Capabilities of PAF Dassault MIRAGE-III/V.

[Readerdefence]

If you are talking about Egyptian mirages, than those are already at higher upgrade level than any of ROSE.
Those who are not, will be cannibalized.

Hi BATMAN any info about their upgrade package or any link will be appreciated
Thank you

 

[BATMAN]

Hi BATMAN any info about their upgrade package or any link will be appreciated
Thank you

I think Horus upgrade has RC400 radar, BVR able, HMD, HUD, hardpoint for Jaming /targeting pod. all what 4th generation fighter should have!

 

[Readerdefence]

I think Horus upgrade has RC400 radar, BVR able, HMD, HUD, hardpoint for Jaming /targeting pod. all what 4th generation fighter should have!

Hi thx for your reply

 

[Pakistani Fighter]

I think Horus upgrade has RC400 radar, BVR able, HMD, HUD, hardpoint for Jaming /targeting pod. all what 4th generation fighter should have!

Can Metoer be integerated on it?

 

[denel]

I wouldn't discard Mirages on age, F-16 is old platform and so is A-10, if there is life in the airframe and we can keep it upto date with latest avionics we should do it until and unless we are sufficient enough to replace it with JF-17 or some other platform, it's about ROI how much we are getting in return for what we are spending

You must remember the time frame and materials used with the original airframes; there is only so much you can do before it goes. Cheetah had newer airframes with newer material alloys to start with making it a zero hour.

OMG, why don’t you give it a rest, we will never get JH-7A. Unless Chinese redesign it like below picture.

View attachment 555060

It is not about style but fitment to purpose. It does the job plus it is with spey engines.
mastan is correct; they are stuck in a hole and cannot think out of the box away from a Mirage or f-16; it is a blessing that someone had the foresight to pursue jf-17 but i can only imagine what that person would have been through heckling and nightmare by an inbred mafia who never want to change status quo because it does not feed their corrupt pockets.

Considering the budget crunch, do you still believe the JH-7A is the best option for the PAF, or should it try to go for something else? The PAF did fly with it in many exercises.

Would trying to convince the Saudis to sell their Tornados (at a reasonable price) be a better option? They operate 81 Tornados IDS (Strike variant) and buying the whole lot with infrastructure, spares, and munitions should offer a formidable strike platform that can serve for up to another two decades. The tornado has the legs for relatively long range naval strike as well as deep strike into enemy territory; where we can launch PGMs into denied air space guarded by modern air defenses. The Tornados would also keep Pakistan's Fleet diversified in terms of suppliers; considering the new Leonardo office being setup in Islamabad and our generally decent relations with the UK, the Saudi Clout could allow us to buy a lot of spares and advanced munitions before any new hostiles and potential halt to supplies.

The Saudis plan to retire their Tornados in 2020 and will probably sell them back to the UK as they did with their ADV (Air Defense Version) Tornados back in 2007. The IDS planes were upgraded in 2006 to the GR4 Standard and are currently seeing action over Yemen. If Pakistan can convince the Saudi to sell or gift the Tornados to Pakistan (MBS did say to consider him the Ambassador of Pakistan to Saudi Arabia), its worth a try to try to get these 80 planes.


In what way were the JH-7A found to be lacking? Would the Saudi Tornados be a better option if the PAF can acquire them? (Saudis plan to retire them in 2020 and they operate 81 strike variant Tornados upgraded approximately 10 years ago)

Tornado is a good option but remember maintenance on a swingwing is pretty hefty. British aircraft need a lot of hand holding and entire new workstream need to be opened.

Question comes whether it can carry all the strategic options and will there be any components that require TIT's signoff. Again sanctions need to be kept in mind.

Max payload capacity of Mirage V is 4000 kg with Mach 2.2 speed while J-10C has a max payload capacity of 6000 kg with Mach 2 speed. So Mirages should be replaced with J-10Cs.

correction. Mach 2 speeds is not possible with full loaded.

 

[jupiter2007]

You must remember the time frame and materials used with the original airframes; there is only so much you can do before it goes. Cheetah had newer airframes with newer material alloys to start with making it a zero hour.


It is not about style but fitment to purpose. It does the job plus it is with spey engines.
mastan is correct; they are stuck in a hole and cannot think out of the box away from a Mirage or f-16; it is a blessing that someone had the foresight to pursue jf-17 but i can only imagine what that person would have been through heckling and nightmare by an inbred mafia who never want to change status quo because it does not feed their corrupt pockets.


