Chinese Aircraft Carrier Liaoning vs INS Vikramaditya

[anjaneyashruti]

That island in the middle of the deck is a bad placement there by slowing the launch and recovery of aircraft, the Vikramaditya has an elevators that are not located on the side but in the middle of the ship. You can not land or launch an aircraft while an aircraft is using the elevator, another bad design.

The Liaoning also have one more launch pad than the Viki.

The Island position might not be idea and the elevators might not be ideal but the AC does its job. It can carry upto 14 Mig 29K on its deck so really there is not need for the elevators to be operational before at least 14 Aircrafts takes off.

End of the day Liaon is only a test bed for introducing and testing AC components and a training platform for PLA navy. Viki is a real life AC commissioned into the IN with proven Aircrafts. Really there is no comparison.

 

[hari sud]

Chinese members of this forum are having heartache knowing that Russian made INS Vikaramaditya works and Russian made Chinese upgraded Liaoning does not work other than a coastal Defence vessel.

Like their economic statistics they would soon begin printing false statistics of Liaoning operation.

With stolen technology you build a formidable war machine on paper.

 

[he-man]

Silly, silly comparison. When the Viky comes to India next year she will be operational in a matter of months. It will take the Liaoning years to get to the same level of operational readiness- if she ever does. The challenges facing the Viky are numerous but relatively easy to overcome for the IN, on the other hand the PLA(N) is facing a monumental struggle- making a ship that was sold as a casino, operational, establishing a carrier tradition in a navy where this idea is alien to most and then to top it all off the fighters that will fly off this vessel are unproven themselves.

u will soon enough know what china is capable off

they are capable of building carriers on the same pace as USA and in next 5-10 years they will prove it.
on the topic do u know how many time vikramaditya has caught fire??(of course u do)

so su-33 are unproven now??

and u are vouching for something like mig-29k??are they so good??

u know way way more than me and u will agree that mig-29k will be irrelevant the moment china adds an aesa into j-15 naval jets.besides performance of j-15 is far better than mig-29k in every conceivable way possible

now i know u will say it has unproven electronics etc but whats inside mig-29k??nothing worth boasting at all

 

[Dash]

u will soon enough know what china is capable off

they are capable of building carriers on the same pace as USA and in next 5-10 years they will prove it.
on the topic do u know how many time vikramaditya has caught fire??(of course u do)

so su-33 are unproven now??

and u are vouching for something like mig-29k??are they so good??

u know way way more than me and u will agree that mig-29k will be irrelevant the moment china adds an aesa into j-15 naval jets.besides performance of j-15 is far better than mig-29k in every conceivable way possible

now i know u will say it has unproven electronics etc but whats inside mig-29k??nothing worth boasting at all

Have you ever tried to understand why the Russians replacing the so called Su-33s with Mig-29Ks?

 

[GR!FF!N]

Remember the inexperienced US Navy defeated the experienced Japanese Navy in WW2.

actually,they got lucky at midway...

plus,USN wasn't an inexperienced Navy for carrier operation.actually,their first AC entered into service in 1922 and before pearl harbour,they had over 7 carriers(Japan had 10 and their first carrier entered into service in 1920)...they lost most of the crew lost in carrier operation all over the world and they operated the carriers most.Japan did have massive experience,but after Pacific war,everything changed.USN built nearly 3 dozens of carriers within 1945.

so please don't compare China with USA.Carrier operation is truely complex.most country can't do that properly even after 2 to 3 decades of operation.

you should actually study the Battle of Midway and study how one flaw of operation sunk 4 Japanese carriers within a day(3 within minutes),even when they're at top in that sector.massive experience and operational capability is needed just to operate a carrier,let alone to lead it into battle.

 

[cirr]

Top India，bottom China：

军事天地 鼎盛论坛

Enough said。

 

[IND151]

The Island position might not be idea and the elevators might not be ideal but the AC does its job. It can carry upto 14 Mig 29K on its deck so really there is not need for the elevators to be operational before at least 14 Aircrafts takes off.

