Could anybody share what this is?

[TNT]

The point majority don't understand and target Sufism in the sub-continent without knowing the depth. The propagation is of Islam done through blending in local cultures. Regional culture is much stronger than Islam.. the same way Pashtun tribal laws are much stronger than Islamic laws, even if it goes against Islam. But the story of " anal haq " exists in the same society. Allama Iqbal filled the pages writing about Rumi and Sufism.

Sufis strive to protect their heritage in wartorn Libya​

Nothing wrong with asking questions, but it would be better to spend a few years doing research on the subject before discussion.

Rumi rules Turkey

View attachment 816941

That is the point, rumi could have said anything or lal shehbaz would have said anything, it doesn't matter. Islam is only what Quran says and the Prophet SAW explained. Rumi could say anything and it doesnt become Islam. The reason the Prophet SAW was sent was to explain Quran and that is enough for all, or else Allah could have sent Quran only and left it to the ppl to understand and explain with their own thoughts.
Asking questions and demanding proof when someone makes something a part of Islam or a ritual as Islamic, we dont need to consult xyz but directly reach the source, the Prophet SAW and see if He SAW made it part of Islam or not. Simple as that.

 

[Chak Bamu]

The person in the video literally talks from "sources" like Quran and Sunnah. That is one of the main reason why he became so immensely popular, to a point that he has become the most followed religious personality on the social media in the world. If you do not want to "entertain" an attempt of a person citing sources in a VIDEO FORMAT, and insist that a YouTube video can't help with "sources", then you might be underestimating how much a teacher can do on this medium. Each and every sentence that comes out of the mouth of the man in the video, is referenced from Quran, Sunnah, and Ahadith (as in the number of Ayah, and Hadith is literally displayed on the screen). Furthermore, if you want to learn more about YOUR "source" aka Kashf ul Mahjoob, you might want to search it up and see what Ali Mirza has to say about it. But I assume it would be below your dignity to even watch the video.
I showed it to my taya (big fan of Sufism and Kashf ul Mahjoob), he threw a fit, and cursed Imam Bukhari and Muslim and their mothers.

Sufism has been reduced to an idea like that of communism: fans will always say that the true version was never applied, hence USSR, North Korea, and Eastern Bloc were turned into sh*t holes. Yeah, the problem is that it was flawed to begin with.

Revealed knowledge is the sole knowledge with we can call religion. Everything else will gradually throw you off course. If you are an exception, millions of others are not.

You assume too much. Perhaps I've been there & passed that milestone many years ago?

You know what, suggest the same video that you showed to your Taya & I shall have a look & respond to you. It would be reasoned & not abusive. I can not contemplate any one cursing Imam Bukhari & Imam Muslim in the name of Sufism. I am assuming that you have read up a few books on the subject - both for & against and are able to reason with nuance.

So go ahead, I will do this for you.

 

[Jazzbot]

Don't have to lose your marbles over a carnival. Go do tabdeeli tabdeeli no fatwabazi

Why? If I am a supporter of IK that bars me from talking about everything except politics? Or do you think PTI supporters have no religious sense or knowledge?

 

[Jazzbot]

Afaik you also said shias are pretty much not Muslims nowadays

Wait, what? Where did I say that?
If you're referring to one of my recent post in another thread, I said modern day shia-ism has turn into Iran worshiping. And I stand by it as there are a lot of reasons to believe this.

This hardcore tafiryat must stop, Sufi-ism has nothing to do with Islam
Period? It's such a blanket statement

Knowing fully well that during ibn Tamiyas time majority of the people in Arab/Syria/Muslim world had some sort of relationship with Sufism

They were all out of Islam?

I will not reply to your rants about tafiryat etc. as just like sufi-ism, I don't have anything to do that that either.

I have read a lot about sufi-ism and I hail from a sufi family, my grandfather is a gaddi-nasheen and a peer. So before you start educating me what sufi-ism is, I should tell you that I know it inside out as I grew up with it.

But as you start reading Quran and Hadith, you will start understanding what true Islam is and what are all the innovations that people over the centuries have tried to add into Islam, that include both sufi-ism and shia-ism. Both of these had no roots during the time of Prophet (p.b.u.h) or his companions. This alone is enough to shut this argument, these both are innovations in Islam, and hence not part of actual Islam.

Now, if you still want to follow sufi-ism or shia-ism, it's your choice and I respect that. But be aware the consequences of it in here-after. At one hand, we have guaranteed words of Allah and his prophet in Quran and Hadith. On the other hand, we have fairy tales written by some baba's in south asia, arabi and persian region decades (if not centuries) after Prophet's time. It's up to you to decide which way you want to go. Just remember, you chose your path knowingly. And yes, the paths of Quran & Sunnah and that of Sufi-ism / Shia-ism are different as they contradict with each other in so many ways.

 

[I.R.A]

Read about Yazidis and origins of their faith.

 

[Mentee]

Read about Yazidis and origins of their faith.

An ancient Serpant worshipping cult ------?

 

[I.R.A]

An ancient Serpant worshipping cult ------?

