Capabilities of PAF Dassault MIRAGE-III/V.

[CrazyZ]

Can these things be converted into unmanned drones? They have a great strike potential and PAC can keep the airframes up...not sure about the engines.

 

[denel]

Can these things be converted into unmanned drones? They have a great strike potential and PAC can keep the airframes up...not sure about the engines.

Why? You are still having a massive plane; there are far better alternatives.

 

[CrazyZ]

Why? You are still having a massive plane; there are far better alternatives.

Bigger payload.....with very high dash speed. Could be a loyal wing man for JF-17 in A to A engagements.

 

[FOOLS_NIGHTMARE]

Formation flying over the clouds .

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=1880280418786422

 

[nomi007]

Mirage 3 and Mirage 5, check the different noses

 

[Cookie Monster]

The problem with the H-4 is that it still requires the host platform to guide the missile to target, meaning the time on target for the pilots is too high and therefore there is much greater risk than a true stand off platform.

The REK is fire and forget. H-4 is not.

If they could upgrade the targetting to be autonomous, then there is still value in the H-4, otherwise it is time to move on to other platform..

Given the miniaturization in modern electronics, it is a project that PAF and Pakistani industry could attempt to undertake, and in doing so, preserve weapon stockpiles of this platform..

Manual guidance can still have its uses under various circumstances. Ur point would be valid if all of Pak's stand off weapons required manual guidance...however that's not the case. Pak has both...that gives flexibility to use either depending on the circumstances.

 

[Marker]

Can these things be converted into unmanned drones? They have a great strike potential and PAC can keep the airframes up...not sure about the engines.

A possibility.
Obvious mods will be:
1. Modification in flight control - fly by wire system.
2. Modification in weapon delivery system.
3. Enhancement in fuel storage capacity.
4. Enhancement in weapon storage capacity.
and many more.

A drone which can fly 59000 ft above sea level and speed +2.0 mach, carrying 2500 kg weapon load and combat range more than 1500 km.

But this can be possible once PAF start considering to replace these aircraft and project Azm start giving some results.

 

[Armchair]

Landing will be a big issue for drone conversion. Mirages are difficult to land.
I think the idea of a loyal wingman though, is a good one. There are many possibilities for a futuristic composite squadron structure:

1. Squadron size could be "reduced" to 16 aircraft per squadron, with 4 attached unmanned loyal wingmen added. These could be relatively simple UCAVs that can fly at mach 0.7 - 0.9 and have 5 pylons. For a2a that could be 4x BVR and 1x WVR.
2. of the 16 aircraft, 4 could be Growler types, with heavily packed EW systems. This could create a flight of say, 2x JF-17, 1x drone, 1x JF-17EW. The combined punch of it would be far greater than the sum of parts.

The drone could be used, for instance - a JF-17 could fire BVRs, not only from its own pylons but from the pylons of the UCAV. The UCAV could also be sent forward to break into the enemy aircraft's NEZ, while the JF-17 stays at a safe distance. A bit like setting off your hunting dogs, while fox hunting, and as the "fox" engages your dogs, you just pick them off from a distance.

I personally don't think the Mirages should be retired at all. I think they should be held in "semi-active" duty. Create a group of officers who just retired, who want to stay as "part timers". They will continue to serve in this capacity for an additional 4 years, and be assigned Mirages. Instead of the 100 - 200 hours flown every year to stay in top flying shape, they will be flying simulators 80x hours and fly the actual mirages 30x hours a year.

This is how France attempted to decrease the cost of operations at one point, due to budget issues. It would allow the PAF to hold on to the Mirages for a very, very, long time.

 

[denel]

Bigger payload.....with very high dash speed. Could be a loyal wing man for JF-17 in A to A engagements.

Nope - poor when compared to redesigned planes.

these need to be put into museams or just flying model.

