Capabilities of PAF Dassault MIRAGE-III/V.

[Basel]

There is no such thing as 'one size fits all'. Especially with assets which are tasked with high profile missions.

JF-17s cockpit layout, components are very very different. It has a way bigger cockpit compared to a Mirage. This means even the MFDs, PFDs are of larger size and will require some sort of further development to reduce size, maintain aperature, reduce motherboard sizes whilst maintaining capacity. We are not paying for R&D for this upgrade. This is an off the shelf solution which has already been developed for different Mirage and Cheetah variants.

However., there are many components that are homemade. APF has developed a very potent RWR which is currently being used by JF's and Mirages. There are thousands of components that make an aircraft, and we are looking at an approach that keeps the aircraft safe in the air.

Are we going to upgrade our mirages like Israel did with Kfir block-60 or better??

Israel is even going further by developing Kfir NG.
https://www.janes.com/article/89345...-return-sri-lanka-and-ecuador-jets-to-service

 

[Adam_Khan]

Are we going to upgrade our mirages like Israel did with Kfir block-60 or better??

Israel is even going further by developing Kfir NG.
https://www.janes.com/article/89345...-return-sri-lanka-and-ecuador-jets-to-service

It's highly unlikely that the upgrade would be that radical,our Mirages are attack oriented while the Kfirs carry Python 5 and Derby missiles coupled with Isreali HMS systems.

 

[Basel]

It's highly unlikely that the upgrade would be that radical,our Mirages are attack oriented while the Kfirs carry Python 5 and Derby missiles coupled with Isreali HMS systems.

We can have A-darter with SA HMD solution along with SD-10 with KLJ-7V2 or possibly air cooled low cost Chinese AESA, that combo will make it very potent as Mirages can carry bomb attached with fuel tanks which could be modified or redesigned to carry 2 BVR or WVR AAMs in BVR configuration REK can be used on outer hard points to carry 4 WVR AAMs allowing a 4 BVR and 4 WVR air to air capability.

 

[Adam_Khan]

We can have A-darter with SA HMD solution along with SD-10 with KLJ-7V2 or possibly air cooled low cost Chinese AESA, that combo will make it very potent as Mirages can carry bomb attached with fuel tanks which could be modified or redesigned to carry 2 BVR or WVR AAMs in BVR configuration REK can be used on outer hard points to carry 4 WVR AAMs allowing a 4 BVR and 4 WVR air to air capability.

That would be worth more than the price of a 50 year old air frame, also there are enough number of Bvr capable JF.17 and F.16's so don't think such an upgrade would ever be done however there is a need to upgrade the Mirages bought during the 70's with better Nav/attack systems.

 

[Basel]

That would be worth more than the price of a 50 year old air frame, also there are enough number of Bvr capable JF.17 and F.16's so don't think such an upgrade would ever be done however there is a need to upgrade the Mirages bought during the 70's with better Nav/attack systems.

Against a large enemy like India the number are always not enough. With zero time airframe what I mentioned is best option to have and SA can help us in that.

Why Kfir block-60 sell well as low cost F-16 also now its NG version is coming, that bird is also decades old too.

 

[syed_yusuf]

i think PAF is working on numbers too. and in that turn is trying to upgrade Mirage PA/PA2/PA3 to next version or ROSE i want to call is ROSE4. this will enhance and upgrade a fine machine of yesteryears to modern warfare effectiveness. if i am not wrong, PAF can get min 36 to 44 examples of single seat upgraded over next 2 years with modern cockpit, avionics and other goodies. could also enhance them with bvr capability. we don't have to upgrade the with aesa. for the role a new upgraded grifo S7 version will just do it.

 

[mingle]

i think PAF is working on numbers too. and in that turn is trying to upgrade Mirage PA/PA2/PA3 to next version or ROSE i want to call is ROSE4. this will enhance and upgrade a fine machine of yesteryears to modern warfare effectiveness. if i am not wrong, PAF can get min 36 to 44 examples of single seat upgraded over next 2 years with modern cockpit, avionics and other goodies. could also enhance them with bvr capability. we don't have to upgrade the with aesa. for the role a new upgraded grifo S7 version will just do it.