End of the day Liaon is only a test bed for introducing and testing AC components and a training platform for PLA navy. Viki is a real life AC commissioned into the IN with proven Aircrafts. Really there is no comparison.

Viki can carry up to 30 aircrafts (18 Migs + 12-14 Kamovs) according to Sancho

 

[GR!FF!N]

u will soon enough know what china is capable off
they are capable of building carriers on the same pace as USA and in next 5-10 years they will prove it.
on the topic do u know how many time vikramaditya has caught fire??(of course u do)
so su-33 are unproven now??
and u are vouching for something like mig-29k??are they so good??
u know way way more than me and u will agree that mig-29k will be irrelevant the moment china adds an aesa into j-15 naval jets.besides performance of j-15 is far better than mig-29k in every conceivable way possible
now i know u will say it has unproven electronics etc but whats inside mig-29k??nothing worth boasting at all

let me say you something..you're overestimating China.don't go carried out by their hype.Aircraft Carrier operation isn't easy at all..many countries took decades just to perfect it,yet they failed to properly operate it.especially in the age of stand off missiles,the risk is too high to lead an aircraft carrier into battle.

as for Su-33,even chinese members don't acknowledge that J-15 is Su-33.

as for comparison with Mig-29,both are for different purpose.while J-15 is much larger along with more weapons carrying capability,its performance is floppy,as per chinese daily as they're saying that present attack range of J-15 using full load is only 120 km.they need catapult to launch a heavy aircraft like this one.until they,they'll fly only with 2 ton armament at most,giving Mig-29K a significant edge.as we know Liaoning is just for testing purpose,until they acquire an Ac with catapult and exploit it for efficient performance,they'll remain as less effective.

plus,why do you think Mig-29K is a lesser jet when Russia itself will use it??do you seriously think that Russia will give China Su-33(as you assumed) and will retain a lesser jet???

 

[cloud_9]

Chinese carrier comes with built-in ADIZ and a torch,hence no comparison.

 

[BigDaddyWatch]

I never understood why India never went for the Varyag in the Ukraïne but for the Admiral Gorshkov in Russia. You could have gotten a bigger ship with better layout.

And i don't understand why Indian members keep saying that the Liaoning is "untested" or just a "training ship" planes can take off and land with weapons just like on the Vikramaditya only it can do it faster and better because of the better layout and bigger size.

 

[he-man]

Have you ever tried to understand why the Russians replacing the so called Su-33s with Mig-29Ks?

have u even heard about j-15??
i hope u have

let me say you something..you're overestimating China.don't go carried out by their hype.Aircraft Carrier operation isn't easy at all..many countries took decades just to perfect it,yet they failed to properly operate it.especially in the age of stand off missiles,the risk is too high to lead an aircraft carrier into battle.

as for Su-33,even chinese members don't acknowledge that J-15 is Su-33.

as for comparison with Mig-29,both are for different purpose.while J-15 is much larger along with more weapons carrying capability,its performance is floppy,as per chinese daily as they're saying that present attack range of J-15 using full load is only 120 km.they need catapult to launch a heavy aircraft like this one.until they,they'll fly only with 2 ton armament at most,giving Mig-29K a significant edge.as we know Liaoning is just for testing purpose,until they acquire an Ac with catapult and exploit it for efficient performance,they'll remain as less effective.

plus,why do you think Mig-29K is a lesser jet when Russia itself will use it??do you seriously think that Russia will give China Su-33(as you assumed) and will retain a lesser jet???

i started a thread on mig-29k detailing all the equipment it had .u can take a look and decide for urself .

as far as j-15 is concerned,rumour has it that they are already testing aesa in it.
on russia and india................we would have liked something better but budget constraints does not allow us.
and have u even seen the specs of 052 c and d??
take a look and then come back

 

[Abingdonboy]

they are capable of building carriers on the same pace as USA and in next 5-10 years they will prove it.

