Capabilities of PAF Dassault MIRAGE-III/V.

[GriffinsRule]

Pakistan could have bought the blue print from France for Mirage V or Mirage 4000 but PAF were and still is obsessed with F-16s.

Thats a nice joke

 

[jupiter2007]

Thats a nice joke

If Pakistan purchased the blueprint of Mirage V in 80s or even in early 90s, we would have been able to produce, modify/upgrade them with the help of friendly countries.

 

[LKJ86]

If Pakistan purchased the blueprint of Mirage V

You also have to buy the aviation industry system...

 

[jupiter2007]

You also have to buy the aviation industry system...

Just like Mirage ROSE upgrade project.....or Israeli or South African Mirage upgrade.

 

[LKJ86]

Just like Mirage ROSE upgrade project.....or Israeli or South African Mirage upgrade.

If you think it is OK, why would you consider to buy the blueprint...

 

[Shah_Deu]

Pakistan could have bought the blue print from France for Mirage V or Mirage 4000 but PAF were and still is obsessed with F-16s.

There is no such thing as a 'blueprint'. Its just a very vague term. Just like we got the 'blueprints' of Agosta 90B submarines and still cant build even one more example of it.

Just like the indians want to have 'technology transfer' and 'blueprints' of everything they can possibly dream of, the idea is literally something the europeans laugh at.

A fisherman can sell you as many fish you want, but he would never want to sell you his fishing rod and wont show you the tricks of his trade. Simply because, nobody wants to kill a goose laying 'golden eggs'.

We need to understand some things are embedded in the culture and psyche of a nation. Technology is on of them. Example: In Germany, let a girl aside, even an old lady would tell you exactly how big her car's engine is and how much PS (power) her car engine produces. I am a 100% sure that 99% people in our country wont know how much power their car produces (not the displacement). Let the car aside, do you know how much power a standard CD-70 engine in Pakistan produces or a Vespa Moped for that matter?

So the point being, that the nations live and breathe technology as their daily ritual. It is embedded in their culture over decades and is not something for sale; on the contrary, the products are. French could have sold us the assembly line of Mirages, yes, but just because it would not have made us independent of them. So it wouldn't have taught us anything significantly more than what we are currently doing by assembling the Mirages in our rebuild factory.

Expecting them to sell you their trade and kill their own customer just for a few bucks is just too naive of us to think. Otherwise, the Chinese would have bought not only the 'blueprints' but the whole European and US jet engine and aerospace industry decades ago..

 

[RJV]

The PAF wants a twin-engine design with super-cruising and enough upgrade room/future-proofing to one day carry directed energy weapons. IMO I don't think the PAF cares too much about maneuverability (should be good, but not the defining feature). The main goals are stealth, range and payload.

Really? You think or is it based on some interaction with someone? I was always assuming that PAF being a fighter oriented air-force cares way too much about maneuverability. we just seems to love small, single engine fighters.

In fact i was fearing that project AZM would turn up like JF-17. A good fighter in its class but not enough space for new toys.
Sorry for being off topic. But since you mentioned it in mirage thread, i couldn't resist myself.

 

[jupiter2007]

There is no such thing as a 'blueprint'. Its just a very vague term. Just like we got the 'blueprints' of Agosta 90B submarines and still cant build even one more example of it.

Just like the indians want to have 'technology transfer' and 'blueprints' of everything they can possibly dream of, the idea is literally something the europeans laugh at.

A fisherman can sell you as many fish you want, but he would never want to sell you his fishing rod and wont show you the tricks of his trade. Simply because, nobody wants to kill a goose laying 'golden eggs'.

We need to understand some things are embedded in the culture and psyche of a nation. Technology is on of them. Example: In Germany, let a girl aside, even an old lady would tell you exactly how big her car's engine is and how much PS (power) her car engine produces. I am a 100% sure that 99% people in our country wont know how much power their car produces (not the displacement). Let the car aside, do you know how much power a standard CD-70 engine in Pakistan produces or a Vespa Moped for that matter?

So the point being, that the nations live and breathe technology as their daily ritual. It is embedded in their culture over decades and is not something for sale; on the contrary, the products are. French could have sold us the assembly line of Mirages, yes, but just because it would not have made us independent of them. So it wouldn't have taught us anything significantly more than what we are currently doing by assembling the Mirages in our rebuild factory.

Expecting them to sell you their trade and kill their own customer just for a few bucks is just too naive of us to think. Otherwise, the Chinese would have bought not only the 'blueprints' but the whole European and US jet engine and aerospace industry decades ago..

France wouldn't care of selling blue print/technology of something they are no longer producing.

As far as China is concerned, they could have if there had the chance but Western governments put sanctions against China after 1989. Even now China can only buy Military goods from Russia. Whenever China got a chance, they bought or stole the technology.

 

[GriffinsRule]

France wouldn't care of selling blue print/technology of something they are no longer producing.

As far as China is concerned, they could have if there had the chance but Western governments put sanctions against China after 1989. Even now China can only buy Military goods from Russia. Whenever China got a chance, they bought or stole the technology.


View attachment 636599

Just because they give you the blue prints of something does not mean PAC will suddenly also gain the ability to produce the product.

 

[jupiter2007]

Just because they give you the blue prints of something does not mean PAC will suddenly also gain the ability to produce the product.

You don't buy a car if you don't know how to drive.....that part is understood.

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

Really? You think or is it based on some interaction with someone? I was always assuming that PAF being a fighter oriented air-force cares way too much about maneuverability. we just seems to love small, single engine fighters.

In fact i was fearing that project AZM would turn up like JF-17. A good fighter in its class but not enough space for new toys.
Sorry for being off topic. But since you mentioned it in mirage thread, i couldn't resist myself.

Well, the love for small, single-engine aircraft comes from a lack of options, either due to insufficient funding or thin markets. So, the ASR for sure is for a twin-engine fighter with enough room for directed energy weapons, and with supercruising engines. They clearly don't intend to compromise anywhere, but it's going to depend a lot on whether the PAF can access (either indigenously or from China/Turkey) the right design.

 

[jupiter2007]

In my humble opinion Pakistan need 2 squadrons of China's J-16D Electronic Warfare Plane.

 

[araz]

In my humble opinion Pakistan need 2 squadrons of China's J-16D Electronic Warfare Plane.
View attachment 636917View attachment 636917

I am not 100%sure but I have read that theChinese have taken the emphasis away from the J16s instead concentrating on the J20 plus possibly J31/35 for ship borne fighter. It was implied that there have been problems with the platform although I cannot remember whether they mentioned the problems.
Regards
A

 

[Scorpiooo]

I am not 100%sure but I have read that theChinese have taken the emphasis away from the J16s instead concentrating on the J20 plus possibly J31/35 for ship borne fighter. It was implied that there have been problems with the platform although I cannot remember whether they mentioned the problems.
Regards
A

There not much problem with j16,
actually J11 and J16 series perform same role an capabilities, they don't need to have 2 different plateform having similar capabilities and capacity

 

[jupiter2007]

There not much problem, actually J11 and J16 series profeem same role an capabilities, they meed not have 2 different plateform having similar capabilities and capacity

Anyone taking about JH-7 need to realize that China has stopped It’s production and will eventually replace It with J-16D.
J-16D is a modified version of J-11 with the bigger nose to house more hardware and should be considered by PAF/PN.