Comparison of IN and PN

[joey]

sigatoka who told you Brahmos is a LACM??? It is a missile with diff warheard developed for Navy/Army/Airforce.so not specifically LACM.
the guidance system for LCAM wud be DIFFERENT form that of NAVY.

Last time i checked sources they said ADS steel cutting has begun ages back.
it will buy its boilers and stuffs..
it will Resemble Italies Upcoming Carrier.
After ADS/Gorshkov will be in service , Viraat will be retired along with the developement of ADS 2 which can very much have a catapault system from USN depends on the relations of that time.
btw by that time i mean 5 to 7 years. not much atleast for the design to finalize.





This is not a bad fighter
and with Putin coming expect some SSN's to come asap. Akula gave west nightmares during cold war days and they develope sea wolf class "only 20 were build right?" to counter it.
now they have closed the production lines and went with lighter Virginia class ssn.
let alone akula 2[india gettin] or severodivnsk class ssn's...
these ssn's r force multipliers.
india is also having a contest for MPA it'll either be P8MPA or Blackjack/Backfire.

 

[Keysersoze]

Hmmm this interesting that you mention carriers.
Recently there was a big Bru-ha-ha (arguement ) regarding the replacement aircraft carriers for the Royal Navy. The basic requirment as was stipulated was that at least THREE carriers were required for a sustained usage.(one on station. One returning either from or to location and one to be in maintenance) So it could be argued that if PN (or a relevant agency) monitored sudden activity with carriers they would be given advance notice of possible action.

On a related theme to the discussion perhaps the PN should adopt the Russian "Bastion" system around its coastal region? They do not have enough assets to power project so.......

"Akula gave west nightmares during cold war days and they develope sea wolf class "only 20 were build right?" to counter it."

Ok I have to take task with this statement.......The Russians were always behind the west with their submarine design....the Seawolf design was started in the mid eighties (1982-85 according to my information) to keep that advantage (the Akula was commisioned after the start of that program) the 688 submarines were more than capable of handling the threat from all of Russias Akulas (at most approx 16 as opposed by at least 49+ 688 subs) plus the Seawolfs.
Th Russians have improved, but to say the west had nightmares about the Akula, stretches credability just a little......

 

[Bull]

Precisely because that is what they can do, surprise 'ancient' aircraft. Current P-3Cs have all been upgraded to US Navy standards and there is no reason why they should be 'surprised' as their predecessors with their inferior technology were.

Well In has the tech edge.P3 is maritime surveilance aircraft which can also do the role of anti ship/sub role,but has nothign to save itself from the aerobrone threats in the form of Harreirs.Mig29s and Jaguars.

Plus, Pakistan is acquiring Erieyes and negotiations are underway to acquire Chinese AWACS. One would reckon, the 'Tigers' would have to risk much to get even close to their 'prey' next time around.

U will need those in the western border to keep the IAF at bay

 

[Bull]

I guess another thing that would to PN good to learn from Hezbollah's defence against the IsN is the use of missiles.

Hizbullah could inflict damages on IsN mainly becuase they ahd their counter measures turned off as they were sailing closeto the shore trying to pick up communications.

And more over even without a credible navy they could attain what they wanted,embargo and destroy the fuel storage tanks.

India's Brahmos is good but lacks range. Pakistan already has a longer ranged missile with a longer ranged version a lot closer than Brahmos's next update.

Babur isnt commisoned yet,im waiitng to know abt their battalion nos if they have already been comissioned.

 

[Bull]

2. The Brahmos hasnt scored any combat kills. What exactly are you basing this claim on?.

On the tests and the results it achieved.Go and check it out.

3. Why exactly cant the PN missile boat fleel engage the IN missile boat fleet? The PN will inflict damage while it is taking it, the IN is not so technologically advanced that it will dish out all the pain while receiving none.

In a war it would be only be a fool who thinks they are invincible and we are not trying to underestimate the PN or its sailors.They simply dont have the stuff to stop a complete onslought by IN.