This is yet to be seen. It's possible they are able to churn out nice looking hulls at a similar pace to the US but there is NO WAY they're able to churn out ships up to the standards of USN CVNs and the such- they are decades behind on this front and as they are working in isolation it will take them a LONG old time to catch up. Here India, who is working closely with Western designers and nations, has the edge and should be able to catch up sooner than the Chinese.

so su-33 are unproven now??

Since when was the J-15 the Su-33? One is a derivative of the other and that too built by different nations/manufacturers with the J-15 being a result of reverse-engineering. So, yes, the J-15 is very much an unproven machine. Answer me this- how many landings has the J-15 made on a carrier? Is the J-15 certified to land at night or in rough-sea states aboard a PLA(N) ACC?

u know way way more than me and u will agree that mig-29k will be irrelevant the moment china adds an aesa into j-15 naval jets.besides performance of j-15 is far better than mig-29k in every conceivable way possible

If the Chinese put an AESA in their operational J-15s this will prove challenging to the MIG-29K/KUB of the IN for sure. However, as I've said, the Chinese have a LONG, LONG way to go before their carriers, fighters and naval aviators are up to a standard where they are threatening anyone. The biggest threat facing the PLA(N) carrier ambitions is not the USN but the inherent challenges carrier operations bring with them. All nations who are carrier-operating nations today have had to learn the hard way that the road is long and painful. The PLA(N) are quite possible a decade or more away from being a true carrier navy.


The Mig-29K vs J-15 debate is a bit redundant but I'll make the point that the RuN is retiring their SU-33s in favour of the Mig-29K. And even though the Liaoning is 30-50% larger than the Viky, the J-15 is a HUGE fighter and landing such a mammoth bird on a medium-sized carrier is fraught with danger not to mention opportunity costs (space). Even the USN operates medium-sized fighters (F-18 SH) off their 100,000 ton SUPERCARRIERS.

 

[he-man]

This is yet to be seen. It's possible they are able to churn out nice looking hulls at a similar pace to the US but there is NO WAY they're able to churn out ships up to the standards of USN CVNs and the such- they are decades behind on this front and as they are working in isolation it will take them a LONG old time to catch up. Here India, who is working closely with Western designers and nations, has the edge and should be able to catch up sooner than the Chinese.


Since when was the J-15 the Su-33? One is a derivative of the other and that too built by different nations/manufacturers with the J-15 being a result of reverse-engineering. So, yes, the J-15 is very much an unproven machine. Answer me this- how many landings has the J-15 made on a carrier? Is the J-15 certified to land at night or in rough-sea states aboard a PLA(N) ACC?



If the Chinese put an AESA in their operational J-15s this will prove challenging to the MIG-29K/KUB of the IN for sure. However, as I've said, the Chinese have a LONG, LONG way to go before their carriers, fighters and naval aviators are up to a standard where they are threatening anyone. The biggest threat facing the PLA(N) carrier ambitions is not the USN but the inherent challenges carrier operations bring with them. All nations who are carrier-operating nations today have had to learn the hard way that the road is long and painful. The PLA(N) are quite possible a decade or more away from being a true carrier navy.


The Mig-29K vs J-15 debate is a bit redundant but I'll make the point that the RuN is retiring their SU-33s in favour of the Mig-29K. And even though the Liaoning is 30-50% larger than the Viky, the J-15 is a HUGE fighter and landing such a mammoth bird on a medium-sized carrier is fraught with danger not to mention opportunity costs (space). Even the USN operates medium-sized fighters (F-18 SH) off their 100,000 ton SUPERCARRIERS.

my point being that china is planning to build a lot carrier post yhis experience and we will be naive to think otherwise.
the major advantage they have over us is that they have mastered the radars and avionics that they fit in their destroyers and this will help them churn out stuff without delays.
plus they will be building nuclear carriers soon enough and though its just a speculation,nevertheless its gonna happen.

but i am really not advertising that they will defeat us or vice versa but mere conceding the fact that we stand no where wrt to china when military is concerned.

its like pakistan claiming they have upper hand on india,ain't gonna happen.
the diff in economy between china and india is more than that between india and pakistan.

anyways war will never happen,,but i refuse to follow indian rhetoric of chinese fake,usless and cheap stuff.
facts must be presented where they are and the fact is we couldn't even refurbish this carrier!!

