China always has Mongolia

[Matrixx]

Fake chinese thread

 

[gpit]

Claim hawaii also..... .... I guess Mongolia invaded china in13th century (Jin Dynasty, Western Xia, the Dali Kingdom and the Southern Song)....

I know like many internet Indians, you are hopelessly confused and lost.

Jin was today’s Man not China at that time. Western Xia, neither. Dali belonged to today’s Bai…

After Mongol invaded China, they proclaimed that they were the Chinese, adopting Chinese culture, following Chinese tradition, and taking Chinese political systems. The ideas are reflected in no better article than <&#24314;&#22269;&#21495;&#35791;> or &#8220;Proclamation of the Foundation (of Yuan)&#8221;.

In fact, without supporting Chinese system and tradition, Mongols would have had hard time in attempting to conquer China.

In contrast, in India, it is Indians followed British systems, not the other way around, upto today.

Mongolians united China into a single nation, otherwise she had mostly been group of small kingdoms throughout her history.

I call this a complete BS. Sorry, but your post deserves its right name.

&#8220;small kingdoms throughout her history&#8221;? If you are not illiterate then refer to this map, albeit extremely simplified:

My jack@$$...

A summary depict of many of your education!

China always has Mongolia............................ but as a neighbor and invader.

Its Mongols that made chinese so afraid of that they build great wall of china to protect them self from mongols.

LOL! Your failed education really stuffs your brain with nothing but bashing your neighboring countries.


Great Wall, as a wonder of the world, situates INLAND of China.

In addition, they were built for against Xiongnu, where Mongols were only part of XiongNu.

In fact, there were lots of exchanges between the Chinese and Xiongnu since ancient times. It is those Xiongnu's luck that they can come into contact with and to awe grand Chinese civilization.

Back to the topic.

Mongolia is still a part of Republic of China (aka Taiwan). See the map of Republic of China (aka Taiwan)

but I disagree with your strategy of annexing Mongolia: it doesn&#8217;t have oil reserve. Moreover, it is poor like church mouse. It would be a burden to China, just like Mexico would be a burden to USA.

 

[Killuminati]

Who says that Mongolia is a part of china is crazy. Mongols, a whole different race and a nation. they have their own land stop talking bullsheet and trying to steal their grounds. Just stay behind your noobisch walls. Walls once made out of fear agains Altaic warriors (Turks) and also Mongols. .

 

[gpit]

China Map 1850.

We should annex Mongolia, support!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

China Map 1850

China Map 1880

I think one should not stress on annexing this and annexing that. Instead, one should emphasize how to make people believe that it&#8217;s worthy being ruled as such.

If you get the &#8220;mandate of Heaven&#8221;, people would come to you automatically. Otherwise, people would leave.

Thus is how ancient Chinese believing: &#8220;Barbarians&#8221; entering China become Chinese. Chinese leaving China become &#8220;barbarians&#8221;.

Therefore, the Chinese, for the moment, should look more inward than outward: prefect Chinese system, purge poison food (BTW, even &#8220;barbarian&#8221; doesn&#8217;t like that), give more say to the (wise) people&#8230; etc.

Nobody gives jack$hit about 1.3 B hans... it is about few 100 CCP folks decide to invade the other countries & CCP slaves following tem.... "peaceful rise of china"...

Better than one Italian waitress!

 

[gpit]

You misunderstand.

The Chinese annexation of Mongolia is in response to U.S. chokehold on Chinese oil from the Middle East. We are way past sanctions. We are at the stage of war.

That's why I also highlighted Mongolia's mineral resources. Economic sanctions don't mean a thing. Who cares about little bits of pieces of paper money during a war? Only resources matter.

There are 2,285,000 active Chinese troops. China will probably mobilize another 100,000,000 troops. Who wants to fight China and against a mechanized PLA in a land war?

Dear bro,

1) As I said, Mongolia has rich coal, copper etc. but it doesn’t have CRUDE OIL that China badly in need. Thus annexation of Mongolia to relieve crude oil stress is not the solution: Middle East to China mainly means the CRUDE.

2) I don’t think America would be as stupid as in Korea War. I.e., it is not to engage Chinese troops on land, it is going to CONFINE Chinese troops on land, and deny (or attempt to deny) Chinese challenges on any other theater.

Thus, your plan is not a feasible one.

In addition, you have been deeply influenced by western ideologies and methodologies. I don’t think true or native Chinese would think or behave as you've recommended.