4. The PN navy is outnumbered but outclassed? Indians are the only ones who actually claim their rickety boats are stealth.

Its not only abt stealth but the also abt the nos and the aircover they have.

5. It is lopsided if the PN was actually fighting the IN on the high seas, it is not.

IN and PN wont go to atlantic to face each other .

6. A dozen Aegis would result in the destruction of the IN.

A dozen akulas will also wipe PN off in a flash.

7. 2 dozen pathetic Mig-29's that have never actually performed well in combat is an overkill? .

What abt the harriers,the jaguars and other maritime aircrafts.

 

[Contrarian]

this comparison is a nogo

the IN will slaughter PN and in the future, if u look shrewdly enough, the gap is only going to widen as the Indian economy surges, there will be more money.
Plus now as India is not being treated as an international pariah, companies like boeing etc are applying here for the latest platforms.A
nd navy vessels are ridiculously costly....so there is no comparison...

India buys its weapons not with Pakistan in mind, but with China in mind...so a comparison atleast in the Navy is moot.

 

[Keysersoze]

"the IN will slaughter PN and in the future"

That is spoken like someone with no experience at all.
While the point about comparisons is valid (both have different remits). Saying things like the above is totally baseless. And while the IN is much bigger, it will not strip its coast line and use all its combat assets. Some will be pinned down in defensive roles in ports. Others will gaurd against China and other perceived enemies.

Oh and economies can drop as well as surge.

 

[lulldapull]

To label the Mig-29K as trash is a huuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuge mistake! I have seen some of these newer Fulcrum video's and these things are just frigging amazing! the Mig-29OVT, the Mig-29M-2 and even the fairly run of the mill SMT are amazing aircraft. They are highly capable and the Russians have literally introduced a next Gen. aircraft to match anything Navalised the USN has of fighter assets. The 29K is confidently on par with the F-18C if not better.

So how would the MirageVPA-2's and 3's fair against the INAS 300 sqd. White Tigers? (specially in a ground attack load out config.)?......I think we all know the answer to that one.

And more importantly what are the future acquisiton plans to replace these throughly obsolete Mirage VPA's in PN service?....Let me guess....None!

 

[sparten]

Lull,
I thinkyou are forgetting the point made constantly on PDF, we only need to keep karachi open, and the links to the persian gulf. Any how, we always have Gwadar from Dec onwards.

 

[joey]

To label the Mig-29K as trash is a huuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuge mistake! I have seen some of these newer Fulcrum video's and these things are just frigging amazing! the Mig-29OVT, the Mig-29M-2 and even the fairly run of the mill SMT are amazing aircraft. They are highly capable and the Russians have literally introduced a next Gen. aircraft to match anything Navalised the USN has of fighter assets. The 29K is confidently on par with the F-18C if not better.

So how would the MirageVPA-2's and 3's fair against the INAS 300 sqd. White Tigers? (specially in a ground attack load out config.)?......I think we all know the answer to that one.

And more importantly what are the future acquisiton plans to replace these throughly obsolete Mirage VPA's in PN service?....Let me guess....None!

Not to forget the Mig29k for IN will be vastly differ from the original K/Kub specs..just the MKK and MKI differed vastly.
A small differrence..

Full success for Thales TopSight-E tests

Neuilly-sur-Seine; 19 October 2006

Thales Helmet Mounted Sight and Display (HMDS) TopSight-E, selected by the Russian Aircraft Corporation for the Mig 29, has successfully withstood harsh windblast evaluations, consisting of gusts up to 1100 km/h (595 Kts) in Russian test facilities.
This test simulates the most demanding potential ejection phase in which the pilot would leave the cockpit by his seat and enter external airflow. During this phase, the HMSD has to remain intact and continue to protect the pilot's head.
This success demonstrates Thales know-how, and technical expertise, which is essential for pilot safety. Thales’ HMDS is the lightest and safest of its category thanks to a unique patented pilot individualization process.
Selected by the MiG Corporation in 2005, Thales HMSD TopSight-E will be fitted on Indian Navy MiG-29 K: it is an invaluable tool for aircraft pilots. It gives them essential flight control information in front of their eyes, without having to look down at the instrumental panel which is a key element to ensuring flight safety during tactical missions.

