China's newest fighter jet J-16 copy of Sukhoi Su-30MKK

[ChineseTiger1986]

is it 1940-built bigger than Liaoning ?


Shinano underway during her sea trials in Tokyo Bay.
Career (Empire of Japan)

Name: Shinano
Namesake: Shinano Province
Builder: Yokosuka Naval Arsenal
Laid down: 4 May 1940
Launched: 8 October 1944
Completed: 19 November 1944 (for trials)
Fate: Sunk by the submarine USS Archer-Fish, 29 November 1944
General characteristics
Type: Aircraft carrier
Displacement: 65,800 metric tons (64,800 long tons) (standard)
69,151 metric tons (68,059 long tons) (normal)
Length: 265.8 m (872 ft 2 in) (o/a)
Beam: 36.3 m (119 ft 1 in)
Draught: 10.3 m (33 ft 10 in)
Installed power: 150,000 shp (110,000 kW)
12 × Kampon water-tube boilers
Propulsion: 4 × shafts
4 × geared steam turbines
Speed: 27 knots (50 km/h; 31 mph)
Range: 10,000 nmi (19,000 km; 12,000 mi) at 18 knots (33 km/h; 21 mph)
Complement: 2,400
Armament: 8 × twin 12.7 cm Type 89 dual-purpose guns
35 × triple 25 mm Type 96 AA guns
12 × 28 – 12 cm (4.7 in) AA rocket launchers
Armor:

• Waterline belt: 160–400 mm (6.3–15.7 in)
• Flight deck: 75 mm (3.0 in)

Aircraft carried: 47

The displacement is similar, but Liaoning is much more advanced and compact in design compared to a WWII supercarrier.

We are in the 21th century, nobody will be retarded to replicate a WWII supercarrier.

Lol. Dont twist statements to suit ur wish. US and Russia's 3rd, 4th and 5th gen classifications of aircrafts are clearly shown and classified.
Even a basic wiki read would reveal such knowledge. If Chinese have separate standards of classifications, so be it. Kindly dont compare with other countries to suit ur needs of posting.

US has followed Russia's classification standard on this one.

While China remains its own classification standard.

Still, they put J-10A into their 4th generation category.

Fourth-generation jet fighter - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

J-11B and J-16 are 3.5th gen for China and 4.5th gen for the rest.

 

[BoQ77]

Chinese Tiger : just show you what Japan could make by themselve in 1940 ... they didnot stop their research during over 70 years ... so how ?
J16 as I read is lower quality than Su30MKK, so I think the purpose of build J16 is a worse replacement of Su30MKK ... that introduced over 13 years ago ..

And you could see that what Japan built to dominate the world during WW2 ... at least 27 aircraft carriers were built ...
If I were Chinese, I should start to worry about the new raising of Japan

 

[Sugarcane]

Copy or Original - What matters is that it can drop bomb on enemies effectively or not? Good going China - keep it up

 

[BoQ77]

Copy ok , but they may not compete well with at the same time Russian version and up-to-date design like Su35, F18, F22 ...

By the way, who could point out, why China did not use aircrafts in Sino-Viet border conflict in 1979

 

[BoQ77]

We learn from Vietnam that, the grade of pilots are more important than slightly difference of aircrafts.
And you must know that Vietnam pilots have rich experience in real air combats than most of other countries, including US.

 

[Jazzbot]

Pics or it didn't happen..

 

[BigDaddyWatch]

ChineseTiger, is said that if you know your enemies and know yourself, you will not be imperiled in a hundred battles; if you do not know your enemies but do know yourself, you will win one and lose one; if you do not know your enemies nor yourself, you will be imperiled in every single battle.

Why you under estimate the Japanese ? Japan themselve can make more advanced aircraft carrier than Russia .... if they have no limit ...
You chinese know that US is the most advanced on it, but you cannot get it from US so Varyag is the only choice ...

Japanese experience in submarine also richer than Russia ...

Let study again Sun Tzu pal

Speak for yourself since you are seriously underestimating China. Take your own advice.

 

[antonius123]

Chinese Tiger : just show you what Japan could make by themselve in 1940 ... they didnot stop their research during over 70 years ... so how ?
J16 as I read is lower quality than Su30MKK, so I think the purpose of build J16 is a worse replacement of Su30MKK ... that introduced over 13 years ago ..

And you could see that what Japan built to dominate the world during WW2 ... at least 27 aircraft carriers were built ...
If I were Chinese, I should start to worry about the new raising of Japan

How do you know J16 is lower than su30MKK? do you know J16 is using AESA? lower RCS, lighter, latest electronic warfare, C4ISTAR data chain for acting as an AEW&C aircraft so that it can command a small team of fighters in air combat?

27 aircraft carriers were built by Japan, but they are old technology compared to current aircraft carrier. Currently Japan has no experience in building modern aircraft carrier.
Japan is also unable to build AEGIS system yet.

 

[BoQ77]

How do you know J16 is lower than su30MKK? do you know J16 is using AESA? lower RCS, lighter, latest electronic warfare, C4ISTAR data chain for acting as an AEW&C aircraft so that it can command a small team of fighters in air combat?

27 aircraft carriers were built by Japan, but they are old technology compared to current aircraft carrier. Currently Japan has no experience in building modern aircraft carrier.
Japan is also unable to build AEGIS system yet.