Nonetheless, it would be a good subject for Hollywood playwright.

 

[gpit]

The better option is to surrender.


Which is not possible due to the US/Russian intervention.


It won't last long, as China depends on imports/exports to survive. With a naval blockage, give it a 6 month max before China waves its white flag.

Sorry to tell you; Koreans, be is south or north, have no say on world affaires. Of course, world powers can pretend to give you a say.

Oh, BTW, don't forget that Korea peninsular were historically divided into two or three countries. This normally created the most peaceful period for NE Asia.


That situation must preserve, now and future.

 

[kalu_miah]

Problem is China do not want let Mongolia join in too, and population data comes from Mongolia org site,
"Population: 2.754.314 people with density of 1.8 person/sq km"
DISCOVER MONGOLIA - OFFICIAL TOURISM WEBSITE OF MONGOLIA

I was referring to your figures in earlier post, they had misplaced decimal and showed ten times. For example:

****************Outer Mongolia******Inner Mongolia ********
area:************15.6million km2******11.8 million km2 ********
Population:**********27.5million********247million ***********
Mongolian Population:**22million(80%)*****42.3million(17%)** ****

Source: http://www.defence.pk/forums/world-affairs/190695-china-always-has-mongolia-9.html#ixzz1z7AqoL5b

I agree with you that Mongolia and China should not join to form union, I think both countries do not want it. But there should be high trade relations, in fact Mongolia is completely dependent on China for everything, but then this is going to become increasingly true for all nations around China, specially so for sparsely populated Siberia and Central Asia.

The economic relationship is similar as in past history, it is the military part that has changed.

 

[gpit]

Here is your empire, I can't see any united China before Mongol invasion.

Then obviously you are blind!

 

[gpit]

You make it so simple yet just made your life harder. Just like what happened to Japan when it decided to invade China in need of resources which in response led to sanctions by the U.S. which led to Pearl Harbor attack and war etc. Yes you don't care because you are already at war, but invading Mongolia could lead to other countries into an alliance against China which means energy is the least of its concerns. But like I said, if there is a war, go ahead and do it and hope it everything works like you said.

Let reply the scenario of the very unlikely (in next 30 years at least, I guess):

It is not going to be an outright occupation, it is vote. Many Chinese would penetrate the border, and pretended to be Mongols (remember Mongols in Inner Mongolia is about the same amount as in Outer Mongolia?). They do business, and make friends and marriage, etc. One day, somebody started to agitate a referendum: do you want to be part of China. The answer is “yes” or “no”.

If yes prevails, everything is OK.

If no prevails, in 3 years a same referendum is carried out again, until yes is reached.

This is how Sikkim becomes India.

This is how Hawaii becomes USA.

And this is the way modern regime change should be.

 

[gpit]

China and Pakistan should together lead and try to annex Mongolia . I think it is a good idea .

..

That's a typical Indian good idea.

We all know how good those good Indian ideas are. Otherwise, a more advanced India in 1940s wouldn't now 5 times lag behind then much a poorer China.

The funny thing is Taiwan doesn't even consider itself a part of China forget about Mongolia

Kuomintang News Network

Right!

Once you become democratized, lots of funny things pop up.

Just look at how could an Italian waitress & family rule such a vast democracy.

 

[kalu_miah]

Dear bro,

1) As I said, Mongolia has rich coal, copper etc. but it doesn&#8217;t have CRUDE OIL that China badly in need. Thus annexation of Mongolia to relieve crude oil stress is not the solution: Middle East to China mainly means the CRUDE.

2) I don&#8217;t think America would be as stupid as in Korea War. I.e., it is not to engage Chinese troops on land, it is going to CONFINE Chinese troops on land, and deny (or attempt to deny) Chinese challenges on any other theater.

Thus, your plan is not a feasible one.

In addition, you have been deeply influenced by western ideologies and methodologies. I don&#8217;t think true or native Chinese would think or behave as you've recommended.

Nonetheless, it would be a good subject for Hollywood playwright.

Somehow Martian2 is a bit heady and intoxicated with the rising power of China, and you are probably right, may be this has to do with Western upbringing. People who have inner insecurity, which happens when growing up in another alien society, sometimes want to compensate for it with outwards aggression and show of power.

For 21st century power politics, holding moral high ground will be more important than applying force unilaterally without a just cause. The post 9/11 invasion and occupation of Iraq and Afghanistan should be a lesson for all aspiring world powers. People will not take occupation lying down, they will fight with whatever they have.

