Capabilities of PAF Dassault MIRAGE-III/V.

[Philip the Arab]

You cannot assume comparative RCS just by looking at the size of an object.

F-22 & B-2 are quite big too. Bigger than JF-17 & F-16. What makes their RCS only a fraction of the latter two.

Very simply put, that would primarily be the shape and then the composition of material used to make it's exposed surfaces. The shape diverts radar signals and the material absorbs them. Hence lesser radar signals get reflected back to make it less visible to enemy radar.

The JH-7A may quite likely have a big RCS. So does the MKI. And when you have a non-AESA non-LPI radar on board, switching it on increases the RCS greatly. Achilles heel for the MKI.

But the point is that whether the new proposed JH-7AII (equipped with AESA & TDL with Link-17) can effectively launch a number of SOWs from long distance and then scoot before the enemy can do anything about it? If it can, then we have a platform that can hit farther and much harder than what we currently have.


Wouldn't post a reply on this even if I knew.

I can find the answer online about the nuke capable aircraft but don't feel like looking.

Can't cruise missiles be ground launched and do just what the JH-7 can do?

 

[aliyusuf]

Can't cruise missiles be ground launched and do just what the JH-7 can do?

Launching ALCMs (from the air), farther towards the enemy, can cover hell of a lot more targets deeper inside enemy territory and gives added tactical & strategic advantage.

 

[Philip the Arab]

Launching ALCMs (from the air), farther towards the enemy, can cover hell of a lot more targets deeper inside enemy territory and gives added tactical & strategic advantage.

Getting inside Indian airspace for extended periods of time is very risky. Indian air defense is probably under estimated right now and will expand with Israeli purchases.

 

[aliyusuf]

Getting inside Indian airspace for extended periods of time is very risky. Indian air defense is probably under estimated right now and will expand with Israeli purchases.

These are pretty good at low level flight. That is a help. It's lower level ride performance is much better than our Mirages. Especially for the naval scenario, these would be a great added punch against enemy fleet. The JH-7AII will also be sporting a good ELINT/EW suite.

These need not stay too long inside enemy air space. But they could launch SOWs from further inside enemy territory than our Mirages (which are not optimized for low level flight).

 

[Philip the Arab]

These are pretty good at low level flight. That is a help. It's lower level ride performance is much better than our Mirages. Especially for the naval scenario, these would be a great added punch against enemy fleet. The JH-7AII will also be sporting a good ELINT/EW suite.

These need not stay too long inside enemy air space. But they could launch SOWs from further inside enemy territory than our Mirages (which are not optimized for low level flight).

What do you mean by cover a lot more territory? The quote 2 posts up.

 

[MastanKhan]

why dont you tell the story...

Hi,

It has been told here 20 + times---.

And back to square one ... very predictable.

To other members here, who like myself are not privy to the internal decision making of PAF, here is a point to ponder. We are in love with our 60s vintage Mirage III/Vs, albeit updated. We tried, not once but three time to acquire Mirage 2000s from France and then again from Qatar at least once. That is how highly PAF seems to think of Dassault and its products. Now, if someone comes along to tell you, without any supporting evidence, or heck even any context, that PAF thought very little of their latest and greatest fighter jet, to take it with a grain of salt and keep your skeptical caps on.

Hi,

The story has been told here 20 + times---. Search it---find it---learn about it---.

 

[syed_yusuf]

Hi,

It has been told here 20 + times---.



Hi,

The story has been told here 20 + times---. Search it---find it---learn about it---.

i agree, without any disrespect, dont want to go into M2000 discussion.

 

[MystryMan]

These are pretty good at low level flight. That is a help. It's lower level ride performance is much better than our Mirages. Especially for the naval scenario, these would be a great added punch against enemy fleet. The JH-7AII will also be sporting a good ELINT/EW suite.

These need not stay too long inside enemy air space. But they could launch SOWs from further inside enemy territory than our Mirages (which are not optimized for low level flight).

And IAF has to deploy assets to counter this strike force of JH-7AII, thining its forces in other sectors as pointed out by @MastanKhan.

 

[The Accountant]

Guys i dont know why we behave naive. There is no 2 question about utility of a dedicated navy strike fighter but what is more necessary offence or defence ? PN prime asset even as off today are F22P ... those ships cant even defend themselves properly and we are talking about attack aircrafts.

We have taken first right step for naval defense in the form of proxurement of submarines type 54 and milgem along with deployment of herba. Completion of these weapon systems will take a decade after which we might have funds for dedicated naval attack fighters...

 

[MastanKhan]

And IAF has to deploy assets to counter this strike force of JH-7AII, thining its forces in other sectors as pointed out by @MastanKhan.

The enemy flank is tactically the most vulnerable area. You can reach in from over the sea from so many different points use your standoff weapons and be gone.
Our farthest runways on the coast are far away from the enemy radars. Even their awacs would have a hard time seeing when our aircraft took off.
Missiles like the cm400akg can be launched from 250 miles away on the ground targets from over the ocean.

The panic that strike would set in mumbai would be worth the effort.