It's so fun to have the idea comparing 1940 AC with nowaday AC ... But the point is long long time ago, Japan used to make AC with large quantity, they're modern at that time.
And they know how to use them effectively to conquer the world ( at least they dominated well China, USA, Formosa, South east asia ... )

It must be nonsense to have the thinking that they have no experience in building more modern AC than 27 AC in WW2 ...
All research in military field of Japan in the dark ( because their limit of Constitution ), so their achievement seem to be derived from outside ... But it's not what you see ...
Let see what the accordingly effect after PM Shinzo Abe visit the war temple ... And after the Izumo aircraft carrier launched.

Someone worried about the ability to make nuke weapon of Japan, and their worry is understandable ...

It must be very very surprised to see the real achievement of them ...

For example, why they buy F35 with high price ? Because at initial, they agree to pay the development cost for it. So F35 is a Made by Japan too. Not what they just buy.
They make everybody think that Japan depends on outside supply but no.

Japan never give up what they ever good at, believe me !!!

Althought they have their limit, they could launch the satellite rocket effectively ... so now they are gaining their power, especially after the Constitution amendment.
And they collecting the support of several countries, incl. ASEAN

China say what they can dream of, whileas Japan say nothing at all, they keep doing something we dont know
So who is more dangerous.

About J16, even the producer of it cannot make sure what you stated.
So same as I tell my son "Hey son, you must be a PM in your early career, have your own airplane and 1 billion USD in your account"
He could have some money in his account afterward but is it 1 billion or not, I dont know, pal !!!

 

[BoQ77]

Japan could make another Gerald Ford aircraft if they have no limit ...
They could sell Nuke technology to any country if they want, the electricity of them depend much on Nuke ...
Why be nonsense to think that they are nuke unarmed ? and worry about China nuke ?

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

Japan could make another Gerald Ford aircraft if they have no limit ...
They could sell Nuke technology to any country if they want, the electricity of them depend much on Nuke ...
Why be nonsense to think that they are nuke unarmed ? and worry about China nuke ?

Many Viet members here seem to be a big fanboy of Japan.

But in reality, they can't, nor they possess such technology and capability.

To build a 70k tons WWII supercarrier doesn't translate your capability into building a 100k tons modern supercarrier.

Japan has been castrated in military technology for more than 60 years, and they will have a lot of missed homework to make up in order to catch up China.

 

[Okemos]

MM, why is a viet cheer leading for Japan in this thread. Viets are so annoying. To be honest, your opinions are simply least valued. Oh, please don't respond to me b/c I have put on ignore.

Also where did the article say copy? I only read that some "military experts said J16 improved Su-30. May I know who invented the first modern plane because all moderns planes are copies of the original plane.

Humanity improves itself by taking the best of previous technology and civilization and building upon those foundations. Technological breakthroughs like internet and steam engine are rare while technological improvements are the norm.

We use the word "copy" when we want to belittle someone, but we use "refinement, improvement" etc when we want to praise someone. Language is funny tool to manipulate and influence public opinions.

 

[BoQ77]

Yes, copy like when you put other's report into the photocopy machine and press Start ...

The point is, China always try to steal or buy the master sample prior to start the copying ... while make very less change to even appearance of the original.

For example, Russia upgrade Su27 into Su30 ... because they have know-how and can self-develop ...
For China, even you have Russian made Su27, you still have to buy Russian made Su30 in order to start the copying to J16.
Why you can just upgrade Chinese version of Su27 into J16 ? tell me now

 

[Genesis]

Copy ok , but they may not compete well with at the same time Russian version and up-to-date design like Su35, F18, F22 ...

By the way, who could point out, why China did not use aircrafts in Sino-Viet border conflict in 1979

Deng didn't want escalation, you can take that however you want, but the fact of the matter is Deng wanted certain armies away from Beijing military region and its immediate provinces.

We left right after the armies were replaced in the capital by forces loyal to Deng. You do the math.

I admit that China couldn't beat Vietnam at that time without substantial loses and maybe not at all, but it doesn't mean today the same applies. WW1 Italians lost to Africans, WW2 Africans were killed like flies while the Italians barely lost any. One victory doesn't mean another, and defeat doesn't mean another defeat. Situations change, if it didn't then by that logic China or France should still rule Vietnam.


Now as to Japan, Japan cannot make Gerald Ford class today, not because it can never do it, but because they haven't been doing it for a long time, the teams, the equipments were simply not there today. It's also been a long time since then and the aircrafts, and ships are all very different now.

Besides, one of the reasons China doesn't go crazy on military build up is the fact, this peaceful rise thing must still be at the fore front and spending too much relative to GDP is not seen as such. The same applies to Japan, what would the world think if Japan just suddenly started to build. If nothing else, it would justify China matching and surpassing that speed. You think Japan wants that.

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

Yes, copy like when you put other's report into the photocopy machine and press Start ...

The point is, China always try to steal or buy the master sample prior to start the copying ... while make very less change to even appearance of the original.

For example, Russia upgrade Su27 into Su30 ... because they have know-how and can self-develop ...
For China, even you have Russian made Su27, you still have to buy Russian made Su30 in order to start the copying to J16.
Why you can just upgrade Chinese version of Su27 into J16 ? tell me now

The only thing that J-16 borrows from Su-30MKK is its airframe.

As for the rest, different radar and different turbofan engine, you can't call it an exact copy.