He is talking about a situation where the US and China are at war, so in a war situation, anything is possible. The real question is why and how the US and China would fail to avoid getting into that position, which will mean a breakdown of the conflict management and diplomatic skills of ruling classes in both societies, putting the future of the world at peril. I think that the possibility of this happening is very remote.

A transition of world power structure where the top position goes to China from the US, will be something of a challenge for the future leadership of both countries. The US will get desperate and try many things to avoid the inevitable, the challenge for China will be to hold its fire and not get into an open conflict. For white people of the world, it will be a shock that will take long time for them to recover and then start thinking about regrouping.

Instead of thinking like the old middle kingdom, where other barbarians in the periphery pays tributes, I promote a different model, which is to develop allied peer powers, that are powerful enough on their own to not need external balancers and as a result remain somewhat allied with China, in the form of ASEAN+, Eurasia+, GCC+ and African Union. If good things are done for people, I think people never forget the good deeds and always remember it with gratitude. On the other hand aggression and bloodshed also remains as historical memory for people's and nations.

There are much challenge for the humanity going forward, environmental degradation (global warming, reduction of biodiversity, air/water/soil pollution etc.), population growth, spreading sustainable practices etc., but faulty and misguided politics/geopolitics and resulting instability are standing in our way. I hope the Chinese pick up the tab of world leadership, and do a better job than the leading countries of today. Those are the challenges we should be seriously thinking about, in my opinion.

Sorry for the long lecture.

 

[kalu_miah]

Let reply the scenario of the very unlikely (in next 30 years at least, I guess):

It is not going to be an outright occupation, it is vote. Many Chinese would penetrate the border, and pretended to be Mongols (remember Mongols in Inner Mongolia is about the same amount as in Outer Mongolia?). They do business, and make friends and marriage, etc. One day, somebody started to agitate a referendum: do you want to be part of China. The answer is &#8220;yes&#8221; or &#8220;no&#8221;.

If yes prevails, everything is OK.

If no prevails, in 3 years a same referendum is carried out again, until yes is reached.

This is how Sikkim becomes India.

This is how Hawaii becomes USA.

And this is the way modern regime change should be.

This is why I always say that people in small countries should realize that they are vulnerable to manipulation. If Mongolia wants to avoid getting absorbed by China, they will need to join Eurasian Union proposed by Russia, as soon as possible. If the leadership is clueless, then no amount of crying later will make a difference. But if Mongolians do not see a problem with their future with China and China is able to shape public opinion for them to join China, then kudos to China and its effort, and good luck to Mongolia within Chinese union. Who would object to a popular opinion and people's wish. Both should be congratulated for their happy marriage.

 

[Korean]

Many Chinese would penetrate the border, and pretended to be Mongols

Doesn't work because Mongols can tell Chinese apart just by looking. Mongols and Chinese look very different and there are Mongolian Neo-Nazis hunting Chinese in Mongolia.

They do business, and make friends and marriage

Making friends and marriage doesn't work because Mongols hate all things Chinese.

Mongolian neo-Nazis: Anti-Chinese sentiment fuels rise of ultra-nationalism | World news | The Guardian

Oh, Mongolian Neo-Nazis have no bones with Koreans who also have a large presence in Mongolia.

It is just the Mongolian racism against the Chinese that is fueling the Mongolian Neo-Nazis violence against Chinese.

 

[kalu_miah]

Doesn't work because Mongols can tell Chinese apart just by looking. Mongols and Chinese look very different and there are Mongolian Neo-Nazis hunting Chinese in Mongolia.


Making friends and marriage doesn't work because Mongols hate all things Chinese.

Mongolian neo-Nazis: Anti-Chinese sentiment fuels rise of ultra-nationalism | World news | The Guardian

Oh, Mongolian Neo-Nazis have no bones with Koreans who also have a large presence in Mongolia.

It is just the Mongolian racism against the Chinese that is fueling the Mongolian Neo-Nazis violence against Chinese.

2 year old news. Yes, this is what I was talking about earlier. Few years back, I have seen really nasty utube video rap songs by Mongolians even shooting Chinese (staged) at the end of the video, not sure if it is still up.

 

[Korean]

2 year old news.

And still true today. The Anti-China-ism is only getting stronger, not weaker.

At least Koreans got its Korean dramas getting 80% ratings on Mongolian TV to relax racism directed at Koreans and the older Mongols rant about how young Mongols go nuts for K-pop and learn to speak Korean, but Chinese don't get any of that.