 

[Marker]

Landing will be a big issue for drone conversion. Mirages are difficult to land.
I think the idea of a loyal wingman though, is a good one. There are many possibilities for a futuristic composite squadron structure:

1. Squadron size could be "reduced" to 16 aircraft per squadron, with 4 attached unmanned loyal wingmen added. These could be relatively simple UCAVs that can fly at mach 0.7 - 0.9 and have 5 pylons. For a2a that could be 4x BVR and 1x WVR.
2. of the 16 aircraft, 4 could be Growler types, with heavily packed EW systems. This could create a flight of say, 2x JF-17, 1x drone, 1x JF-17EW. The combined punch of it would be far greater than the sum of parts.

The drone could be used, for instance - a JF-17 could fire BVRs, not only from its own pylons but from the pylons of the UCAV. The UCAV could also be sent forward to break into the enemy aircraft's NEZ, while the JF-17 stays at a safe distance. A bit like setting off your hunting dogs, while fox hunting, and as the "fox" engages your dogs, you just pick them off from a distance.

I personally don't think the Mirages should be retired at all. I think they should be held in "semi-active" duty. Create a group of officers who just retired, who want to stay as "part timers". They will continue to serve in this capacity for an additional 4 years, and be assigned Mirages. Instead of the 100 - 200 hours flown every year to stay in top flying shape, they will be flying simulators 80x hours and fly the actual mirages 30x hours a year.

This is how France attempted to decrease the cost of operations at one point, due to budget issues. It would allow the PAF to hold on to the Mirages for a very, very, long time.

Mirages are difficult to land. For in-experienced pilots may be. But for skilled Mirage drone operator, I do not agree. The drone Mirages may have fly by wire systems installed, hence easy to control.

It is better for PAF pilots to switch to more advance and safer aerial weapon systems, instead sticking to Mirages as manned strike fighters.

Since PAF is only AF holding a large inventory of Mirages 3s and 5s and its spares along with engines and possess maintenance and overhauling facilities, turning these into drones will be next viable use.

This way, without investing a lot, PAF will have 6th generation aerial domination capability.

 

[Windjammer]

Low Flying Delta.

 

[syed_yusuf]

We all are convinced that PAF ops need a delta fighter, just wondering why paf did not invest in this technology along with jft. Like paf could have used SA experience and JFT evolution to build a new delta fighter in class of mirage 2000 with modern avionics and engine that could have served paf for long time. Just wondering...

 

[jupiter2007]

We all are convinced that PAF ops need a delta fighter, just wondering why paf did not invest in this technology along with jft. Like paf could have used SA experience and JFT evolution to build a new delta fighter in class of mirage 2000 with modern avionics and engine that could have served paf for long time. Just wondering...

That was my question 20 years ago.

 

[SQ8]

We all are convinced that PAF ops need a
Delta fighter, just wondering why paf did not invest in this technology along with jft. Like paf could have used SA experience and JFT evolution to build a new delta fighter in class of mirage 2000 with modern avionics and engine that could have served paf for long time. Just wondering...

wrong way to approach the problem -PAF did/does not want a delta winged fighter.
PAF wants a strike aircraft capable of certain performance specifications which ANY fighter could meet whether it has a delta or cropped delta or lenticular wing ; those requirements are what need fulfillment.

Stop looking at what the PAF wants, look at what is the problem the PAF is trying to solve.

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

wrong way to approach the problem -PAF did/does not want a delta winged fighter.
PAF wants a strike aircraft capable of certain performance specifications which ANY fighter could meet whether it has a delta or cropped delta or lenticular wing ; those requirements are what need fulfillment.

Stop looking at what the PAF wants, look at what is the problem the PAF is trying to solve.

The very first true strike platform the PAF wanted was the A-7. The US had toyed with the idea of selling us those, but withdrew because we weren't budging from the nuclear program. This is despite the fact that we were on the verge of inducting ballistic missiles anyways. It goes to show that an air strike platform is still a very valuable asset, and a very difficult one to get (forcing us to basically foot its development ourselves).