Last time i checked these r for Naval Rafales as well.
Plus just let the Irbis Radar come, it'll be a whole diff ball game then.
If anything Russians lack that is Radar i mean no AESA.
now again AESA can be fitted as negotians r goin on for 2052 Israeli one which is par with Us standards as they have worked with US tech vastly.

 

[Contrarian]

That is spoken like someone with no experience at all.
While the point about comparisons is valid (both have different remits). Saying things like the above is totally baseless. And while the IN is much bigger, it will not strip its coast line and use all its combat assets. Some will be pinned down in defensive roles in ports. Others will gaurd against China and other perceived enemies.

India is trying to make its coast guard strong enough to defend the coast line against any external aggression. In a statement a while back, the naval chief said that the Navy is trying to make the Coast Guard competent enough, that it can defend the country's shores effectively so the Navy, in the event of war can concentrate its full resorces in fighting the enemy.

Since making the Coast Guard effective in such a scenario will take time, i agree that some ships will be required in defensive positions against some percieved threats. But the main thing is that in the case of a full blown war, neither China nor any other country will DIRECTLY aid Pakistan by sending its ships to counter the IN.

 

[Keysersoze]

Coast gaurd for naval defence??? I would question that theory......If there was a naval confrontation i.e an enemy fleet would you feel comfortable sending your coast gaurd to defend against it? Well good luck with that! Also No other country has to actually fight another country they only have to "sabre rattle" by moving a fleet of the coast of said country. Also it is not a viable thing to say that any country WILL not do a thing. It depends on the political situation at the time.

 

[vnomad]

Coast gaurd for naval defence??? I would question that theory......If there was a naval confrontation i.e an enemy fleet would you feel comfortable sending your coast gaurd to defend against it? Well good luck with that! Also No other country has to actually fight another country they only have to "sabre rattle" by moving a fleet of the coast of said country. Also it is not a viable thing to say that any country WILL not do a thing. It depends on the political situation at the time.

Sino-Indian relations have been rapidly improving. The Chinese premier will be visiting New Delhi this month. In the event of a conflict China will call for restraint and peace but do little else. No country would like to put its troops online for someone else. Chinese-Pakistani brotherhood is a nice slogan but little else. In 1965 Indo-Chinese relations were at a nadir(unlike good relations today) but China did not intercede in the conflict. The best you can expect from China is uninterrupted supply of weapons, spares, etc.

 

[Neo]

Coast gaurd for naval defence??? I would question that theory......If there was a naval confrontation i.e an enemy fleet would you feel comfortable sending your coast gaurd to defend against it? Well good luck with that! Also No other country has to actually fight another country they only have to "sabre rattle" by moving a fleet of the coast of said country. Also it is not a viable thing to say that any country WILL not do a thing. It depends on the political situation at the time.

I'm not an analyst, but you read my thoughts.
Coast guard for naval defence with the size of India?
Good luck indeed!

 

[Keysersoze]

Sino-Indian relations have been rapidly improving. The Chinese premier will be visiting New Delhi this month. In the event of a conflict China will call for restraint and peace but do little else. No country would like to put its troops online for someone else. Chinese-Pakistani brotherhood is a nice slogan but little else. In 1965 Indo-Chinese relations were at a nadir(unlike good relations today) but China did not intercede in the conflict. The best you can expect from China is uninterrupted supply of weapons, spares, etc.

Ok, but let me throw this scenario at you. What if in response to an Indian threat. Pakistan asks for help from Saudi who offers China a juicy deal vis a vis oil (china is the largest importer of energy in the world now) suddenly a Chinese fleet appears of the coast of Pakistan!

Not likely, but possible none the less...........the point is this...NEVER SAY NEVER!!!