will say such things....

 

[Gibbs]

It's only the Kalay engrez like you that make the rest of us cringe. Pseudo-intellectuals that worship European values with a brown face and a Muslim name. Guys like you that only fast on Fridays and eat haram. Guys like you that ask your Hooker to wait in the car while you go pray Friday prayer.

Just because some of us value our religion doesn't give you the right to look down on us. Remember one thing. You can put on the nicest suit and shave your beard, but to Europeans you will always be seen as a brown skinned savage. So it's not that I'm racist, I'm pragmatic and live in reality.

And yet you live in the US, Cussing Europeans and their way of life while enjoying the freedoms and economic opportunities that presented to you by them.. Oh the irony

Yes the US was built on European Christian values and now is the foremost bastion of free thinking and liberalism.. What are you doing there if you detest them so much ?

Btw the Turks are no less Muslim than any other in the Islamic world, Just that they are progressive and educated not to wear it on their shoulder, Their faith is strong cos it's their personal faith

The reason why Turks are the most progressive nation in the Muslim world is despite certain political manipulation even by some of their politicians the people are not dragged down by religious dogma.. There is direct correlation between those countries that are overtly religious and poverty, The poorest and the illiterate are also the most religious and superstitious

 

[lastofthepatriots]

Only a person with a slave mentality will say such things....

As a Muslim I can never be a slave. And I'm sure you're feeling like I'm targeting only Turkish people here, but that is not the case. I am seeing this happen with lots of Pakistanis, Middle Easterners as well. Islam teaches equality for all people, but some of the nationalists on this website go overboard and become arrogant. I love my country, but I won't talk down about religious people in my country to impress the likes of that troll Markus or that Romainian gypsy guy.

Those Euros are literally fascists and sometimes that's what nationalism leads to. I get a feeling sometimes that nationalists of my own country are going down that path. Maybe one day I will be attacked for being a Muslim in Pakistan?

My fight is not with you, my countrymen, secularists, or liberals; but with European militant atheists, that bash Islam as a guise to really promote racism and hatred of different cultures.

I'm actually going through some of this personally with friends, and I figured the forum was to vent and express my self. Not to get jumped on by keyboard warriors.

Are you talking about me brother? There is no doubt that I'm a Muslim.

No I wasn't talking about you brother or anyone in particular. I was just trying to express something that I've been feeling in general.

I have never stumbled upon such Turks on PDF, we are all proud of our heritage, except 1 or two we are all Muslim alhamdulillah and proud of it. Don't generalize on outliers, you need to visit Turkey and see it for yourself. We are all aware of our Islamic heritage and we carried the crescent flag with dignity and faith for centuries when all else depended on our strenght. Allah granted us the gift during the dark ages to defend his faith on Earth.

But religion for Turks is a private matter mostly, we don't judge him or her based on whether he prays or fasts, that's Allah's judgement, not ours.

Turkish moral and ethical codex is very unique. Even if you are not religious, respect for the elders, helping the weak and needy, approaching foreigners with warmth and welcoming, national patriotism are solid values, that's been ingrained in our culture for many centuries. These come from a civilization that through several trial and errors, surfaced in what is today acknowledged as Turkey. Anyone who visits Istanbul or anywhere in Anatolia will understand this first hand. Regards and Ramazan mübarek

@Zulkarneyn I've known you for a long time. I still remember the fights you would have with the Atheist-Kemalist Turks on this forum before most of the new Turkish members even joined. I remember the thread when you declared that you'd be leaving because they would all gang up on you. You know what I'm talking about, and I'm not just talking about Turkish people, but these kinds of atheists in general from every country that bash Islam and promote European values.

Nice to see you back here though. I thought you had left for good. Obviously this ID I have is a new one.

Salam.

 

[Zulkarneyn]

@Zulkarneyn I've known you for a long time. I still remember the fights you would have with the Atheist-Kemalist Turks on this forum before most of the new Turkish members even joined. I remember the thread when you declared that you'd be leaving because they would all gang up on you. You know what I'm talking about, and I'm not just talking about Turkish people, but these kinds of atheists in general from every country that bash Islam and promote European values.

Nice to see you back here though. I thought you had left for good. Obviously this ID I have is a new one.

Firstly, thank you.
Yes, back then many left leaning Turks would gang up on me and insult me, my religion and heritage (Ottoman). Many of them including the appointed Turkish moderator Deno were "proud" atheists who wouldn't think twice before insulting all the values i and most of my countrymen stand for - that includes my family. But they don't and they didn't represent or respect the majority of Turks, i knew it back then and i know it today. They are a tiny fringe, and i left this forum because Webmaster couldn't realize this simple truth, NO ONE in Turkey can insult Allah our Prophet or our family to our face, these things are sacred - it is extremely disrespectful, we are not brought up like that. They could here, because not only were they tolerated, they were promoted by the owners of this forum who thought these low iq fringe groups who represented racism, hatred are Turkey. They are not, they will NEVER be.