Tornado is a good option but remember maintenance on a swingwing is pretty hefty. British aircraft need a lot of hand holding and entire new workstream need to be opened.

Question comes whether it can carry all the strategic options and will there be any components that require TIT's signoff. Again sanctions need to be kept in mind.


correction. Mach 2 speeds is not possible with full loaded.

Only option is to double JF -17 production to replace older planes.
For Stop gap purpose until 5th gen ready: surplus F-16 (if available), Typhoon from Italy if available, Su-35 if offered with AESA Radar, Chinese option is always there.

 

[denel]

Only option is to double JF -17 production to replace older planes.
For Stop gap purpose until 5th gen ready: surplus F-16 (if available), Typhoon from Italy if available, Su-35 if offered with AESA Radar, Chinese option is always there.

concur. plus taken up blk4 specs

 

[Maxpane]

You must remember the time frame and materials used with the original airframes; there is only so much you can do before it goes. Cheetah had newer airframes with newer material alloys to start with making it a zero hour.

sir what happened to cheetahs?

 

[MastanKhan]

Considering the budget crunch, do you still believe the JH-7A is the best option for the PAF, or should it try to go for something else? The PAF did fly with it in many exercises.

Would trying to convince the Saudis to sell their Tornados (at a reasonable price) be a better option? They operate 81 Tornados IDS (Strike variant) and buying the whole lot with infrastructure, spares, and munitions should offer a formidable strike platform that can serve for up to another two decades. The tornado has the legs for relatively long range naval strike as well as deep strike into enemy territory; where we can launch PGMs into denied air space guarded by modern air defenses. The Tornados would also keep Pakistan's Fleet diversified in terms of suppliers; considering the new Leonardo office being setup in Islamabad and our generally decent relations with the UK, the Saudi Clout could allow us to buy a lot of spares and advanced munitions before any new hostiles and potential halt to supplies.

The Saudis plan to retire their Tornados in 2020 and will probably sell them back to the UK as they did with their ADV (Air Defense Version) Tornados back in 2007. The IDS planes were upgraded in 2006 to the GR4 Standard and are currently seeing action over Yemen. If Pakistan can convince the Saudi to sell or gift the Tornados to Pakistan (MBS did say to consider him the Ambassador of Pakistan to Saudi Arabia), its worth a try to try to get these 80 planes.


In what way were the JH-7A found to be lacking? Would the Saudi Tornados be a better option if the PAF can acquire them? (Saudis plan to retire them in 2020 and they operate 81 strike variant Tornados upgraded approximately 10 years ago)

Hi,

If it can carry two 1000 kg missiles---it might be suitable---. British tech needs a lots of maintenance---.

How did the A5 Fantan made thru the ROI---?

 

[denel]

Hi,

If it can carry two 1000 kg missiles---it might be suitable---. British tech needs a lots of maintenance---.

How did the A5 Fantan made thru the ROI---?

hit the nail on the head with a5!!!

 

[untitled]

sir what happened to cheetahs?

Sold to the US (as aggressors) and got replaced by Gripens in South African service

 

[denel]

Sold to the US (as aggressors) and got replaced by Gripens in South African service

Bulk went to Ecuador as well to co-exist with their kfir fleet.

You can't go ahead and simply dismiss SAGEM's work on these mirages

 

[SQ8]

Oscar.
Do you have any info on why PAF did not go down the upgraded Mirage route even in early 2000s when it was a suitable option given dearth of suitable platforms that could be procured?
A

Till the Earthquake the idea was for JF-17 ramp-up to replace F-7s - 36 block 52s and additional AM/BMs to bring F-16s to 100. Then add about 36 to 48 FC-20 as strike aircraft(since the French would not sell us the M2k and other operators werent ready to part with theirs yet)
So by 2020: 100 F-16, 150 JF-17, 48 J-10 & 48 F-7pG.. a pretty decent force.

Then the earthquake happened so -18 F-16 and J-10 but delayed is the right term. Focus was still on getting second hand F-16s to keep the multirole aspect going.

But the true disaster was PPP government and the rape of Pakistan.
As I oft say, the PAF could not even pay interest on the fairly soft loans it had for other procurement.

Additionally, some 5-10% is normal to be lost in corruption and inefficiency within the PAF.

