Capabilities of PAF Dassault MIRAGE-III/V.

[Dazzler]

Yes I know that, but on your post #2297, in which you posted that ...
ROSE-1 - All five Mirage IIIDPs, plus all 32 Australian singleseaters Mirage IIIO (100)
To which, I had posted that ...
Do you think that the Mirages-IIIDP's nose cone has enough space to house the Grifo-M3 radar? Isn't it's nose narrower than the single seater Miarge-IIIEA (also known as Mirage-IIIO)?
Your above post doesn't address what I was asking. Would appreciate if you could clarify that.
Thank you.

Mirage-IIIDP (Dual seat) ROSE-III aircraft, capable to perform day-night offensive and counter offensive operations. The aircraft are equipped with Forward Looking Infra-Red (FLIR) sensors.

 

[aliyusuf]

Mirage-IIIDP (Dual seat) ROSE-III aircraft, capable to perform day-night offensive and counter offensive operations. The aircraft are equipped with Forward Looking Infra-Red (FLIR) sensors.

So these 5 Mirage-IIIDP are ROSE-III air crafts, in addition to the 14 ROSE-III Mirage-VEF's ?

 

[MastanKhan]

Mk is like my way or highway

No it is not.
It is about showing concern. Focus on getting things right in a timely manner.

Standing together and understanding the level of threat presented by the enemy.

Making a joint stand and confronting our air force in a united manner and asking them why the the problems have not been resolved.

Rather than accepting their excuses and then justifying on their behalf, sucking upto the air force personal and preaching their story.

A nations strike force is nit built in that manner

 

[denel]

No it is not.
It is about showing concern. Focus on getting things right in a timely manner.

Standing together and understanding the level of threat presented by the enemy.

Making a joint stand and confronting our air force in a united manner and asking them why the the problems have not been resolved.

Rather than accepting their excuses and then justifying on their behalf, sucking upto the air force personal and preaching their story.

A nations strike force is nit built in that manner

You need a leader like our late PW Botha. The man galvanised everyone and talked the talk; things happened and huge leaps we made; we were working towards a common goal.

The idea of multirole has been misunderstood. People sometimes imagine that this means that an aircraft goes into a mission, kills a2a, performs a2g, or then kills a2a and comes back home to a hurrah!
Reality is this rarely ever happens. Aircraft that are performing a2g missions, keep to that mission, while (in some cases the same model of aircraft but a separate flock of aircraft) go in for an a2a role.
So you could have a flock of a2g JF-17s, and another flock of a2a JF-17s. They could re-arm and play another role, but most often, not during the same mission.

The other issue is training. Multirole pilots spend a portion of the time doing a2a training and another portion doing a2g. Sometimes this can be an 80/20 split, and sometimes it can be a 50/50 split. And many possible splits in between.

Truth a told, a flock of pilots that train 90% and above on a2a will be better at a2a than a flock of pilots doing 50/50 training.

The point I am trying to make here is that being multirole comes at a cost. We have to decide whether "the juice is worth the squeeze".
1. Less dedication to single role reduces pilot competency in multiple roles
2. Cost of training increases sharply, and wear and tear on the aircraft also increases
3. Multirole aircraft have been a trend. There is no reason that trends cannot be reversed. Bell-bottoms were also a great trend...

Mirages dedicated to a strike role can, at low cost and with great expertise (from being single role), play a critical role very efficiently. And by efficiently we mean get the job done at the lowest cost possible.

Ideally, an airforce should have dedicated aircraft, and multirole aircraft, just like a cricket team has dedicated batsmen and ballers, and also all rounders. Having a team of all all-rounders isn't effective or efficient.

People never learn from history - of not having dedicated role specific aircraft.

 

[MastanKhan]

The idea of multirole has been misunderstood. People sometimes imagine that this means that an aircraft goes into a mission, kills a2a, performs a2g, or then kills a2a and comes back home to a hurrah!
Reality is this rarely ever happens. Aircraft that are performing a2g missions, keep to that mission, while (in some cases the same model of aircraft but a separate flock of aircraft) go in for an a2a role.
So you could have a flock of a2g JF-17s, and another flock of a2a JF-17s. They could re-arm and play another role, but most often, not during the same mission.

The other issue is training. Multirole pilots spend a portion of the time doing a2a training and another portion doing a2g. Sometimes this can be an 80/20 split, and sometimes it can be a 50/50 split. And many possible splits in between.