Why not new engine too maybe RD 93 or WS13 what Israel did with theior Mirage 5 putting F4 phantom engine

 

[syed_yusuf]

Why not new engine too maybe RD 93 or WS13 what Israel did with theior Mirage 5 putting F4 phantom engine

yes all of that is possible. but reality is different. i highly doubt PAF is looking to extract and upgrade more than they need. Look at Kafir blk60 where did it go. dit IAF bought it. did it sell in the market. we need to be bit realistic. in this day and age we need a fighter that is well connected with other assets, safe, if not cutting edge than relevant. even an upgraded mirage with relevant avionics could deliver a blowing punch. This is PAF not Bharathi Vyue sina. PAF lives in reality. I believe after the upgrades PAF will have 2 squadron equivalent of Rose I, 2 squadron of ROSE3 and now 2 squadron of ROSE -Next Gen. may be they can also upgrade ROSE 3 to ROSE Next Gen and retire ROSE 1 to support these 4 upgraded strike squadrons. i also believe PAF will be inducting some kind fo 5th Gen by mid of next decade that is 2025. PAF bought 28 single seat PA and 28 single seat PA2/3 Mirage 5's. if i am not wrong PAF still operates more than 40 of these PA/PA2/PA3. This also means that Mirage deal with egypt did not materialized.

after all PAF needs to keep 20 fighter squadrons and keep them all relevant vis-a-vis modern battlefield

 

[GriffinsRule]

I think as some other members have also opined, the upgrade should be to replace the antiquated avionics which are probably impossible to maintain now and not very effective. Similarly, Pakistan has so many different variants of Mirages, that makes training very complex as each type has gauges and dials in different locations and the cockpit layouts are different.
A new modernized glass cockpit will not only save time, money and streamline training, it also offers a huge safety factor.
Then there is the combat enhancements that come with better integration with your awacs using datalinks and significantly improve the pilots situational awareness. And that's not even counting newer radar or other systems. Overall a good move that should make these aircraft safer and cheaper to fly and maintain, while also improving the combat potential.

My wishlist; try making them with 2 piece glass canopies like the F-7PGs

 

[nomi007]

I think PAF plans for Mirages are very clear

 

[Max Pain]

Hi Araz,

Apologies for the delayed response.

This Mirage upgrade was initially negotiated with CATIC which didn't go through due to gaps in capability maturity of a few systems.

A South African is being appointed to carry out this upgrade to a limited number (around 2 sqns initially) of latest Mirage (with A2A capability)

It's a full avionics upgrade which includes;

i) Primary and multifunction displays
ii) ADCs (air data computers)
iii) Navigation integration
iv) INS (Intertial nagaition system)
v) VHF, UHF and HF secure comms
vii) Mission computers and stores management system
viii) All out weapons integration include precision guided A2G weapons, Stand off weapons, Anti ship capabilities with some new A2sea missiles and so on.

In short, its an all out upgradation of Mirage capability. I mentioned 2-3 weeks ago, Mirages are here to stay. I said it for a reason.

Mirage will serve as a dedicated strike platform due to its superior flying characteristics, decent payload and fleet wide availability.

This very well could be our first step towards a Pakistani Kfir Block 60.

Yes. We can practically manufacture a Mirage from scratch (minus the engine). Even though we have overhauled some Mirage engines upto 20 times over the past 40 years. But yes, the expertise is there.

As for capabilities, A2A is definitely not there since it requires a decent airborne intercept radar which is very expensive. SABR AESA of Block 70 was quoted to PAF at $2.8M when the assessment was done. More than the cost of an entire basic Mirage with all electronics.



Both



A little more lethal in terms of anti surface.

I read that The Atar Series of engines consume a lot of fuel and that can be understood from the fact that that tech started off from the 50's.

Does PAF plan on replacing the engine too in future or are they happy with the ATAR?

 

[syed_yusuf]

to attack sea targets upgraded mirage needs to have modern radar. dont have to be aesa but modern. may be lkf601e

 

[mingle]

I think PAF plans for Mirages are very clear

Probably will keep two to three Sqdns upgraded for deep strike rest will retire putting Oldman new limbs and even heart won't make him young his soul is old Mirages no matter what we do with them are old souls of late 50s

to attack sea targets upgraded mirage needs to have modern radar. dont have to be aesa but modern. may be lkf601e

Why not JF-17s AESA??

 

[Ultima Thule]

to attack sea targets upgraded mirage needs to have modern radar. dont have to be aesa but modern. may be lkf601e

Why not JF-17s AESA??

age will be the problem???

 

[mingle]

age will be the problem???

Well when you wana make Baba a young lad then give him new lungs Heart eyes and ears too just giving him limbs won't help