Capabilities of PAF Dassault MIRAGE-III/V.

[Viking 63]

Not to forget that Mirages are DELTA wings !! these aircraft are difficult to handle at low altitudes !! case in point are Falksland island war in 1982 !! The sluggish harriers were beaten badly at high altitude s against Mirages ,, but at lower levels they got their *** kicked by the british pilots !!! I think its high time let this aircarft go !!

 

[MastanKhan]

Can Pakistani mirages be upgraded to mirage 2000 standards?
Or at least fly by wire?

Hi,

Welcome to the board----. Can a toyota corolla be made into a toyota cressida---if your answer is no and you understand the reasons behind it---then you can understand why the mirage 3/5 cannot be switched to mirage 2000's.

Not to forget that Mirages are DELTA wings !! these aircraft are difficult to handle at low altitudes !! case in point are Falksland island war in 1982 !! The sluggish harriers were beaten badly at high altitude s against Mirages ,, but at lower levels they got their *** kicked by the british pilots !!! I think its high time let this aircarft go !!

Hi,

It was in the similar manner the F86 sabre was a great high altitude fighter interceptor and the gnat a low altitude.

 

[acetophenol]

Haha, all the airframes that could be bought, were bought by Pakistan.

Ex French, Australian, Libyan and Spanish ones. But they are all 40 years old. JF-17 thunder offers improved performance in all aspects, so it makes no sense to keep Mirage any longer. PAF invested in local overhauling of Mirage since Mirage formed the backbone and served for over 40 years. Time to let that legacy go. Like i said in the earlier post, the SNECMA Atar engine is prone to problems as well, based on a WW II design, flying in the 21st century. When you have better alternatives, you need to adapt and change.

BTW F-7 and F-7PGs also have overhaul and rebuild factories in Pakistan, along with the F-6 (Mig 19) that preceded them. F-16s also have a sizeable overhaul facilities in Pakistan.

I was infact thinking about the possibility of Pakistan buying some second hand Mirage 2000s.Though as an Indian i don't want Pakistan to buy any of the Mirage 2000s and want IAF to acquire some,Mirage 2000s will be a good option for PAF IMO.

 

[Donatello]

I was infact thinking about the possibility of Pakistan buying some second hand Mirage 2000s.Though as an Indian i don't want Pakistan to buy any of the Mirage 2000s and want IAF to acquire some,Mirage 2000s will be a good option for PAF IMO.

The possibility did come up when there was some talk of PAF seeking to buy the ex-Middle-Eastern airforce Mirage 2000s. But it never materialized due to unknown reasons (at least i don't know the complete story)

Other wise, PAF was looking to buy Mirage 2000s in late 80s and early 90s, but again didn't go for it and set it's eyes on F-16s only and bought retired Mirage III/Vs from France and Australia. But that is a different topic.

 

[fatman17]

M2K is a complex platfrom which requires higher maintenance than most similar platforms. go ask the Tiwanese. they want to pawn off their mirages and there are no buyers. the armee-del-air has a huge inventory of similar mirages with no takers. Brazil purchased a dozen mirages and now have retired them even after the upgrade.

 

[Nishan_101]

Maulvi where are you getting these numbers from?

Why are you saying me: "Maulvi"?

Also I think there are much needed things to be installed in JF-17 even in the first phase but still love to see it in its Block-IIs.

 

[Nishan_101]

I think if JF-17s was made with more potent things in the Block-I version along with its dual seat and production like 100 of each blocks in every 5 years time then we should have replaced the Mirages first and about 100 of them in first 5 years.

 

[Informant]

Why are you saying me: "Maulvi"?

Also I think there are much needed things to be installed in JF-17 even in the first phase but still love to see it in its Block-IIs.

Called you a maulvi at your signature. What you have is wishful thinking. Khair but then again we can have suggestions of varying degrees of possibility.

 

[Viking 63]

PAF needs to mature its JF-17 programme ! Pakistan is a large and big enough country to have its owm High Tech weapons Industry, including Aviation, when france, sweden and Italy can do it why not Paks !!!

 

[untitled]

Not to forget that Mirages are DELTA wings !! these aircraft are difficult to handle at low altitudes !! case in point are Falksland island war in 1982 !! The sluggish harriers were beaten badly at high altitude s against Mirages ,, but at lower levels they got their *** kicked by the british pilots !!! I think its high time let this aircarft go !!

There was only one dog fight between the Mirages and the harriers. Two mirages were hit (one later destroyed by friendly fire at the Port Stanely airfield). After that the Mirage rarely went on escort missions for the bombing runs of the SkyHawks and the Daggers (the Israeli made Mirage Vs). And yes there was the instance of a Dagger firing a Shafrir missile at a Sea Harrier but that was fired out of range.

 

[Tacticool]

Whenever i read about a dogfight. It states that x-fighter has edge in higher altitude and y has advantage at lower. Can there be a fighter good in both higher and lower equally?

 

[HariPrasad]

French Planes are always good. Look at the payload of 4000 KG. It is awesome. Many modern day fighter even do not have it. They cause concern to enemies even though they are old.

This is where they differ from some Junk plane who are simply target practice for enemy plane.

 

[notorious_eagle]

I was infact thinking about the possibility of Pakistan buying some second hand Mirage 2000s.Though as an Indian i don't want Pakistan to buy any of the Mirage 2000s and want IAF to acquire some,Mirage 2000s will be a good option for PAF IMO.

PAF did look at this option but the cost was simply too high. Besides the acquisition cost, the Mirage 2000 is a ver maintenance oriented aircraft. There is a reason why Taiwan and Greece placed additional orders for the F16's but did not acquire additional Mirage 2000.

 

[untitled]

Whenever i read about a dogfight. It states that x-fighter has edge in higher altitude and y has advantage at lower. Can there be a fighter good in both higher and lower equally?

Variable geometry was thought of as a solution
Then it brought its own problems

even in the Mirage

 

[acetophenol]

The possibility did come up when there was some talk of PAF seeking to buy the ex-Middle-Eastern airforce Mirage 2000s. But it never materialized due to unknown reasons (at least i don't know the complete story)

Other wise, PAF was looking to buy Mirage 2000s in late 80s and early 90s, but again didn't go for it and set it's eyes on F-16s only and bought retired Mirage III/Vs from France and Australia. But that is a different topic.

M2K is a complex platfrom which requires higher maintenance than most similar platforms. go ask the Tiwanese. they want to pawn off their mirages and there are no buyers. the armee-del-air has a huge inventory of similar mirages with no takers. Brazil purchased a dozen mirages and now have retired them even after the upgrade.

PAF did look at this option but the cost was simply too high. Besides the acquisition cost, the Mirage 2000 is a ver maintenance oriented aircraft. There is a reason why Taiwan and Greece placed additional orders for the F16's but did not acquire additional Mirage 2000.

I wouldn't agree with the point that Mirage 2000s a was maintenance intensive platform, because these birds have exhibited excellent serviceability with the Indian Air Force in numerous occasions,especially during the Kargil war.

However,the cost of maintenance could've been high,and may be (not sure) the reason for which IAF didn't go for further orders of this bird.

This is what Dassault says about the cost of operation of its bird,