Truth a told, a flock of pilots that train 90% and above on a2a will be better at a2a than a flock of pilots doing 50/50 training.

The point I am trying to make here is that being multirole comes at a cost. We have to decide whether "the juice is worth the squeeze".
1. Less dedication to single role reduces pilot competency in multiple roles
2. Cost of training increases sharply, and wear and tear on the aircraft also increases
3. Multirole aircraft have been a trend. There is no reason that trends cannot be reversed. Bell-bottoms were also a great trend...

Mirages dedicated to a strike role can, at low cost and with great expertise (from being single role), play a critical role very efficiently. And by efficiently we mean get the job done at the lowest cost possible.

Ideally, an airforce should have dedicated aircraft, and multirole aircraft, just like a cricket team has dedicated batsmen and ballers, and also all rounders. Having a team of all all-rounders isn't effective or efficient.

Hi,

Thank you for an excellent post---POST OF THE MONTH and people like you get banned---amazing---.

Army has that and so does the navy---. It means then that there is an issue with the fly boys---.

 

[MystryMan]

At Red Flag, it was seen that low level strike still works but with a steady incidence of casualties. So you aren't off the mark with your comment. A serving PAF officer wrote a paper where he looked at using UCAVs instead.

I think PAF doesn't truly want to lose deep penetration low level striks. I think they want to use the Mirages with standoff munitions and leave it at that. Not unlike how it was used on the 27th Feb.

Welcome back bro.
Every weapon has certain release altitude range and when M3/M5 do that they become visible to the enemy, and if a hostile CAP is directed toward them then chances of their coming back to base safely reduce specially if they have to stay for guiding the weapon. So the strike aircraft will need EW/ESM support (to fool the ground-based radars/AWACS and make the task difficult for incoming interceptors).

 

[Chak Bamu]

Tell me wtf is arrogant about it.

The enemy has surrounded us from all sides, made us lose our friends, and all you have ti is bitch and moan about my post.

You incompetent kids are the true enemies of pakistan.

As long as you people live with this mindset india does not have to worry.

Go focus on finding fighter / strike aircraft and make a 32 out the negative rating and take it.

Friggins traitors. Enemy is knocking down the doors and incompetent dont like my tone—-go find some weapons.

I could write a few paragraphs, but that would be severely off topic. So, I will not engage you on this. I would just caution you (for the umpteenth time) that I am not a 'kid' you imbecile, geriatric, arrogant, snooty, psycho. You have a sick siege mentality (even though you live in USA) and you want Pakistan to waste resources on everything under the sun. It ain't the middle ages so your analogies do not quite work. Everybody and their dog knows that modern diplomacy & warfare is about economic strength, but here we have a fricking Einstein telling us that we are surrounded by enemy and we MUST throw clothes off our backs into the fire. Are you drunk most of the time? Do you not have a pair to neurons to make the connection that you are advocating failed security-centered policies that have got Pakistan where it is today?

Here is an anecdote from mid-90s: I asked my Bangladeshi friend Jami if he ever worried that India would consume his country. His response was telling: India would not want 10 million Bangladeshis with rifles at the border. You may make fun of this however you want, but he had a point. No country would risk its economic well-being & stability to actively make war. That is the whole damn point that you fail to get every single time you write. Pakistan's interest demands it to be in a position to inflict prohibitive losses on enemy. Pakistan has always been in that position, but the likes of you never ever get it.

I am all for Mirages & leased JH-7As if that means that we spend less money and stay in a position to inflict unacceptable losses. But obsession with parity vis-a-vis India is a major miscalculation that has been taken to a ridiculous extreme.

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

Well I think at time of grave danger to Pakistan, as a Pakistani the most important thing we should realize is respect our own voices.

The February small skirmish, showcased the alert level of Pakistan Air force and their response was measurable and sufficient to let enemy know we are not to be taken lightly

My personal view , while not taking sides with anyone is that I do feel Pakistan "is being cornered"
That statement has some reality and realism to it which is not false.