Guys i dont know why we behave naive. There is no 2 question about utility of a dedicated navy strike fighter but what is more necessary offence or defence ? PN prime asset even as off today are F22P ... those ships cant even defend themselves properly and we are talking about attack aircrafts.

We have taken first right step for naval defense in the form of proxurement of submarines type 54 and milgem along with deployment of herba. Completion of these weapon systems will take a decade after which we might have funds for dedicated naval attack fighters...

Hi

JH7 can be had for almost no cost right now and just turn the tables on the enemy.
The enemy frigates close to gwadar would be turning tail right away.
No ship captain wants to see an aircraft capable of launch supersonic 2 ashm’s at it.

 

[The Accountant]

The enemy flank is tactically the most vulnerable area. You can reach in from over the sea from so many different points use your standoff weapons and be gone.
Our farthest runways on the coast are far away from the enemy radars. Even their awacs would have a hard time seeing when our aircraft took off.
Missiles like the cm400akg can be launched from 250 miles away on the ground targets from over the ocean.

The panic that strike would set in mumbai would be worth the effort.



Hi

JH7 can be had fir almost no cost right now and just turn the tables on the enemy.
The enemy frigates close to gwadar would be turning tail right away.
No ship captain wants to see an aircraft capable of launch supersonic 2 ashm’s at it.

Even thunder can launch cm400 akg... even a squadron of jf7 with all the integration training and weapon system will not be less than 600 to 700 million dollars. Kindly do note that a squadron is nothing .. for a little longer war you can run just one sortie per aircraft per day at max. And by that much sortie how much area could have been covered? While i agree that a dedicated heavy aircraft will change the attack dynamics but right now oñ the priority table defence of EEZ and protection of sea line of communication was far more important... now with the given projects of milgem type 54, herbah, f22P upgradation, 8 AIP submarines and upgrdaed Agusta PN suerly need the final peice of the puzzle i.e. a tool of heavy strike ... but i think it will take atleast half a decade to start anoth naval procurement ...

 

[Hakikat ve Hikmet]

The enemy flank is tactically the most vulnerable area. You can reach in from over the sea from so many different points use your standoff weapons and be gone.
Our farthest runways on the coast are far away from the enemy radars. Even their awacs would have a hard time seeing when our aircraft took off.
Missiles like the cm400akg can be launched from 250 miles away on the ground targets from over the ocean.

The panic that strike would set in mumbai would be worth the effort.



Hi

JH7 can be had fir almost no cost right now and just turn the tables on the enemy.
The enemy frigates close to gwadar would be turning tail right away.
No ship captain wants to see an aircraft capable of launch supersonic 2 ashm’s at it.

They believe in the conjectures as per the KITAP!! Bombay is the key word here!!! Top Hindutuva minds, along with their financiers, live in that Maratha area!!! Don’t wait for them to reach Panipat!!! When they feel insecure inside their own fortified homes they’ll crumble down!!! A couple of bomb blasts at the Bombay Stock Exchange was enough to put a mass scale genocide of the Indian Muslims - even a shame for the BD Muslims!!!! And, put Gujrat in the equation too!! You have now the recipe to cause the “Perfect Storm” inside their minds, which is darker than the bottom of the dark ocean at a dark night covered by the dark clouds....

 

[SQ8]

@MastanKhan @Bilal Khan (Quwa) Thats a 16-19t giant from spratley islands, underpowered by series-9 engines & before by r-r twin spey. The last one i saw had no better terrain hugging capability then what we had. These radar-discreate creatures would be difficult to defend against susraeli A2A weapons. Its carriage capacity of YJ12 & ELiNT is a credit - useful feature. Before BOTS look to see what capacity enhancement it can bring versus what we have versus short and longterm line maintenance costs.

Told the supposed aviation genius this some 5 years ago when the repeated rants on the JH-7 began.

Its a 60’s design and thoroughly unsuited to our needs.

 

[GriffinsRule]

i agree, without any disrespect, dont want to go into M2000 discussion.

Aircraft in the story were F-7PG and Rafale, not Mirage 2000s

 

[MastanKhan]

@GriffinsRule

You cannot assume comparative RCS just by looking at the size of an object.

F-

Even thunder can launch cm400 akg... even a squadron of jf7 with all the integration training and weapon system will not be less than 600 to 700 million dollars. Kindly do note that a squadron is nothing .. for a little longer war you can run just one sortie per aircraft per day at max. And by that much sortie how much area could have been covered? While i agree that a dedicated heavy aircraft will change the attack dynamics but right now oñ the priority table defence of EEZ and protection of sea line of communication was far more important... now with the given projects of milgem type 54, herbah, f22P upgradation, 8 AIP submarines and upgrdaed Agusta PN suerly need the final peice of the puzzle i.e. a tool of heavy strike ... but i think it will take atleast half a decade to start anoth naval procurement ...

Hi,

Off course thunder can launch the CM400---no doubt about it---but the issue is different---.

To get within the launch range would be very difficult---once you get in there---then you need a higher percentage of launch---.

What if your target is locked---you push the button and that one missile does not launch---.

What if you launch one missile and that one missile gets intercepted---for that reason---you need a 2 missile carrier---that increases your chance of strike---.