Considering the budget crunch, do you still believe the JH-7A is the best option for the PAF, or should it try to go for something else? The PAF did fly with it in many exercises.

Would trying to convince the Saudis to sell their Tornados (at a reasonable price) be a better option? They operate 81 Tornados IDS (Strike variant) and buying the whole lot with infrastructure, spares, and munitions should offer a formidable strike platform that can serve for up to another two decades. The tornado has the legs for relatively long range naval strike as well as deep strike into enemy territory; where we can launch PGMs into denied air space guarded by modern air defenses. The Tornados would also keep Pakistan's Fleet diversified in terms of suppliers; considering the new Leonardo office being setup in Islamabad and our generally decent relations with the UK, the Saudi Clout could allow us to buy a lot of spares and advanced munitions before any new hostiles and potential halt to supplies.

The Saudis plan to retire their Tornados in 2020 and will probably sell them back to the UK as they did with their ADV (Air Defense Version) Tornados back in 2007. The IDS planes were upgraded in 2006 to the GR4 Standard and are currently seeing action over Yemen. If Pakistan can convince the Saudi to sell or gift the Tornados to Pakistan (MBS did say to consider him the Ambassador of Pakistan to Saudi Arabia), its worth a try to try to get these 80 planes.


In what way were the JH-7A found to be lacking? Would the Saudi Tornados be a better option if the PAF can acquire them? (Saudis plan to retire them in 2020 and they operate 81 strike variant Tornados upgraded approximately 10 years ago)

The JH-7 was a singular strike platform that was found to be adding a greater payload capacity and some A2A but underpowered and maintenance heavy.
Additionally it would be obsolete by today(as it is still a 1960s design philosophy) but would incur an additional five years to learn the type, create a logistics pipeline and ensure operational integrity.

It also wasn’t “cheap” either, initial costs were going to be only slightly lower than inducting a J-10 variant which offered more capabilities per pound along with future-proofed.

 

[Quwa]

Till the Earthquake the idea was for JF-17 ramp-up to replace F-7s - 36 block 52s and additional AM/BMs to bring F-16s to 100. Then add about 36 to 48 FC-20 as strike aircraft(since the French would not sell us the M2k and other operators werent ready to part with theirs yet)
So by 2020: 100 F-16, 150 JF-17, 48 J-10 & 48 F-7pG.. a pretty decent force.

Then the earthquake happened so -18 F-16 and J-10 but delayed is the right term. Focus was still on getting second hand F-16s to keep the multirole aspect going.

But the true disaster was PPP government and the rape of Pakistan.
As I oft say, the PAF could not even pay interest on the fairly soft loans it had for other procurement.

Additionally, some 5-10% is normal to be lost in corruption and inefficiency within the PAF.



The JH-7 was a singular strike platform that was found to be adding a greater payload capacity and some A2A but underpowered and maintenance heavy.
Additionally it would be obsolete by today(as it is still a 1960s design philosophy) but would incur an additional five years to learn the type, create a logistics pipeline and ensure operational integrity.

It also wasn’t “cheap” either, initial costs were going to be only slightly lower than inducting a J-10 variant which offered more capabilities per pound along with future-proofed.

Pre-earthquake Lockheed Martin scoped that the PAF could push its Block-52+ purchases to 55 aircraft. I suspect had it not been for the earthquake, the DSCA request would've been 36 planes + 18 optional.

Truly, 110 F-16s (Block-52/MLU) and 40 M2K-5 (if even used) would've been a sharp spear-tip, especially with 150 JF-17s with the Thales/MBDA package, which probably included the TopOwl-F HMD/S and a HOBS AAM via ASRAAM or IRIS-T (which were conspicuously shown at IDEAS 2006).

 

[Army research]

Pre-earthquake Lockheed Martin scoped that the PAF could push its Block-52+ purchases to 55 aircraft. I suspect had it not been for the earthquake, the DSCA request would've been 36 planes + 18 optional.

Truly, 110 F-16s (Block-52/MLU) and 40 M2K-5 (if even used) would've been a sharp spear-tip, especially with 150 JF-17s with the Thales/MBDA package, which probably included the TopOwl-F HMD/S and a HOBS AAM via ASRAAM or IRIS-T (which were conspicuously shown at IDEAS 2006).

But sir aaj bhi bhutto zinda hai, worth more than all the goodies you mentioned , just wait a few years and tharparkar will beat the living standards of copenhagen and Vienna