Yazidis who came to limelight during ISIS mess, actually it was 12th century I guess when a sufi (Sheikh Adi) tried something with them and they ended up being a cocktail of everything ranging from their local rituals to Judaism, Christianity and Islam).

 

[Mentee]

Revealed knowledge is the sole knowledge with we can call religion

They indirectly accuse the Prophet Saww of concealing a part of revelation, nauozbillah, and it being transferred via heart to heart only to their shaikh- ------.


Do you believe this nonsense when it directly goes against Quranic verses . No offence to my sunni brethren but you guys need to get hold of yourselves .

 

[S.Y.A]

4:59

"Obey Allah, and obey the Messenger, and those charged with authority among you. If ye differ in anything among yourselves, refer it to Allah and His Messenger, if ye do believe in Allah and the Last Day: That is best, and most suitable for final determination."

Please read the Ayat again, there is no defined method of establishing said authority, only the way that authority should do business, and tells us the importance of listening to our ruler, not how said ruler will get to become one. these are two different things.

As for Sunni Ahadith; there are HAdith that orders us to obey even if a slave is our sultan, another Hadith tells us to obey even our ruler is cruel and harsh. enjoy.

The person in the video literally talks from "sources" like Quran and Sunnah. That is one of the main reason why he became so immensely popular, to a point that he has become the most followed religious personality on the social media in the world. If you do not want to "entertain" an attempt of a person citing sources in a VIDEO FORMAT, and insist that a YouTube video can't help with "sources", then you might be underestimating how much a teacher can do on this medium. Each and every sentence that comes out of the mouth of the man in the video, is referenced from Quran, Sunnah, and Ahadith (as in the number of Ayah, and Hadith is literally displayed on the screen).

The man constantly introduces his own words while translating Hadith, committing tahreef of the Hadith. this is the truth of your guy. he didnt become famous due to sources, he became famous because he dabbles in controversial issues and likes to abuse everyone left right and center.

Besides, that is his research, where is yours? you are just parroting what mirza is saying, or what his interpretation of Quran and Hadith is, and ignoring the interpretation of others.

 

[Mentee]

As for Sunni Ahadith; there are HAdith that orders us to obey even if a slave is our sultan, another Hadith tells us to obey even our ruler is cruel and harsh. enjoy.

And Ali was neither cruel nor harsh

 

[S.Y.A]

And Ali was neither cruel nor harsh

....so where does the islamic method of appointing a ruler come in? isnt that what the debate is about?

 

[Mentee]

....so where does the islamic method of appointing a ruler come in? isnt that what the debate is about?

Debate among muslims/shoora , but still what standards dictate such council ?

 

[V. Makarov]

The man constantly introduces his own words while translating Hadith, committing tahreef of the Hadith. this is the truth of your guy. he didnt become famous due to sources, he became famous because he dabbles in controversial issues and likes to abuse everyone left right and center.

Besides, that is his research, where is yours? you are just parroting what mirza is saying, or what his interpretation of Quran and Hadith is, and ignoring the interpretation of others.

I personally have never found him committing tehreef in ahadith. Checked all of them on at least 2 different mobile apps with my brother. Plus, I have been interested in the study of Ahadith since my university years, so it was slightly easy to point out who was forging ahadees, who was cutting out parts of ahadith, and who was only stating ahadees that conform with their own school of thought or firqa. I have found Ali to be very straight forward because he himself says, if you don't believe him, go and read the references he gives, yourself. Not even a single time, I concluded a different result than the one concluded by him.

Second, I have never found him to abuse anyone (I double-checked, but in the eyes of ulema, even disagreeing with their elders is gustakhi). On the flip side, there are compilations of other mainstream ulema (who represent their firqa), who are cursing Ali Mirza. Senior ones like Mufti Tariq called him Ullu ka patha on live stream, and then called himself the father of Ali Mirza.

As far as your problem with him discussing controversial issues is concerned, I don't understand why it would be contemptuous, if everything is referenced from Quran o Sunnat? I mean, if Allah says on the FIRST PAGE of Quran:

​

إِيَّاكَ نَعْبُدُ وَإِيَّاكَ نَسْتَعِينُ​

Thee alone do we worship and Thee alone do we implore for help
​

So why is it controversial to say that asking Ali Hujweri's dead body for divine intervention is wrong? I think you must have heard about Ali Mirza from someone who himself may be prejudiced, or you yourself did not get enough time to study his point of view in detail. My personal recommendation to anybody who likes to study religion as a subject is: listen to each and every single one of the mainstream ulema (if you desire), to get their point of view, and then listen to Ali in the end. The things can become simplified quickly. Search for truth is a long process. In the world of knowledge, emotions have no value whatsoever.

 

[El Sidd]

Why? If I am a supporter of IK that bars me from talking about everything except politics? Or do you think PTI supporters have no religious sense or knowledge?

yeah no religion just supersciences for you

 

[Mentee]

Qissay khaania chor k Kitabullah k peechay chalo agr surprise nae hona chahtay -------. Only then we may be able to comprehend what came before.