 

[GR!FF!N]

i started a thread on mig-29k detailing all the equipment it had .u can take a look and decide for urself .
as far as j-15 is concerned,rumour has it that they are already testing aesa in it.
on russia and india................we would have liked something better but budget constraints does not allow us.
and have u even seen the specs of 052 c and d??
take a look and then come back

who told you that budget constraints is the reason India chose Mig-29K???

as for aesa for J-15,we get this kind of rumour every day.an aircraft isn't something which grows within weeks..it takes a lot of testing and time to mature.unlike Chinese Aircraft,it is true for every others.

as for Type-52,did you see the specs of Kolkata and Chennai Class??its something you should be proud of,than eyeing some foreign platform.if you really wants to know what a destroyer is,why don't you take example of Zumwalt class???

you shouldn't jump up and down by seeing some foreign platform and crying a river for why we don't have that.every country has own requirements.see,even some are saying that J-15 is better than some previous F-18 models.do you see USA is crying for that??cause they know that F-18 fits right in their requirements,just like Mig-19K as ours.ours are air defence ship,not strike platform.so we need air superiority fighter with strike capability,not heavy strike aircraft.now are you trying to say that J-15 will be better in A2A than Mig-29K???cause thats impossible.J-15 is an underpowered fighter.also,Zhuk AE is there if its needed to refit with AESA.so,no need to worry.as a suggestion,I could say that you sit tight as many capable brains are working on it,who actually gets the burden of protecting our country.and they know what is best in their interest.

 

[he-man]

who told you that budget constraints is the reason India chose Mig-29K???

as for aesa for J-15,we get this kind of rumour every day.an aircraft isn't something which grows within weeks..it takes a lot of testing and time to mature.unlike Chinese Aircraft,it is true for every others.

as for Type-52,did you see the specs of Kolkata and Chennai Class??its something you should be proud of,than eyeing some foreign platform.if you really wants to know what a destroyer is,why don't you take example of Zumwalt class???

you shouldn't jump up and down by seeing some foreign platform and crying a river for why we don't have that.every country has own requirements.see,even some are saying that J-15 is better than some previous F-18 models.do you see USA is crying for that??cause they know that F-18 fits right in their requirements,just like Mig-19K as ours.ours are air defence ship,not strike platform.so we need air superiority fighter with strike capability,not heavy strike aircraft.now are you trying to say that J-15 will be better in A2A than Mig-29K???cause thats impossible.J-15 is an underpowered fighter.also,Zhuk AE is there if its needed to refit with AESA.so,no need to worry.as a suggestion,I could say that you sit tight as many capable brains are working on it,who actually gets the burden of protecting our country.and they know what is best in their interest.

u need to go back at look at the specs of those destroyers again.
the point is they have 6 052c already and making another 8 052d(3 are being constructed actively)
all the equipment from missiles to radars is indigenous(not sure of engines though)

and why are u so proud of kolkata class??
everything of value is foreign made except for sonars and combat management systems
heck all aesa radars are israeli and not a single indian weapon is there(barak-8 cannot be called indian)
so??

about mig-29k..................its a gross mistake by our navy to opt for such toothless aircraft.at the best they can compete with f-16 block 52,nothing more.
it looks okay now,imagine after 10 years.

on zhuk-ae,it was not good enough and has not been installed even in mig-35 and will take another 2-3 years to fully develop.in my opinion without waiting for a mlu we should upgrade mig-29k with zhuk-ae as soon as its ready.
after aesa incorporation ,irst must be upgraded too.it uses low powered ols-um which has a paltry range of only 15-45 km(approx).it must be fitted with something like ols-35
these 2 improvements are critical for it to have any edge over even pakistan,forget china