I insist on not holding grudges. If they are disrespectful, let them be - only shows their character, if you can keep your head high, and keep working for your family and country, peace will be with you. If those people had a tiny amount of conscience it would weigh on them. I don't hold them responsible though, they are mostly the product of the environment they were brought up in.

 

[lastofthepatriots]

Firstly, thank you.
Yes, back then many left leaning Turks would gang up on me and insult me, my religion and heritage (Ottoman). Many of them including the appointed Turkish moderator Deno were "proud" atheists who wouldn't think twice before insulting all the values i and most of my countrymen stand for - that includes my family. But they don't and they didn't represent or respect the majority of Turks, i knew it back then and i know it today. They are a tiny fringe, and i left this forum because Webmaster couldn't realize this simple truth, NO ONE in Turkey can insult Allah our Prophet or our family to our face, these things are sacred - it is extremely disrespectful, we are not brought up like that. They could here, because not only were they tolerated, they were promoted by the owners of this forum who thought these low iq fringe groups who represented racism, hatred are Turkey. They are not, they will NEVER be.

I insist on not holding grudges. If they are disrespectful, let them be - only shows their character, if you can keep your head high, and keep working for your family and country, peace will be with you. If those people had a tiny amount of conscience it would weigh on them. I don't hold them responsible though, they are mostly the product of the environment they were brought up in.

Glad you have you back brother. You and @cabatli_53 were always my favorite Turkish posters here.

 

[Taygibay]

Guys like you that only fast on Fridays and eat haram. Guys like you that ask your Hooker to wait in the car while you go pray Friday prayer.

Pics or it didn't happen. Rule 24.

Tay.

P.S. The need to slander your opponent rarely helps one's point.

 

[lastofthepatriots]

Pics or it didn't happen. Rule 24.

Tay.

P.S. The need to slander your opponent rarely helps one's point.

I believe the person I quoted resorted to personal insults first, otherwise I actually respected him before this. Anyways, I'm not going to be involved in insults during Ramazan. I'm done with this childishness.

 

[Taygibay]

^^^ Good for you!

Have a great Ramadan, Tay.

 

[Indus Pakistan]

You can put on the nicest suit and shave your beard, but to Europeans you will always be seen as a brown skinned savage.

You mean like this guy below? Forget about the suit look at those shoes?? I want the same!

Europeans you will always be seen as a brown skinned savage.

I have no idea what you are on about. There is good and bad everywhere. I have done very well and have never been treated as a savage. For sure my living standard is higher than the average "European" as you call it and this is a opportunity that has been afforded to me by the majority of my peers.

If you are sore than don't going around shafting others. Maybe you need to look at where you have gone wrong. With your attitude I am not surprised you have been treated like a "savage".

I'm pragmatic and live in reality.

Yeh I can see that. Looking at everything through white/brown and non Muslim/Muslim is being pragmatic. Your no differant from the far right.

worship European values

I worship modern/world values. The same values found in New York, London, Paris, Moscow, Beijing, China, Seoul, South Korea,Tokyo, Japan.

Link > http://www.dawn.com/news/1263121/china-restricts-fasting-in-ramazan-for-xinjiang-govt-staff-minors

You represent the defeated servile thinking borne of colonialism. You choose to still carry the scars from that period. Your language gives it away. You need to accept the past, learn and move on.

 

[xenon54 out]

I support him mainly because everyone in Europe and US hates him
And because there have been tremendous economic development during his first 10 years. And he is just hilarously self confident, he simply doesn't give a rats *** about how his words will affect relationships. He thinks this is the second coming of the Ottoman empire. He is just too interesting to let go mate

Risking to make someone a dictator just because he seems funny isnt a very productive way of thinking, its like saying lets vote for Trump because he is funny though Trump could never become a dictator while Erdogan with enough support could.

Thats exactly the thing thats going wrong in Turkish politics, our voters arent aware of the threats our democracy is facing at the moment.

I have never stumbled upon such Turks on PDF, we are all proud of our heritage, except 1 or two we are all Muslim alhamdulillah and proud of it. Don't generalize on outliers, you need to visit Turkey and see it for yourself. We are all aware of our Islamic heritage and we carried the crescent flag with dignity and faith for centuries when all else depended on our strenght. Allah granted us the gift during the dark ages to defend his faith on Earth.

But religion for Turks is a private matter mostly, we don't judge him or her based on whether he prays or fasts, that's Allah's judgement, not ours.

Turkish moral and ethical codex is very unique. Even if you are not religious, respect for the elders, helping the weak and needy, approaching foreigners with warmth and welcoming, national patriotism are solid values, that's been ingrained in our culture for many centuries. These come from a civilization that through several trial and errors, surfaced in what is today acknowledged as Turkey. Anyone who visits Istanbul or anywhere in Anatolia will understand this first hand. Regards and Ramazan mübarek

Im really done with explaining myself to such people, if you start defending secularism in your own country you become wannabe white, as if those people know who i am, it didnt need much till the first one starts to draw conclusion about Turks once you explain our socieity.
Thats the reason i dont want my country to go the theocratic way.