Capabilities of PAF Dassault MIRAGE-III/V.

[Deltadart]

Military aid was never about to build our Military at full rather, that aid was to support our purchases in respective domain so that the money stays there and we have the equipment. In current times; one can see that we are moving forward in mix of purchase but more of self reliance. The emphasis remains on ToT as well as training to catch the fish by ourselves. One cannot ignore the fact that Military itself can't do much as long as diplomacy is weak. After a long time, we are seeing some progress whereby geopolitics is changing while our diplomatic force is active that pretty much comes handy in regard to fulfill our Military Requirements.

Once I am weak to pay upfront, the area can be covered by political office. Just look at JF-17 development, our self reliance in regard to manufacturing some offensive weapons by ourselves and then, we are moving ahead with indigenous solutions in mix with ToT from friendly countries. As far as the mix of diplomacy & military chemistry remains affective; you will find more of progress. I will repeat again that not everything is being told to the public but on other hand, pay attention to the development in various areas from diplomatic offices to the geopolitics along with our importance in region and then, the role of Military to maintain the peace then you will see as where we are heading. Conclusively in regard to Military build up, understand the tactics that we don't or cannot rely much upon quantity rather, we choose to take routes with quality & fruition to fulfill our needs as well as helping ourselves to build the best of defence for the country. Be it Air, Land or Sea; just look at how Forces are moving ahead in acquisitions & development.

Remember that once JF-17 Thunder was in development; was mostly quoted as a counter to LCA Tejas but later on, the same performed much more than expected and proven to be at par with some of the most advanced fighters in arena, in several domains. That does not mean that it comes as a surprise for the Air-Force but our emphasis is on quality & building the most offensive product based upon available weapon option whereby Military will keep it under many wraps. Mirage in current form is delivering good enough and surely, men-in-Blue knows very well as what we need or could be done as per available resources.

Nothing more left to be said after your comprehensive post. thx.

 

[Basel]

if anything at all, it should be BVR upgrade...with its air frame and no fly by wire..would we want WVR battle?

With HMS/D and A-darter or ASRAAM its possible as our pilots are daredevils.

Although with proper upgrade FBW will be part of it.

 

[denel]

if anything at all, it should be BVR upgrade...with its air frame and no fly by wire..would we want WVR battle?

HMS will provide that advantage especially the new darter; with over shoulder visual launch.

 

[jamal18]

Israel did it, SA did it so what is our fear? It's an excuse for not doing something.

Because they can do it, it shows that we can't do it! Pakistani inferiority complex.

 

[Jammer]

If you don't know who Delta Dart is then you need to pay more attention. This is what is called information warfare. Be advised!

Don't be Stupid!

loose lips sink ships!

 

[CT-9914 "Snoop"]

Israel did it, SA did it so what is our fear? It's an excuse for not doing something.

Probably because our airframes are approaching 40-50 years of age. Kfir/Nesher and Cheetahs were new airframes not converted from Mirages. Our production is currently focused on the JF-17 and since the higher ups are convinced the JF-17 is able to cover the role of the Mirage/F-7P/A-5, I doubt anyone will be willing to invest so much in the Mirage.

This airframe in China has been labeled as a IIIEP but it has a much thinner nose akin to the 5, and a different tail than either the regular IIIEP or the 5PA. Looks more similar to a 5EF but the serial number 67-119 obviously belongs to a IIIEP.

There's this photo by Alan Warnes also of a Mirage IIIEP apparently, again with a different nose but this time the tail is correct.
Both of these airframes have a bulge below their noses which isn't the same as a ROSE II/III's FLIR and 5PA airframes don't have it.

A "regular" IIIEP for comparison.
So did the IIIEP come in different variants or have these airframes been misidentified?

 

[aliyusuf]

So did the IIIEP come in different variants or have these airframes been misidentified?

The serial number suggests that no wrong identification occurred. Most likely the nose of the aircraft with serial number 116 was modified at some point of it's service. The photo of the Mirage-IIIEP, below with serial number 101, is with the original nose.

