Comparison of IN and PN

[niaz]

Ok, but let me throw this scenario at you. What if in response to an Indian threat. Pakistan asks for help from Saudi who offers China a juicy deal vis a vis oil (china is the largest importer of energy in the world now) suddenly a Chinese fleet appears of the coast of Pakistan!

Not likely, but possible none the less...........the point is this...NEVER SAY NEVER!!!

This is a very hypothetical scenario. If you look at the ground realities, India and China are not enemies anymore. Saudi Arabia is selling all of its the production without trouble and would have no 'Juicy deal to offer' to China. More likely scenario is that Saudi Arabia offers 'Easy credit oil' to Pakistan and Pakistanis use the monies thus available to buy every thing China has to offer. But to expect China to actually fight for Pakistan is a wishful thinking to extreme.

 

[Bull]

Ok, but let me throw this scenario at you. What if in response to an Indian threat. Pakistan asks for help from Saudi who offers China a juicy deal vis a vis oil (china is the largest importer of energy in the world now) suddenly a Chinese fleet appears of the coast of Pakistan!

Not likely, but possible none the less...........the point is this...NEVER SAY NEVER!!!

If you can take your hypothesis that far then here s the answer:

Us gets annoyed by the fact that Saudi decided to sell cheaper oil China.The pentagon decides that its time take sides and places the US fleet in western coast and thus pinning down the chineese fleet.
After that, they give the saudis a goodspanking.Saudis get scared and withdraws the offer of cheap oil to China.China gets pissed off and withdraws the fleet.

 

[Contrarian]

as every1 is saying NEVER SAY NEVER then :

Russia on seeing India surrounded by PN and PLAN, decides to warn China immediately to BACK OFF or it will send its navy to help its ally India

 

[joey]

not going to happen.
US/UK relationship.
your problem solve it, we will support you always / supply you with arms but u do the job yourselves.
and we shudnt expect that shall we with within 2012 3 carriers coming and 2 LPD's.
how bout USS trenton"28000 tonne vessel" landing 1000 MARCOS somewher

We are building new IAF base in kerala under TRI command.
Net centric is under RAPID DEVELOPEMENT.
C41STAR IS UNDER DEVELOPEMENT WITH THALES.
We are going trhe US way in net centric, perfect and proven. but codes/datalinks etc etc being indigenous.

Chinese as well IN is going on massive developement.
both navies cannot take out both navies in their home water.
today only boeing said it will market P8I for MPA to india in upcoming Aero India 2007.watch for it
hey this is just a example...

 

[joey]

those pics aint appearin check em here

http://s2.supload.com/free/Vikram_top.jpg/view/
http://s2.supload.com/free/Vikramaditya2.jpg/view/

 

[Contrarian]

Joey, if u remember that in the Bangladesh war, the ONLY reason why China did not interfere DIRECTLY with us to help Pakistan was cuz we signed the treaty of friendship with Russia just some time ago. So im saying the same thing...Russia will use its influence in Bejing or China, so that it doesnt affront Russia, will decide not to intervene...thats all

Hope we buy the P8I MPA !!! It rocks, the USN has also ordered them!, its a gen ahead of the P3C's!!

 

[Keysersoze]

I suggest you guys re-read what I wrote........

The word "scenario" is a good indication that it is in a range of possiblities...Unless you have a magic crystal ball you can't discount anything.
After all I wonder how many of you anticipated the war in Iraq after 9-11?

Trying readin the post before jumping guys, this last line is a big indication.

"Not likely, but possible none the less...........the point is this...NEVER SAY NEVER!!!"

 

[Contrarian]

Guys, i know that Marlin is based on Scorpene, but when i chkd out the specs, except for the AIP system, propulsion, its essentially same as Scorpene.

Could some 1 please post a link whether Pakistan has bought the Marlin's or U-212/214's?

Also, could the Sub experts here take time to elaborate the Amur's here.
Is it better than Scorpene? If so how much better? better than U-214?
The entire works. Thanyou

 

[joey]

Pakistan will go for U214 mostly for its second line of sub.
and Merlin is better than Scorpene slightly, i'll have to look exact specs though.

 

[Contrarian]

and about Amur?

 

[joey]

Amur is not yet developed, thats a diff beast
We wont buy the regular Amur rather a diff Amur which is not yet confirmed.

but U214 is VERY VERY QUIET.

 

[joey]

Amur 950 is not what I'm talking about but the new Amur which is set to be co developed with italy and russia.
i think it will be our second line of SSK, frankly we need oyashio class SSK or SSN.
Carrier fleet without SSN is bogus.

 

[Contrarian]

true, thats why we wanted to /want to lease one of the SSN from Russia.
But i hope they go for the new AMUR immediately, ie start/join in the development with Russia and Italy. I take it would be one of the latest submarines SSK built then. It would be better r=if we go at it now rather than wait for PN to order Marlin's and THEN have the MoD get a kick in their a** and then jump at the first sub we are offered.

The scorpene, was bought with an intention to counter the Agosta's. Lets hope they buy a decent sub to counter the Marlins that PN plans to buy in the future.

 

[MIG_ACE]

We are going to lease two akulas not one acc to what i've read.
This is what I understand.To counter a quiet sub like U-214 or Marlin we definitely need an SSN.But what we also need are really good aerial ASW assets.The Ka-28 and SeaKing helos and Tu-142s are inadequate IMO.We need the Boeing P-8MMA which was offered to us along with a new generation ASW Helo to replace the Sea King.

Here's some news abt that...
The Indian navy has begun evaluating four proposals for its anti-submarine warfare (ASW) helicopter replacement requirement, writes Brendan Sobie.

Industry sources say bids have been submitted by Hindustan Aeronautics (HAL) offering the Eurocopter EC725, NH Industries the NH90, Sikorsky the S-70B and by the US Navy for the new Sikorsky-built, Lockheed Martin integrated MH-60R.

The Indian navy is looking to replace its ageing Westland Sea King fleet, which when delivered in the 1980s consisted of over 40 aircraft, and initially plans to acquire 16 replacements and take eight options. The navy will conduct field evaluations after finishing technical evaluations, but the manufacturers have not yet been provided with a schedule for site visits. A contract could be signed as early as next year, but sources say the navy may opt to delay the acquisition and instead buy a proposed 10t indigenous helicopter from HAL.

The Indian manufacturer plans to select a foreign company to help it launch a five-year indigenous development or co-development programme. Sources say Eurocopter and Sikorsky are now preparing proposals, which will be submitted to HAL around mid-year. Sources say Bell also met with HAL earlier this year to discuss co-developing a new helicopter that would have expanded Bell’s portfolio into the 10t category, but the US manufacturer has decided against submitting a bid.

AgustaWestland, which did not respond to the navy’s tender because its EH101 is too large for the requirement, is also unlikely to submit a bid for the HAL project.

Sources say Eurocopter is the frontrunner over Sikorsky because it has already teamed with HAL to offer the EC725 in response to the navy’s tender and the duo is also planning joint bids for other Indian helicopter acquisition programmes.

Source: http://www.flightglobal.com/Article...y+starts+hunt+for+anti-submarine+warfare.html

 

[Contrarian]

i hope they buy the P8 MMA's

Its like a QUANTUM leap over the existing capabilities of IN!!
and it is the LATEST, nothing better available right now in the world than P-8 MMA, teh USN has also ordered these babies from Boeing!