So let me understand the argument

a) Is Mirage a viable platform , which can be further enhanced to cheetah level?
b) We need to opt for newer models from China , likely J10 C or Twin Engine birds China is mass producing

We "economic" strength does comes into play when it comes to National Defence Needs

Arguments which are inline with our Financial Strength

Looking at what KAMRA , mirage rebuild factory has achieved , we can be assured that any additional Mirage will also under go the same magical transformation as any other birds and it would be cost effective, so from a financial stand point this option is great

a) We know we can upgrade the radars
b) We know we can load up weapons on the birds
c) These birds can play a vital role for A2G missions

No harm if we get them


Arguments for Modernization

Well we need to move with the times , regardless of our upgrades we need to understand we need modern generation crafts to ensure the technological difference does not becomes too immense during the War time

• J10D Chinese birds , are modern iteration of flying machines which is worth considering
• Sweedish Gripens are a modest single Engine , technologically loaded crafts which are also great European option
• F16 if we can get used C/D models sure great plus
• F16V promise is just a promise at present

If it was me I would have ordered 100 J10C already

 

[MastanKhan]

I could write a few paragraphs, but that would be severely off topic. So, I will not engage you on this. I would just caution you (for the umpteenth time) that I am not a 'kid' you imbecile, geriatric, arrogant, snooty, psycho. You have a sick siege mentality (even though you live in USA) and you want Pakistan to waste resources on everything under the sun. It ain't the middle ages so your analogies do not quite work. Everybody and their dog knows that modern diplomacy & warfare is about economic strength, but here we have a fricking Einstein telling us that we are surrounded by enemy and we MUST throw clothes off our backs into the fire. Are you drunk most of the time? Do you not have a pair to neurons to make the connection that you are advocating failed security-centered policies that have got Pakistan where it is today?

Here is an anecdote from mid-90s: I asked my Bangladeshi friend Jami if he ever worried that India would consume his country. His response was telling: India would not want 10 million Bangladeshis with rifles at the border. You may make fun of this however you want, but he had a point. No country would risk its economic well-being & stability to actively make war. That is the whole damn point that you fail to get every single time you write. Pakistan's interest demands it to be in a position to inflict prohibitive losses on enemy. Pakistan has always been in that position, but the likes of you never ever get it.

I am all for Mirages & leased JH-7As if that means that we spend less money and stay in a position to inflict unacceptable losses. But obsession with parity vis-a-vis India is a major miscalculation that has been taken to a ridiculous extreme.

Hi,

You had no reason to butt in---, Bacha devay gaan tay bund patay dhagay di---janab---. what are you jumping up and down for---.

and yes---why don't you write something---why don't you write a few paragraphs that have some substance to the defense needs of the country---.

 

[Ghessan]

we have a problem with high ego, won't serve ourselves won't serve the country.

 

[ali_raza]

Hi,

You had no reason to butt in---, Bacha devay gaan tay bund patay dhagay di---janab---. what are you jumping up and down for---.

and yes---why don't you write something---why don't you write a few paragraphs that have some substance to the defense needs of the country---.

hahahaha we need proper translation on that topic @Khafee

 

[mshan44]

 

[FOOLS_NIGHTMARE]

View attachment 576655

I love my BABAS(vintage Mirages) more than anything we have.What a formidable aircraft,still uncatchable at Mach 2 and a reliable bomb truck.

 

[Imran Khan]

Well I think at time of grave danger to Pakistan, as a Pakistani the most important thing we should realize is respect our own voices.

The February small skirmish, showcased the alert level of Pakistan Air force and their response was measurable and sufficient to let enemy know we are not to be taken lightly

My personal view , while not taking sides with anyone is that I do feel Pakistan "is being cornered"
That statement has some reality and realism to it which is not false.

So let me understand the argument

a) Is Mirage a viable platform , which can be further enhanced to cheetah level?
b) We need to opt for newer models from China , likely J10 C or Twin Engine birds China is mass producing

We "economic" strength does comes into play when it comes to National Defence Needs

Arguments which are inline with our Financial Strength

Looking at what KAMRA , mirage rebuild factory has achieved , we can be assured that any additional Mirage will also under go the same magical transformation as any other birds and it would be cost effective, so from a financial stand point this option is great

a) We know we can upgrade the radars
b) We know we can load up weapons on the birds
c) These birds can play a vital role for A2G missions

No harm if we get them


Arguments for Modernization

Well we need to move with the times , regardless of our upgrades we need to understand we need modern generation crafts to ensure the technological difference does not becomes too immense during the War time

• J10D Chinese birds , are modern iteration of flying machines which is worth considering
• Sweedish Gripens are a modest single Engine , technologically loaded crafts which are also great European option
• F16 if we can get used C/D models sure great plus
• F16V promise is just a promise at present

If it was me I would have ordered 100 J10C already

its j-10 sir not halwa puri order for breakfast

 

[gangsta_rap]

You incompetent kids are the true enemies of pakistan.

Thank the almighty that most folks from your day didnt think like you.