Both of these airframes have a bulge below their noses which isn't the same as a ROSE II/III's FLIR and 5PA airframes don't have it.

According to the book "Modern Air Combat by Bill Gunston & Mick Spick" it is a Doppler Rangefinder. How it works is not stated.

 

[CT-9914 "Snoop"]

The serial number suggests that no wrong identification occurred. Most likely the nose of the aircraft with serial number 116 was modified at some point of it's service. The photo of the Mirage-IIIEP, below with serial number 101, is with the original nose.


According to the book "Modern Air Combat by Bill Gunston & Mick Spick" it is a Doppler Rangefinder. How it works is not stated.

And what about this one? Serial number is 04-105 and the airframe is clearly a 5R and '04 will mean an ex-Libyan 5DR but xx-1xx should mean it's a IIIEP. Maybe the serial conventions have changed or for some reason are probably being used/reused on different airframes.

 

[aliyusuf]

And what about this one? Serial number is 04-105 and the airframe is clearly a 5R and '04 will mean an ex-Libyan 5DR but xx-1xx should mean it's a IIIEP. Maybe the serial conventions have changed or for some reason are probably being used/reused on different airframes.

Very curious indeed. This is definitely not Mirage-IIIEP. You are probably right ... they may have re-serialed all the oldest airworthy Mirage-III/V with the xx-1xx serial scheme.

 

[Readerdefence]

HMS will provide that advantage especially the new darter; with over shoulder visual launch.

Hi denel if I may ask what kind of HMDS SAF were using with cheetahs and if possible to share the pictures over here
Thank you

 

[Deltadart]

If you don't know who Delta Dart is then you need to pay more attention. This is what is called information warfare. Be advised!

Don't be Stupid!

loose lips sink ships!

Oh not you again. So you managed to crawl out of the hole yet again? Your patriotism is in line with zardari, nawaz and countless other scoundrels.

 

[messiach]

@denel @Deltadart Your points on SA cheeta while are definitely valid, but we are now committed in developing a highly survivable 5G platform with deep inland and maritime strike capability.

 

[GriffinsRule]

There was no Mirage aircraft by the serial number 119 in PAF. The one in China is a hodgepodge of parts from different aircraft. Remember PAF bought a lot of airframes for spares that were never put into service and the example in China is one of them.

Mirage IIIEPs were serial 67.101-67.118.

As for the 104 picture you posted, it is serial number 04.104 and is a Mirage VDR and not from the original PAF order.

Now as for 67.116 pictured above, clearly PAF has taken out the original and by now defunct radar of the 70s and replaced it with a nose similar to one on Mirage 5s, but it is the only surviving IIIEP airframe left from the original 18 that were delivered to the PAF in 1967.

That should clear up the confusion.

 

[Jammer]

If you don't know who Delta Dart is then you need to pay more attention. This is what is called information warfare. Be advised!

Don't be Stupid!

loose lips sink ships!

Oh not you again. So you managed to crawl out of the hole yet again? Your patriotism is in line with zardari, nawaz and countless other scoundrels.

You are not very smart are you Dart...please regale us with your fake patriotism. Why don't you have a jai hind sandwich and chill out. Once again nice try, my Indian neighbor.

 

[CT-9914 "Snoop"]

There was no Mirage aircraft by the serial number 119 in PAF. The one in China is a hodgepodge of parts from different aircraft. Remember PAF bought a lot of airframes for spares that were never put into service and the example in China is one of them.

Mirage IIIEPs were serial 67.101-67.118.

As for the 104 picture you posted, it is serial number 04.104 and is a Mirage VDR and not from the original PAF order.

View attachment 582549


Now as for 67.116 pictured above, clearly PAF has taken out the original and by now defunct radar of the 70s and replaced it with a nose similar to one on Mirage 5s, but it is the only surviving IIIEP airframe left from the original 18 that were delivered to the PAF in 1967.

That should clear up the confusion.

Thanks a lot for clearing that up. So does 116 lack a radar now and as such is pretty much a Mirage 5?
And why "105" when all other Libyan M5's are "04-0xx"?